Russian vs Western Stealth Technology

[average american]

There is no threat to the USA or USA airpower that calls for the USA to build its air power more the present day plan. At one time when the F22 was first started it was thought the USSR would be a substantial military power.

Its not and with only a military budget ten percent of the USA will never be a real threat. Russia does not have the economic power to be a threat to the USA. Its not we can build more planes, but that we dont need more planes.
US, China & Russian Military Strength Compared
Submitted by Ralph Waldo on Sun, 09/27/2009 - 14:23
in Daily Paul Liberty Forum


There seems to be a lot of confusion about how US military strength compares to that of China and Russia. Here are a few of the main categories from 2009 as well as a reference for more info.

Military Defense Spending and Budgets
USA - $515,400,000,000
China - $59,000,000,000
Russia - $43,200,000,000

Aerial-Based Weapons
USA - 18,169
China - 1,900
Russia - 3,888

Navy Ships
USA - 1559
China - 760
Russia - 526

Aircraft Carriers
USA - 12
China - 1
Russia - 1

Destroyers
USA - 50
China - 21
Russia - 15

In addition one must consider that this difference in military budgets has been going on since the USSR collapsed almost 20 years ago. Plus the degree of sophistication of the technology is drastically different as well. ie. All tanks are not created equal! (These numbers do not include atomic weapons).

For more info:
Global Firepower - 2012 World Military Strength Ranking

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: Sukhoi PAK FA and FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft)

I think they have already deployed F35 to bases in Arizona, Florida, Utah and Vermont .

Vermont? 158th Fighter Wing has F-16s.

158th Fighter Wing, Vermont Air National Guard - Home

Do you have more recent info?

 

[average american]

Not really. If you look at the figures on US Military air power, the US has more then Russia, China and India combined. There is just no need for the USA to build the number of F22 and F35 now that the USSR has collapsed.

 

[devil510]

Re: Sukhoi PAK FA and FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft)

Are you sure about Combat drones being delayed until 2030.
Navy's X-47B Stealthy Combat Drone Makes First Flight

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2011/02/06/n...ombat-drone-makes-first-flight/#ixzz24rKofrSl
Defense.org

Artificial intelligence programs have been developed to take over until the pilot can recover in the F22 and F35. However, the continuing development of airframes and engines will soon pass beyond the ability of any human to tolerate. By 2020 the US will have combat stealthy air superiorty drones that can handle up to 50 Gs.

Please stop boring me wherever i go and wasting my time and ruining all the threads in world we get it your f-22

The F22 is the greatest thing on earth since the wheel was invented and the T-50 will just fall out of the sky (if it does manage to take off)! Soon the US will be using F22s to fight interstellar war once all human kind except americans have been wiped out by F22s. Soon, the f22 will defy gravity and shoot into space with AA on board who will lead the mighty Americans in colonizing other galaxies and fighting aliens in Zeta Reticuli.

All hail the F22!! If you fail to perform enough hailing, then AA will roundhouse kick your butt so hard, your grandchildren will suffer brain hemorrhage 50 years from now. Remember that before you dare to put down the F22!

All these words are of somebody else but i agree wit them wholeheartedly

 

[average american]

Re: Sukhoi PAK FA and FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft)

Please stop boring me wherever i go and wasting my time and ruining all the threads in world we get it your f-22

The F22 is the greatest thing on earth since the wheel was invented and the T-50 will just fall out of the sky (if it does manage to take off)! Soon the US will be using F22s to fight interstellar war once all human kind except americans have been wiped out by F22s. Soon, the f22 will defy gravity and shoot into space with AA on board who will lead the mighty Americans in colonizing other galaxies and fighting aliens in Zeta Reticuli.

All hail the F22!! If you fail to perform enough hailing, then AA will roundhouse kick your butt so hard, your grandchildren will suffer brain hemorrhage 50 years from now. Remember that before you dare to put down the F22!

All these words are of somebody else but i agree wit them wholeheartedly

I am glad you finally understand.

 

[devil510]

oh i can understand very well it is you who can't understand anything this is americans greatest regret will be in coming years that they were never able to understand

 

[prestigiousindian]

Re: Sukhoi PAK FA and FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft)

I am glad you finally understand.

First of all i'm not having too much knowledge in these techs but like to share few things. Some guy posted america s greatest. Take the best ppl frm around the world living in america out, think of what is left behind. Stop speaking of Russia they dont have ppl frm everywhere they are real genius. Everything from missiles satellites space stations they wer ur GodFathers...

 

[pmaitra]

Russia's New Stealth Torpedoes Have a Neat Trick: They Can Pretend to Be Giant Fish

Michael Peck
November 24, 2017

"Hey, that's no turtle. That's a torpedo headed toward us!"

This is what U.S. ship captains will scream too late, if Russia has its way. Russia is promising to develop smart mini-torpedoes that are noiseless, leave no wake—and creep through the water at two to three miles per hour.

These "combat turtles," which are supposed to fool enemy sensors into thinking they are fish, were will weigh less than 100 pounds, according to scientist Shamil Aliyev, described by Russian media as Russia's leading torpedo expert. The idea is to unleash swarms of these weapons that will sneak up on enemy ships.

The project is still in the conceptual stage, Aliyev told Russian news agency RIA Novosti [Google English translation here]. The biggest challenge is equipping the mini-torpedo with Artificial Intelligence (AI). The AI is needed so the torpedo will mimic the behavior of a large fish, "so that no one pays attention to it." In turn, the challenge of designing an AI for a turtle-like torpedo is making it adaptable enough to cope with uncertain conditions. "To make a decision in conditions of uncertainty is twice the task," Aliyev added.

Recommended: 1.2 Million Casualties: If North Korea Attacked Los Angeles with a Nuclear Weapon

Aliyev foresees swarms of mini-torpedoes as an undersea game-changer:

Now the trend has shifted from heavy torpedoes to light ones, that is from two tons to 35–40 kilograms [77–88 pounds]. It's a fantastic thing. It's a qualitatively different conception. When there is one big man and he needs to be neutralized, this is a difficult task, but it can be solved. But when thousands of “combat turtles” creep and you do not know which one is real, and which is an imitator, this is a problem of a completely different level of complexity.​

Regardless of whether Russia's new torpedoes pretend to be turtles or Charlie the Tuna, the fact remains that they would still travel at two miles per hour, or not much faster than a goldfish. Indeed, they sound closer to self-propelled mines.

Bryan Clark, a former U.S. Navy submarine officer and now an analyst at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, has his doubts about the concept:

At 3 to 5 knots, the torpedo or swarms of torpedoes won’t be able to catch submarines that normally travel 5 to 15 knots or surface ships that normally travel 15 to 25 knots. The mini-torpedo swarm could be launched from ahead of the target, if the attacker knows the target’s likely direction of travel and can preposition the launcher. If the target detects the torpedo and evades, the torpedo would be too slow to keep up or intercept the target.​

A mini-torpedo lacks the space and power to carry a powerful sonar to detect targets at a distance, nor can it carry sophisticated navigation gear. And even if hits the target, it might not do much damage. "A heavyweight torpedo has a 1000-pound warhead to break the keel on a surface ship or rupture the pressure hull of a submarine," Clark says. "An 88-pound torpedo will probably have a warhead of only about 45 pounds. If it is a shaped charge, that could be enough to puncture a submarine pressure hull. But it would need to be precisely placed and be able to get right next to the submarine. That would be hard at only 3 to 5 knots."

However, Clark does believe these torpedoes could be useful against fixed targets like underwater cables and pipelines. But rather than torpedoes, he likens the Russian concept to unmanned underwater vehicles, or UUV. The United States and other nations are aggressively trying to develop small drones that will operate in swarms to flood the battlefield with cheap, lethal robots.

As for stealth, Clark points out that Russia will first have to suppress the mechanical noise of the torpedoes. Then, Russia must make the torpedo resemble an undersea creature. "If you go to the effort of making a UUV quiet, why incur new costs to create it more detectable in the hopes it will sound like a fish?"

Michael Peck is a contributing writer for the National Interest. He can be found on Twitter and Facebook.

Image: Reuters

 

[Razor]

@pmaitra
As computing power (Moore's law) and radar tech keep improving at rapid pace, will not stealth tend to obsolete status as time moves?
Why then are everyone so obsessed with stealth???

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra
As computing power (Moore's law) and radar tech keep improving at rapid pace, will not stealth tend to obsolete status as time moves?
Why then are everyone so obsessed with stealth???

When it comes to aircraft, I think stealth technology is already looking vulnerable. Long-wavelength radar waves do manage to detect stealth aircraft better. Part of the reason, I suppose, is resistance to refraction.

 

[no smoking]

When it comes to aircraft, I think stealth technology is already looking vulnerable. Long-wavelength radar waves do manage to detect stealth aircraft better. Part of the reason, I suppose, is resistance to refraction.

No, long-wavelength radar only help detecting, the real problem is how to lock these stealth targets by the fighter equipped radar. It is more likely that you will be shot down by stealth fighter before you get within the close enough range for your radar to lock it.

 

[aditya10r]

No, long-wavelength radar only help detecting, the real problem is how to lock these stealth targets by the fighter equipped radar. It is more likely that you will be shot down by stealth fighter before you get within the close enough range for your radar to lock it.

Can AWACS with long wavelength radar help????

They can obviously lock on and guide missiles to the stealthy target.

_________________________________________

 

[asianobserve]

No, long-wavelength radar only help detecting, the real problem is how to lock these stealth targets by the fighter equipped radar. It is more likely that you will be shot down by stealth fighter before you get within the close enough range for your radar to lock it.

America was first on stealth and they are unsurprisingly first on true counter-stealth (they have F-117,B-2, F-22 & F-35, and a multitude of prototype stealth aircrafts to master their enti-stealth tech). They married UHF/VHF radars with massive computing power to be able to target stealth planes and then place the antennas on top of an E-2 Hawkeye. Now the USN has the first operational true counterstealth airborne radar platform in the form of E-2 Advanced HAwkeye, which is not good for China. Then Japan will soon get its own E-2D.

 

[pmaitra]

No, long-wavelength radar only help detecting, the real problem is how to lock these stealth targets by the fighter equipped radar. It is more likely that you will be shot down by stealth fighter before you get within the close enough range for your radar to lock it.

Green: Agree.
Blue: So, it is a problem. What is the solution?
Red: If my adversary can lock me from a distance that I won't make it close enough to the adversary, then that adversary would probably be using long-wavelength.

 

[no smoking]

Can AWACS with long wavelength radar help????

They can obviously lock on and guide missiles to the stealthy target._________________________________________

No. The latest anti-stealth radars are VHF/UHF radars which are generally working between 30MHz to 3000MHz. As today's stealth technology is working best against center meter radar wave, its RCS will be downgrade significantly. However, comparing to those X or S radars, VHF/UHF have a terrible precise problem which is not good enough to guide missile to attack. In some research, the deviation could be as large as 100 meters. So the way that VHF/UHF radar works is to detect stealth plane earlier, provide more early warning time for own stealth plane.

 

[Screambowl]

Can AWACS with long wavelength radar help????

They can obviously lock on and guide missiles to the stealthy target.

_________________________________________

The only problem is the time.
As stealth would detect the AWACS before AWACS detects the stealth

 

[Screambowl]

As computing power (Moore's law) and radar tech keep improving at rapid pace, will not stealth tend to obsolete status as time moves?

Stealth comes with the combination of material science + mechanics + electronics.

It's the material science which lags behind and does not run as per the moore's law as it deals with discovery. And hence it also effects the mechanics and electronics too.

 

[Kay]

No. The latest anti-stealth radars are VHF/UHF radars which are generally working between 30MHz to 3000MHz. As today's stealth technology is working best against center meter radar wave, its RCS will be downgrade significantly. However, comparing to those X or S radars, VHF/UHF have a terrible precise problem which is not good enough to guide missile to attack. In some research, the deviation could be as large as 100 meters. So the way that VHF/UHF radar works is to detect stealth plane earlier, provide more early warning time for own stealth plane.

You can add some intelligent guess work to the long wavelength radar inputs and increase the probability of hitting the stealth aircraft. That is how the lone F117 was brought down.
SAMs however can afford to waste more missiles than aircrafts.
There are networked long wavelength radars, VHF, UHF, Teraherz radars, quantum radars and IRST technologies - all having the possibility to making steath obsolete.

 

[Kay]

Can AWACS with long wavelength radar help????

They can obviously lock on and guide missiles to the stealthy target.

_________________________________________

Long wavelength radars cannot provide enough precision to guide missiles.

 

[Babloo Singh]

The only problem is the time.
As stealth would detect the AWACS before AWACS detects the stealth

Doesn't Matter as long as they are 200 Km's away :biggrin2: