Rustom 2/TAPAS/BH-201 MALE UAV News Updates and Discussions

[Chinmoy]

on the satcom part, if capability existed TAPAS 201 would have flown from Bangalore to Delhi by now. Endurance tests seems to be happening within Karnataka at the moment.

Aerial distance in between Banglore to Delhi is 1700 km. Range of Tapas with Satcom is 350 km.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

on the satcom part, if capability existed TAPAS 201 would have flown from Bangalore to Delhi by now. Endurance tests seems to be happening within Karnataka at the moment.

on the private companies part, even today they are hardly creating something new in major items segment on their own. They are mostly working on ToT model for now.

DRDO designs, private players manufacture. or foreign company designs, Indian private players manufacture.

So when it comes to MALE drones, indian private players are not ready yet. More over with current DAP rules, with “no cost no commitment” basis, indian private players very unlikely to venture into this space in terms of R&D.

The following links say Rustom has already flown in SATCOM mode. Restricting the drone to fly only at Chitradurga and not a Bangalore-Delhi flight might have to do with safety reasons. The drone crashing over populated areas could be a problem. Its still under development, after all.

https://www.onmanorama.com/news/str...fence-minister-rajnath-plane-talk-rafale.html

http://defenceupdate.in/tapas-bh-201-tested-with-satcom/

Agree with the private sector part.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Aerial distance in between Banglore to Delhi is 1700 km. Range of Tapas with Satcom is 350 km.

Ferry range should be much larger than 350 km. 350 km sounds like the combat operations radius with a large time on station.

 

[Chinmoy]

Ferry range should be much larger than 350 km. 350 km sounds like the combat operations radius with a large time on station.

Actually as per DRDO, the range is even less.

Ferry range doesn't matter much in case of SATCOM. With ATOL and auto pilot feature it could basically travel as long as its fuel lasts.

 

[ezsasa]

Actually as per DRDO, the range is even less.

Ferry range doesn't matter much in case of SATCOM. With ATOL and auto pilot feature it could basically travel as long as its fuel lasts.

Yup, officially there seems to be ambiguity on range. Or no one bothered to update DRDO website

anybody got specs sheet(other than wiki)?

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Yup, officially there seems to be ambiguity on range. Or no one bothered to update DRD

View attachment 106850

anybody got specs sheet(other than wiki)?

To attack karne ke liye kuch nahi hai !!!!!

 

[ezsasa]

To attack karne ke liye kuch nahi hai !!!!!

recon is key priority for Indian military not attack drones.

in current a military landscape, on land there are hardly any targets that would need an armed MALE UAV. can’t use them against Pakistan or China for attack, because they will have SAM to shoot armed MALE UAV down.

Only viable target are on naval space, where 26/11 attack type fishing vessel needs to be taken out at sea itself.

but huge scope for recon and earth observation, both in civil and military space. for ex: Ministry of road transport can use drone along with satellite to check road construction progress.

 

[Chinmoy]

Yup, officially there seems to be ambiguity on range. Or no one bothered to update DRDO website

View attachment 106850

anybody got specs sheet(other than wiki)?

This range and payload is with existing NPO engine. The upcoming indigenous engine is double the power which would increase its range.

 

[fire starter]

This range and payload is with existing NPO engine. The upcoming indigenous engine is double the power which would increase its range.

And payload too but there will be some penalty in weight and fuel.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

N
Not really. A lot of Venture funded startups are all about R&D. They are not about profits. Most startups go IPO despite massive losses. Most technology startups including Amazon had massive losses yet had successful IPOs. If India’s private companies can come up with a viable, high quality, price competitive military-grade drone, funding would never be a problem. I have a feeling that companies like TASL/TBAL are developing expertise at a very fast rate, thanks to their international joint ventures with Boeing, LM, Raytheon etc. . Many private aerospace companies in Bangalore are also developing pretty good expertise. There are pretty good chances that the private sector may trailblaze in India, thanks to the opening up of space and defense sectors to the private industry. It is the dawn of a new age for us where inefficient PSUs may fall by the wayside.

Every company works for profit.
Aerospace and aviation requires massive infrastructure and certifications. Since companies don't have humongous capitals unlike their governments, they are always engaged with their governments at various levels. Most of Indian aerospace start ups are dependent upon the base provided by PSUs, DRDO and ISRO and only have been suggesting innovations and improvements

A start up based on IT services like Flipkart or Zomato have a relatively a more secure future in a net-integrated consumer economy with high population like India. They weren't gambling while investing.

It is the dawn of a new age for us where inefficient PSUs may fall by the wayside.

PSUs won't wall unless India decides to become stone age. They are the generators of tech.

You have to understand that a private organization only works for its profits while a PSU works for the political motive of governments across the world. Privatisation is not a magic. Applying whip produces more efficiency as in private sector but efficiency production isn't a thing in process of R&D, development and hit-trial. They need unlimited funds, great facilities and cool minds. Hurrying up gives results in production, not R&D since you don't know hurry for what.

Exceptional companies like Lockheed, Boeing, Airbus or Hyundai etc. receive heavy funds from their governments for development. Their trade is highly regulated and restricted by their governments, they even receive direct orders without bidding. They have perks any office in their governments enjoy.
So, these companies have become more like privately-owned PSUs. Our journey in modern aerospace sector started just in 2000s.

There is not even remotely a private company in India capable of competing with PSUs in unmanned or manned aircraft development.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

recon is key priority for Indian military not attack drones.

in current a military landscape, on land there are hardly any targets that would need an armed MALE UAV. can’t use them against Pakistan or China for attack, because they will have SAM to shoot armed MALE UAV down.

Only viable target are on naval space, where 26/11 attack type fishing vessel needs to be taken out at sea itself.

but huge scope for recon and earth observation, both in civil and military space. for ex: Ministry of road transport can use drone along with satellite to check road construction progress.

We need a HALE that can fly at 70000 feet - beyond a SAM’s max alt. Looks like LM is working on SR72 drone, a successor to SR71 Blackbird which did recon at 70000 feet at Mach3 speed. NG is working on beyond SAM RQ180 drone as well.

Lockheed Martin SR-72 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Northrop Grumman RQ-180 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Would be interesting to see if such drones get viable and become part of USAF, which sorely misses the SR71 BB.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Every company works for profit.
Aerospace and aviation requires massive infrastructure and certifications. Since companies don't have humongous capitals unlike their governments, they are always engaged with their governments at various levels. Most of Indian aerospace start ups are dependent upon the base provided by PSUs, DRDO and ISRO and only have been suggesting innovations and improvements

A start up based on IT services like Flipkart or Zomato have a relatively a more secure future in a net-integrated consumer economy with high population like India. They weren't gambling while investing.

PSUs won't wall unless India decides to become stone age. They are the generators of tech.

You have to understand that a private organization only works for its profits while a PSU works for the political motive of governments across the world. Privatisation is not a magic. Applying whip produces more efficiency as in private sector but efficiency production isn't a thing in process of R&D, development and hit-trial. They need unlimited funds, great facilities and cool minds. Hurrying up gives results in production, not R&D since you don't know hurry for what.

Exceptional companies like Lockheed, Boeing, Airbus or Hyundai etc. receive heavy funds from their governments for development. Their trade is highly regulated and restricted by their governments, they even receive direct orders without bidding. They have perks any office in their governments enjoy.
So, these companies have become more like privately-owned PSUs. Our journey in modern aerospace sector started just in 2000s.

There is not even remotely a private company in India capable of competing with PSUs in unmanned or manned aircraft development.

What about TASL? They say they can build a whole plane now. They just bought design IP from a German company. A step up to drones shouldn’t be too hard then especially is they can get their hands on drone engines?

In a first, Tata to build military aircraft in India as it acquires IP rights

The high-altitude, twin-engine aircraft, capable of playing multiple roles from signal intelligence to cross-border surveillance, is currently in the final stages of testing in Germany. It is likely to arrive in India in the next three months for further integration.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Also, Adani’s JV :

Adani Group inaugurates India's first drone building facility in Hyderabad

India's first private Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV) or drone manufacturing facility has been inaugurated in Hyderabad. The facility has been set up by Adani Defence & Aerospace, and Elbit Systems.The 50,000 square feet facility would also be the first facility outside Israel to manufacture...

www.business-standard.com

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Actually as per DRDO, the range is even less.

Ferry range doesn't matter much in case of SATCOM. With ATOL and auto pilot feature it could basically travel as long as its fuel lasts.

Yup, officially there seems to be ambiguity on range. Or no one bothered to update DRDO website

View attachment 106850

anybody got specs sheet(other than wiki)?

This 250 km range was with LOS comms. With SATCOM, no official range figure has been published, but going by endurance and cruise speed estimates, we should be able to get a figure of around 1000 km.

EDIT: 1000 km figure is based on cruise speed of around 125 kmph and an endurance of 8 hours which it has already demonstrated. If the targeted endurance of 16 hours is achieved, it'll be even more.

 

[Chinmoy]

This 250 km range was with LOS comms. With SATCOM, no official range figure has been published, but going by endurance and cruise speed estimates, we should be able to get a figure of around 1000 km.

EDIT: 1000 km figure is based on cruise speed of around 125 kmph and an endurance of 8 hours which it has already demonstrated. If the targeted endurance of 16 hours is achieved, it'll be even more.

Even the likes of MQ-9 can't fly 1000 km with SATCOM.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Even the likes of MQ-9 can't fly 1000 km with SATCOM.

Well, this article says MQ-9B has a mission radius of 2,200 km with on-station time of 8 hours.
https://www.flightglobal.com/milita...-submarine-tracking-capability/142032.article
https://www.flightglobal.com/milita...-submarine-tracking-capability/142032.article
.
EDIT: Even the official website puts the maximum range at 6000+ nautical miles which is 11,112 km.

 

[Chinmoy]

Well, this article says MQ-9B has a mission radius of 2,200 km with on-station time of 8 hours.
https://www.flightglobal.com/milita...-submarine-tracking-capability/142032.article
https://www.flightglobal.com/milita...-submarine-tracking-capability/142032.article
.
EDIT: Even the official website puts the maximum range at 6000+ nautical miles which is 11,112 km.

Input the GPS data of point A and B in a UAV and put it on auto pilot. With the help of ATOL it could easily travel in between these two points. Moreover if you want to drop a bomb on a target at point B, you have to just input the target data and it would do the job.

But when SATCOM comes in play, where you want real time data analysis and target acquisition, you need a BTS. This BTS can't be 1000 km away from target. BTS could be unmanned, but you need one within range of the UAV to control it.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

But when SATCOM comes in play, where you want real time data analysis and target acquisition, you need a BTS. This BTS can't be 1000 km away from target. BTS could be unmanned, but you need one within range of the UAV to control it.

WTF? Why? As long as signal latency you get is within design limits, there should be no reason why you would need a ground station. What is the point of SATCOM if you end up needing a ground station anyway? Maybe I am misuderstanding you, but that is not how SATCOM drones work. American drone pilots sit back in USA and take out targets in Afghanistan.

 

[SavageKing456]

Ferry range should be much larger than 350 km. 350 km sounds like the combat operations radius with a large time on station.

Ferry range is 1000km approx

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

N
Not really. A lot of Venture funded startups are all about R&D. They are not about profits. Most startups go IPO despite massive losses. Most technology startups including Amazon had massive losses yet had successful IPOs. If India’s private companies can come up with a viable, high quality, price competitive military-grade drone, funding would never be a problem. I have a feeling that companies like TASL/TBAL are developing expertise at a very fast rate, thanks to their international joint ventures with Boeing, LM, Raytheon etc. . Many private aerospace companies in Bangalore are also developing pretty good expertise. There are pretty good chances that the private sector may trailblaze in India, thanks to the opening up of space and defense sectors to the private industry. It is the dawn of a new age for us where inefficient PSUs may fall by the wayside.

Even if R&D isn't a problem, govt orders are. Companies like Idea Forge, Mahindra LSV etc had to wait till the chinese incursions to see an order. Even with our artillery shortfall we are doing trials and trials of our artillery begging for orders from same private entities while preparing to shell out 1.1B for 6 Apaches. I mean LUH, LCH certification are over....

 

[VIP]

To attack karne ke liye kuch nahi hai !!!!!

We are not dealing with taliban type enemies whose leaders are in hiding places which requires a cover air strike without any human casualties, our adversaries have well equipped military, armed drones are target practice for them.