Siachen Glacier : The Highest battleground on Earth

[ezsasa]

Silly question....

why can't multiple permanent bases be built on siachen glacier. when i say permanent i mean with rocky mountains as the base and pre-fabricated concrete structures put together on site over a period of time. large loads could probably heli dropped from C-17 or C-130 if necessary.

if this was built by us in antarctica, surely siachen is feasible isn't it?

 

[IndianHawk]

Silly question....

why can't multiple permanent bases be built on siachen glacier. when i say permanent i mean with rocky mountains as the base and pre-fabricated concrete structures put together on site over a period of time. large loads could probably heli dropped from C-17 or C-130 if necessary.

if this was built by us in antarctica, surely siachen is feasible isn't it?

The actual border in the glacier not the rocky terrain.( I'm not 100% on this). So where we need to guard and patrol is always moving although slowly. I guess they already have permanent stores at rocky parts near glacier.



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[mayfair]

Apart from cold and snow there are Siachen and Antractica are poles apart (literally, since Siachen and surrounding areas are often called the third pole).

Antarctic bases are at sea or near-sea level. Siachen bases start at 20,000 feet. Structures need to be pressurised among other things.

Antarctic bases are in no danger of being buried by avalanches, Saichen bases are.

Antarctic bases are not under a constant threat of shelling or firing.

Building a permanent base on frozen surface over a firm rocky terrain is less difficult compared to putting up buildings over huge masses of shifting ice (it's a glacier).

Lastly, we are unlikely to find a large enough stretch of flat land up in the mountains to build such a structure.

 

[shankyz]

Good step by RM ......

 

[ladder]

Good step by RM ......

This will get framed for sure when it reaches the addresse.

 

[Deathstar]

Good step by RM ......

A simple appreciation letter by DM will make a huge difference in a life of soldier ,his family , his village. Very good step indeed

 

[Suryavanshi]

Apart from cold and snow there are Siachen and Antractica are poles apart (literally, since Siachen and surrounding areas are often called the third pole).

Antarctic bases are at sea or near-sea level. Siachen bases start at 20,000 feet. Structures need to be pressurised among other things.

Antarctic bases are in no danger of being buried by avalanches, Saichen bases are.

Antarctic bases are not under a constant threat of shelling or firing.

Building a permanent base on frozen surface over a firm rocky terrain is less difficult compared to putting up buildings over huge masses of shifting ice (it's a glacier).

Lastly, we are unlikely to find a large enough stretch of flat land up in the mountains to build such a structure.

An effort should be made regardless.
The condition for living is pathetic there, soldiers have to spend entire night in Igloo like structure.

There must be a rocky land less prone to avalanche.

We can build structure like these there.

If I'm not wrong we have no large structure on the other side of the glacier near Gasherbrum.

If we are going to stay there, we might as well make a permanent structures.

 

[ezsasa]

An effort should be made regardless.
The condition for living is pathetic there, soldiers have to spend entire night in Igloo like structure.

There must be a rocky land less prone to avalanche.

We can build structure like these there.

If I'm not wrong we have no large structure on the other side of the glacier near Gasherbrum.

If we are going to stay there, we might as well make a permanent structures.

Eggjactly!!!! I have been of this opinion for some time...

Engineering credentials of both PSU and private companies have progressed so much in India these days that they can easily make permanent structures in Siachen.

There is absolutely no excuse for not looking at this option.

 

[Deathstar]

Government needs to release RFI to develop systems to detect soldiers buried under avalanches. Do we have any??.
Avalanche warning systems need to installed to act fast against the danger. Such simple systems could save lives.
We cna build avalanche protected shelters along the patrol route so that if there some pre warning , such shelters can save their lives. These shelters can be equipped with oxygen tanks , heating devices , snow clearing battery operated machines so that soldiers could dig and find ways to get out

 

[ezsasa]

Government needs to release RFI to develop systems to detect soldiers buried under avalanches. Do we have any??.
Avalanche warning systems need to installed to act fast against the danger. Such simple systems could save lives.
We cna build avalanche protected shelters along the patrol route so that if there some pre warning , such shelters can save their lives. These shelters can be equipped with oxygen tanks , heating devices , snow clearing battery operated machines so that soldiers could dig and find ways to get out

Yup, soldiers deployed on Siachen are already equipped with beacons. You can watch it on one of patriot episodes.

Issue is not with identifying the location, issue is with digging thru the snow in time and reaching the spot on time.

Every minute matters while fighting against the onset of hypothermia.

 

[Suryavanshi]

An effort should be made regardless.
The condition for living is pathetic there, soldiers have to spend entire night in Igloo like structure.

There must be a rocky land less prone to avalanche.

We can build structure like these there.

If I'm not wrong we have no large structure on the other side of the glacier near Gasherbrum.

If we are going to stay there, we might as well make a permanent structures.

FYI this isn't just for siachen we should fortify all outpost near borders.

Pakistan is at it's weakest right now they can't spend much on their border infrastructure but we can.
Good infrastructure means well connected roads, permanently fortified structure.

Undisrupted supply chain of resources like ammunition, Food, Water, Medicals, clothing, equipment. A soldier can fight as long as he wants as long as he has all this.

A well set up air defence to counter bombing run by enemy. I don't if it possible but I was thinking if we could set up an air shield with Akash in the Kashmir borders.

It doesn't matter how much ammunition, super soldiers, food the pakis are keeping at their forward bases, once a barrage of pinakas fall on them all that remains will be dust.

 

[Chinmoy]

An effort should be made regardless.
The condition for living is pathetic there, soldiers have to spend entire night in Igloo like structure.

There must be a rocky land less prone to avalanche.

We can build structure like these there.

If I'm not wrong we have no large structure on the other side of the glacier near Gasherbrum.

If we are going to stay there, we might as well make a permanent structures.

Those Igloo like structure, FRP are life line and would be here for sure. The kind of permanent structure you have shown here are not feasible and viable in a location like Siachen.

So as long as we are deployed in the region, we have to be dependent on FRP rather then any permanent structure.

 

[Indrajit]

An effort should be made regardless.
The condition for living is pathetic there, soldiers have to spend entire night in Igloo like structure.

There must be a rocky land less prone to avalanche.

We can build structure like these there.

If I'm not wrong we have no large structure on the other side of the glacier near Gasherbrum.

If we are going to stay there, we might as well make a permanent structures.

I think the confusion is because of the term Siachen glacier being used very loosely. The avalanches are not happening on the glacier itself but on the mountains of the Saltoro range west of the glacier. It is the heights of those ridges that Indian troops occupy and like any mountains, there is always a risk of avalanche. Unfortunately, not much can be done about it, These posts are basically manned by very few troops at heights nearing 20000 ft and temperatures where even shit in the makeshift loo freezes and sometimes have to be machine gunned away. Let alone the almost impossible task of building any structures in those locations, the temperatures are so low that skin fuses with metal.

Nothing can be done about avalanches except preemptive action which would be very difficult in those areas.

An extreme case of avalanche hit the Pakistanis on their side ( they are not on the Siachen no matter what bs they feed their public) where their main base was crushed by a section of a glacier which broke off and buried them hundred feet under. Took the Pakistanis over a year to dig out the bodies, they lost over a 100 men. It’s the nature of the weather and conditions there, Always the risk of something devastating happening.

 

[Suryavanshi]

I think the confusion is because of the term Siachen glacier being used very loosely. The avalanches are not happening on the glacier itself but on the mountains of the Saltoro range west of the glacier. It is the heights of those ridges that Indian troops occupy and like any mountains, there is always a risk of avalanche. Unfortunately, not much can be done about it, These posts are basically manned by very few troops at heights nearing 20000 ft and temperatures where even shit in the makeshift loo freezes and sometimes have to be machine gunned away. Let alone the almost impossible task of building any structures in those locations, the temperatures are so low that skin fuses with metal.

Nothing can be done about avalanches except preemptive action which would be very difficult in those areas.

We could conduct a survey where we find out the areas which are less prone to avalanches. There will be areas where probability of avalanche is less likley.

And if its about building structures then we could work on the metallurgy if its needed.
Aluminium alloys are know to remain ductile and maintain its properties upto -100 c and austentic steel upto -200 c

 

[Suryavanshi]

Not of any particular importance but here are some pakistani towns near siachen


Saikasa
Khanqah E mullah Saith
Gulshan E Kabir
Haldi
Machlu
Hasaanbad Chorbat
Surpo
Saling

Khapalu is largest with 175,000

 

[Indrajit]

We could conduct a survey where we find out the areas which are less prone to avalanches. There will be areas where probability of avalanche is less likley.

And if its about building structures then we could work on the metallurgy if its needed.
Aluminium alloys are know to remain ductile and maintain its properties upto -100 c and austentic steel upto -200 c

Indian soldiers hold the heights of the Saltoro ridge . All the heights they need to deny Pakistanis a toe hold. They have no choice of sticking to less risky areas. Some of those heights require extraordinary measures just to keep supplied. Like all frontline positions, they are in direct line of Pakistani fire if it came to that. There is a continuous risk of avalanche there in some posts as there are in other similar areas that the army holds. Siachen is not necessarily the only place with that risk. Structures like the ones you suggested would be more feasible away from the frontline .

These recent avalanches also hit when the soldiers were on patrol, little that can be done to stop that.

 

[Indrajit]

This was the Site of an earlier avalanche . Just to get an idea of what the rain is like.

 

[Indrajit]

For a better understanding of where the Siachen glacier is and where the LOAC is...that’s the Saltoro ridge....

 

[Deathstar]

View attachment 40455

For a better understanding of where the Siachen glacier is and where the LOAC is...that’s the Saltoro ridge....

We control entire saltoro ridge right upto the trans karakoram tract?????

 

[Indrajit]

We control entire saltoro ridge right upto the trans karakoram tract?????

That is correct. The Pakistanis are on the lower slopes of the ridge, sometimes directly below Indian positions. For all the Pakistani claims to be on the Siachen glacier, the truth is that they can't even see the glacier from their positions.