Sukhoi Su 30MKI

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If they are going to be making a new production run it doesn't make sense to produce the obsolete version.
Yes, it makes perfect sense to order the additional aircraft in newer config.
But knowing how Indian bureaucracy works, one shouldn't be surprised (even if one is enraged) if all the additional jets are of the old Su-30MKI configuration - because additional aircraft being ordered is per the original agreement that dictates the price, config etc.
Smarter & prudent way would be to expedite the Super Sukhoi upgrade agreement and as part of that agreement order additional aircraft!
 

no smoking

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Heard of GTX 37-14U and GTX 37-14UB ?
How many GTX37-14U and GTX37-14UB were produced to power fighter jets?
How many hours of ground tests did these 2 run?
How many hours of high altitude test did these 2 take?

Based on US & Russa's experience, design & producing prototype is only about 10% of the whole project, ground & high altitude represent about 25-35%, the rest is all in the stage of being stalled on the fighter jet, which is also the main period that most of troubles show up.
 

Chinmoy

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How many GTX37-14U and GTX37-14UB were produced to power fighter jets?
How many hours of ground tests did these 2 run?
How many hours of high altitude test did these 2 take?

Based on US & Russa's experience, design & producing prototype is only about 10% of the whole project, ground & high altitude represent about 25-35%, the rest is all in the stage of being stalled on the fighter jet, which is also the main period that most of troubles show up.
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

How many fighters or planes did India designed to start with?
India had followed the path of license production and stayed true to it unlike someone near enough who are notorious for industrial espionage. Although it had not worked fine for India in long run.

To use an indigenous engine, one needs to have a indigenous platform to use it. Tell me one nation who produces a jet engine but don't have a home grown jet program to use it. So you see, India too has started from scratch long back in 1950s itself. But it is absence of political will and money which has constrained the effort.

BTW one more arrest was made in US on industrial espionage case. A foreign employ of Apple was charged on design theft of a stealth unmaned vehicle Apple was working on. Do you know who was he and where from he got job offer before doing the theft? :hehe:
 

lcafanboy

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:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

How many fighters or planes did India designed to start with?
India had followed the path of license production and stayed true to it unlike someone near enough who are notorious for industrial espionage. Although it had not worked fine for India in long run.

To use an indigenous engine, one needs to have a indigenous platform to use it. Tell me one nation who produces a jet engine but don't have a home grown jet program to use it. So you see, India too has started from scratch long back in 1950s itself. But it is absence of political will and money which has constrained the effort.

BTW one more arrest was made in US on industrial espionage case. A foreign employ of Apple was charged on design theft of a stealth unmaned vehicle Apple was working on. Do you know who was he and where from he got job offer before doing the theft? :hehe:
Trump has caught the tail of Lizard and is playing with it before throwing it back into the water.:biggrin2:
 

no smoking

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:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

How many fighters or planes did India designed to start with?
India had followed the path of license production and stayed true to it unlike someone near enough who are notorious for industrial espionage. Although it had not worked fine for India in long run.

To use an indigenous engine, one needs to have a indigenous platform to use it. Tell me one nation who produces a jet engine but don't have a home grown jet program to use it. So you see, India too has started from scratch long back in 1950s itself. But it is absence of political will and money which has constrained the effort.

BTW one more arrest was made in US on industrial espionage case. A foreign employ of Apple was charged on design theft of a stealth unmaned vehicle Apple was working on. Do you know who was he and where from he got job offer before doing the theft? :hehe:
So, after all these pretty words, there is only one thing related to the discussion here: unlike what Indian fanboys believe, the reason of Kaveri trouble is it did get started from scratch.
 

vampyrbladez

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So, after all these pretty words, there is only one thing related to the discussion here: unlike what Indian fanboys believe, the reason of Kaveri trouble is it did get started from scratch.
You have to start somewhere. If all goes well, Tejas MK2 will be a product like Gripen E in next decade. HOwever we need an ecosystem to complement that. Building up private companies on the backbone of PSUs in India will achieve this.

There is also the issue of fast changing technological needs. No one will give you tech unless you do JV with massive investment. China did so in 1990s which is why it has achieved self sufficiency in defence albeit technological challenges remain with respect to US, Russia and Europe.





P.S: Request mods to move discussion of non Su 30 MKI topics to appropriate threads. DON'T DERAIL THIS THREAD!

@Virendra @Dovah
 

Chinmoy

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So, after all these pretty words, there is only one thing related to the discussion here: unlike what Indian fanboys believe, the reason of Kaveri trouble is it did get started from scratch.
Yes.... India started its Jet Engine program from scratch. It just didn't stole the tech from others as someone who is notorious for that.
 

chetan chopade

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can anybody give me some idea about...

the difference/ similarities between,
1. SU-30 MKI being "manufactured" by HAL
2. JF-17 thunder being "manufactured" by PAC

are they (hal and pac) only assembling kits imported from china?
level of indigenous components (in %)
technology transfer (in %)
etc.
 

patriots

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can anybody give me some idea about...

the difference/ similarities between,
1. SU-30 MKI being "manufactured" by HAL
2. JF-17 thunder being "manufactured" by PAC

are they (hal and pac) only assembling kits imported from china?
level of indigenous components (in %)
technology transfer (in %)
etc.
No su 30 mki has indigenous content....I hv forgotten the percentage though
 

Immanuel

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48 Super MKI from Nashik is more than welcome, let's be smart and make them all Brahmos-able.

Also if the recent uptick in hostilities, it is imperative Govt. push for quick induction of Nirbhay and other new gen weapons.
 

Advaidhya Tiwari

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can anybody give me some idea about...

the difference/ similarities between,
1. SU-30 MKI being "manufactured" by HAL
2. JF-17 thunder being "manufactured" by PAC

are they (hal and pac) only assembling kits imported from china?
level of indigenous components (in %)
technology transfer (in %)
etc.
In Su30 made in India, India is having almost 100% indigenous technology. Only a few technology like IRST is from Russia. Engine, Radar, avionics etc are all India made with full indigenisation. Some royalty payment like imports of nuts, bolts etc at high cost is done.

In case of JF17, it is imported from China and assembled in Pakistan. All important components like Radar, engine, avionics are Chinese or Russian (engine is Russian). Pakistan only does paint job and othee easier things
 

chetan chopade

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In Su30 made in India, India is having almost 100% indigenous technology. Only a few technology like IRST is from Russia. Engine, Radar, avionics etc are all India made with full indigenisation. Some royalty payment like imports of nuts, bolts etc at high cost is done.

In case of JF17, it is imported from China and assembled in Pakistan. All important components like Radar, engine, avionics are Chinese or Russian (engine is Russian). Pakistan only does paint job and othee easier things
do you have any source/link?...................................
 

Advaidhya Tiwari

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Here is the link to my explanation about Al31FP being made in India:
https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...supersonic-fighter.76545/page-13#post-1450905

Read the entire threads after this as many people had many questions to ask and they have been answered in the thread. You were part of this thread xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx How many times should anyone tell the same thing again and again?

About why SCB is not used in Kaveri, I have again told that Rhenium is the reason. SCB has 3 generations. The first generation does not need Rhenium but the second and third generation needs rhenium. Al31FP definitely uses 1st gen SCB or DS blades. The first and second generation DS don't require rhenium. The second generation DSB also performs better than first generation SCB. More has been discussed in this forum itself. I will give the thread for it:



_________________________________________________________________________________________

Even when AMCA is to be made, it will be made with 2nd generation DS with some compromise on engine life and TWR instead of using 2nd or 3rd generation SCB which will be hard to make and can be subject to embargoes during war. 100-110kN engines are used even in older planes like F15 which uses PW100 without any rhenium. So, some compromise of TWR in return for high quantity manufacturing is definitely welcome step.

Manufacturing under license from raw material is called ToT! As long as manufacturing is done in India, it is ToT. ToT does not mean that Russia should teach Indians metallurgy course! And engine metallurgy came to artillery thread because you poked the topic of metallurgy.

Mod: Post edited. Avoid over reaction.
This is something I have explained in over 100 posts. I am too tired to repost the sources. Read the above post and follow the sources as given in the link of the different posts in the Kaveri engine thread of this forum.

I will post the link again-
https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...supersonic-fighter.76545/page-13#post-1450905

do you have any source/link?...................................
 

no smoking

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can anybody give me some idea about...

the difference/ similarities between,
1. SU-30 MKI being "manufactured" by HAL
2. JF-17 thunder being "manufactured" by PAC
JF-17 was designed for Pak specifically, they participated the work from beginning.
SU-30 MKI is a Russian jet modified for the India request.
 

Enquirer

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JF-17 was designed for Pak specifically, they participated the work from beginning.
SU-30 MKI is a Russian jet modified for the India request.
There's more Indian content in Su-30MKI than there is Paki content in JF-17.
Su-30MKI's flight computer is totally desi & much of the aircraft is manufactured in India!!
JF-17 is supplied in kits, that Pakis assemble!
 

Indx TechStyle

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JF-17 was designed for Pak specifically, they participated the work from beginning.
SU-30 MKI is a Russian jet modified for the India request.
So, what did they contribute?
I can't find any except mission software. For rest, its an upgraded MiG-21 because Pak can't afford better.
 

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