Sino-Indo Netizen Debate Contest DFI -GTF initiative follow some points here...

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please note the quotes from specific usernames....


jodeexue
GTF Team

Sino-Indo Netizen Debate Contest



----Jointly held by Defence Forum of India and Global Times Forum

Hello everyone,

Here comes the second Sino-Indo Netizen Debate Contest. Different from the previous one, this time we invite Defence Forum of India to organize the contest with us and hope such cooperation will promote both forums in the future. The debate is a two-round modal, i.e. the first round will be held here in GT forum this week and the second round in DFI forum next week (exact time of the second round will be notified before the end of the first round). Debaters switch sides in the second round.

The topic of today is “Do you think mutual distrust is the major obstacle for the bilateral relations between China and India”

Affirmative: Alex_band, tarunraju, known unknown,
Negative: Avi, Riversouth, morimomo, nimo.cn, oliverty, luke, youyou33

Pay Attention to the rules:
1) Be on Topic
2) You can be aggressive but can’t be abusive

April 1, 2010 is the 60th anniversary of China-India establishing diplomatic relations and hope such civil activities between two countries will promote mutual understanding.

on behalf of DFI we wish all the members of GTF and its team best of luck also cheers to our team of member taking part in the contest

 

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riversouth
GTF Debater

Our point is:
Mutual distrust is not a major obstacle for Sino-India relations.
First of all, there are many obstacles for Sino-India relations that are more important than distrust. For example, territorial disputes, religion issue and Tibet problem (with Dalai as a symbol). A further example of obstacles for Sino-India relations is the two nations’ ambition to be a leader for the third world countries. All these problems are much more sensitive and critical than distrust. In other words, these sensitive issues outweighed the significance and implication of distrust.
In addition, mutual distrust is the result of clash of strategic interests between China and India and not the contrary. It is the clash and conflict of national interests that generated distrust between the two nations. For example, the territorial conflict is a sensitive issue both in China and India. It is not in the interests of the two nations to give up their claim for the disputed areas. Moreover, it will hurt the feeling of Chinese or Indian people if either side attempts to abandon claim for the disputed areas. To put it in another way, it can be said the confrontation between this issues is structurally unsolvable because this issue concern the core interests of the two nations. Even if China and India trust each other totally, the clash of interest (e.g. territorial disputes) is hardly possible to tackle.

 

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follow the full debate on gtf main points here

Luke
GTF Debater

Totally agree with riversouth.The problems between China and India is
that we have too many interest conlicts，it's the problems lead to the distrust between us.If we can't solve it at first，I can't see we can trust each other.So only when we solve our conflict of interest ，we can have comfortable relationships.


As we all know，China and Pakistan have good relationships.There‘s one important reason：we solve our land dispute，so we can help each other respond to the threat of India.And Pakistan also don't tolerate Xinjiang Separatist forces activity in Pakistan.She don't have big interest conlict with China，and China and Pakistan defend our respective interests together.

 

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oliveryty
GTF Debater

In my opinion, China and India is hardly friends, and it is not trust or distrust decides the biliteral relationship. It is the national interest decides the biliteral relationship.

In the perspect of Geopolitik, China and India are both regional big powers. They will not surrender to each other in the leadership over Asia.

China needs oil now and India lays military forces on China's oil path, ie, the Malaca Strait. India also worries about China's investment in its neighbors like Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Nepal.

In the aspect of regional cooperation, India is only an observer to the Shanghai Cooperative Organization, which is initiated by China. India wishes no full participation.

There are also un-settled border disputes and the essential disputes in treating Dalai Lama.

Added to the above is the ideology. India is proud to be a pioneer in Asian democracy. It sees China a non-democratic country and thus a rival.

There are also cooperation between India and China like what happened in Davos World Economic Forum and UN Climate Summit. As both being developing countries they wish to voice for the rights of the developing countries. But this is more of a show rather than crutial interest.

In summary, it is not a problem of whether trust each other or not. It is the national interest of both the countries that decides the biliteral relationship. The national interest decides that they can't trust each other at all.

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tarunraju
DFI Debater




Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke
As we all know，China and Pakistan have good relationships.There‘s one important reason：we solve our land dispute，so we can help each other respond to the threat of India.And Pakistan also don't tolerate Xinjiang Separatist forces activity in Pakistan.She don't have big interest conlict with China，and China and Pakistan defend our respective interests together.

And what 'land disputes' are these? Them dropping claims over land that doesn't belong to them (NE Kashmir) to China?

Settlement of land disputes can happen both ways. Settlement doesn't always have to mean China gaining territory.

There's a conflict of interests with India because if there's any Asian country can qualitatively and quantitatively pose tough economic competition to China and its people (not amounting to conflict as in war), it is India. If China expects to eliminate India's competitiveness as prerequisite for peace (which it does), then these conflicts of interests by design will never end.

Since China is the larger player here, it should proactively tackle India and drop claims to territory that India administers, and has been administering since day one of its formation as the Republic of India. In return India will be more open with its market for Chinese commodities. This is one opportunity that Pakistan and its cash-starved economy that survives on foreign aid simply cannot give China.

 

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Known_Unknown
DFI Debater



Quote:
In my opinion, China and India is hardly friends, and it is not trust or distrust decides the biliteral relationship. It is the national interest decides the biliteral relationship.

In the perspect of Geopolitik, China and India are both regional big powers. They will not surrender to each other in the leadership over Asia.

China needs oil now and India lays military forces on China's oil path, ie, the Malaca Strait. India also worries about China's investment in its neighbors like Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Nepal.

In the aspect of regional cooperation, India is only an observer to the Shanghai Cooperative Organization, which is initiated by China. India wishes no full participation.

There are also un-settled border disputes and the essential disputes in treating Dalai Lama.

Added to the above is the ideology. India is proud to be a pioneer in Asian democracy. It sees China a non-democratic country and thus a rival.

There are also cooperation between India and China like what happened in Davos World Economic Forum and UN Climate Summit. As both being developing countries they wish to voice for the rights of the developing countries. But this is more of a show rather than crutial interest.

In summary, it is not a problem of whether trust each other or not. It is the national interest of both the countries that decides the biliteral relationship. The national interest decides that they can't trust each other at all.




From the Indian perspective, the principal problems we have with China are territorial disputes. As long as those remain, and the perception in India remains that China is using Pakistan to harm India's regional and global ambitions, there will always be mistrust of Chinese intentions.

I'm not sure how China views India, but in India, China is viewed as not just a competitor, but a long term military threat. There are two reasons for this-unsolved territorial issues resulting in several clashes between the two countries, and the Chinese proliferation of nuclear weapons as well as conventional military assistance to Pakistan. As a result, you will find that the Indian military posture is geared toward a two-front war.

The other issues you raised are minor. China and India are predicted to be the top economic and military powers by 2050. Is it wise for China to permanently adopt an antagonistic posture towards India by arming and financing her worst enemy or have friendly relations with a large fellow Asian country?

Quote:
The Indians talked a lot about the war between different ideology. They are enthusiastic about fighting China by uniting all democracies...


India is not the USA, and Indians don't have an ideological obsession with democracy. India had a socialist past, and was allied with the USSR during the Cold War. In fact, India's constitution describes the country as a "socialist country". To speak of an "ideological war" is nonsense.