Russian Arms Copycat China: Chinese version of Russian jet endangers bilateral relati

BunBunCake

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http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-04-20/russian-arms-copycat-china.html
(video also there)

Chinese version of Russian jet endangers bilateral relations
Published 20 April, 2010, 07:58
Edited 21 April, 2010, 23:03

Despite holding the position as one of the world's biggest economies, China seems unwilling to shed its reputation for producing cheap replicas.

And one of their more ambitious copycat efforts may put a strain on Russia-China relations.

"This Chinese plane is simply a Russian design stuffed with local electronics," says Maksim Pyadushkin from the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technology about the Chinese J11B jet's resemblance to the Russian Su-27. "It's a knock-off."

Last year, Russian aircraft sales internationally topped $3 billion – second only to the US. But others too want a slice of the aviation pie.

Vadim Kozyulin, program director for conventional arms from the Russian Center for Policy Studies, says that fake Su-27s are widely offered in the world arms market. "Sooner or later, Russian arms traders will face competition from the Chinese colleagues," he told RT.

China was given the design plans for the Russian fighter jet in 1995, when it promised to buy 200 kits and assemble them domestically. After building 100 planes, the Chinese said the Russian plane did not meet specifications, only for a copycat version soon to appear – "Made in China" – without copyright.

The threat from China is real, and it will be difficult for the Russian aviation industry to maintain its lofty position, and soar further unless it manages to better protect its intellectual rights and also find new ways of co-operating with its eastern neighbor.

Although it made its maiden flight over 30 years ago, the Su-27 remains the bedrock of the Russian air force, and is highly popular abroad.

"I don't think anyone who's flown on the SU-27 can ask for a different plane, unless we are talking about a new generation jet," believes Lt. Colonel Andrey Alekseyev, Air Force Pilot. "It's maneuverable and has a huge range."

Some are calling for calm over the controversy. While the similarities between the two planes are clear, experts say the Chinese J11B does not have the latest Russian high-tech features and will be no match for it on the international market.

The best way to fight copyright violations is to be technologically ahead of your rivals, claims Maksim Pyadushkin from the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technology. "The biggest problem for Russia is that it has been living off the legacy of the Soviet Union, and soon its technology may no longer be the world leader," he asserts.

Rather than a continuing dogfight over the copycat plane, it is possible that Russia and China may yet settle the matter amicably – at the highest political level.

But in the shady world of international weapons copyright, similar cases are sure to follow.
 

badguy2000

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Russia sour grape again

it is very strange that "high quality orginal edition Russia weapons" are annoyed by the ass-kick by "low quality CHina's copy"...ahah


jungle principle can be applied to weapon market too: "surivial of the fittest"


If Russia-made weapons can no survive the competition from CHina-made ones, it just proves that Russia-made weapons are not fittest ,or not as fit as CHina-made at least.

If I were a Russian, I would rethink seriouls why Russia-made weapons are ass-kicked by Chinese-made copy, instead of sour grape all day and all night.


After all, sour grapes can not save the ass of Russia defence industry.
 
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BunBunCake

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Russia sour grape again

it is very strange that "high quality orginal edition Russia weapons" are annoyed by the ass-kick by "low quality CHina's copy"...ahah
Take example the F-35. Turkey is buying them. Would the US be concerned if TAI reverse engineers the engine, radar, the targeting pods or not? =love

Same with Russia.
No one wants their own products to be reverse engineered and put up against their own original models.

Take that scenario as an example. If TAI does reverse engineer the F-35, there's no way it will absorb all the technologies that the US got from decades of research. But the US will still be pissed.
 
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Russia sour grape again

it is very strange that "high quality orginal edition Russia weapons" are annoyed by the ass-kick by "low quality CHina's copy"...ahah


jungle principle can be applied to weapon market too: "surivial of the fittest"

If Russia-made weapons can no survive the competition from CHina-made ones, it just proves that Russia-made weapons are not fittest ,or not as fit as CHina-made at least.

If I were a Russian, I would rethink seriouls why Russia-made weapons are ass-kicked by Chinese-made copy, instead of sour grape all day and all night.


After all, sour grapes can not save the ass of Russia defence industry.



Has China reached a point where you don't need the Russians anymore for your defense needs??
 

badguy2000

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Take example the F-35. Turkey is buying them. Would the US be concerned if TAI reverse engineers the engine, radar, the targeting pods or not? =love

Same with Russia.
No one wants their own products to be reverse engineered and put up against their own original models.

Take that scenario as an example. If TAI does reverse engineer the F-35, there's no way it will absorb all the technologies that the US got from decades of research. But the US will still be pissed.
forget it.

in any market,"cost performance" is the king.

if you can bought better cost performance goods, nobody cares whether it is copy or not.

if CHina can work out better cost performance weapons, it itself is a achievement that Russian can not accomplish.


everybody here should seriouly rethink why only China can produce best cost performance goods, from commodity to weaponss?
 

BunBunCake

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If Russia-made weapons can no survive the competition from CHina-made ones, it just proves that Russia-made weapons are not fittest ,or not as fit as CHina-made at least.
If Russian made weapons are not fittest, then you wouldn't buy from them ;)

If I were a Russian, I would rethink seriouls why Russia-made weapons are ass-kicked by Chinese-made copy, instead of sour grape all day and all night.
Actually sir, If i were Russian, I'd stop all sales to China and see how much they can produce on their own.... now they can create their own competition and no one will be bothered by it.

After all, sour grapes can not save the ass of Russia defence industry.
Don't worry they have India ;)
 
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forget it.

in any market,"cost performance" is the king.

if you can bought better cost performance goods, nobody cares whether it is copy or not.

if CHina can work out better cost performance weapons, it itself is a achievement that Russian can not accomplish.


everybody here should seriouly rethink why only China can produce best cost performance goods, from commodity to weaponss?
cost is one factor but quality is the bigger factor, these goods are functionally not the same.
 

BunBunCake

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forget it.

in any market,"cost performance" is the king.

if you can bought better cost performance goods, nobody cares whether it is copy or not.

if CHina can work out better cost performance weapons, it itself is a achievement that Russian can not accomplish.


everybody here should seriouly rethink why only China can produce best cost performance goods, from commodity to weaponss?
Sir, exactly their concern. If china keeps making these cheap things (weather it's good or not) it's cheap..... countries like Pakistan who don't have money want these. Russian market goes down, Chinese goes up.
That's why they are suggesting "endangers bilateral relations"

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia would bar China from buying the PAK FA now.
 
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Sir, exactly their concern. If china keeps making these cheap things (weather it's good or not) it's cheap..... countries like Pakistan who don't have money want these. Russian market goes down, Chinese goes up.
That's why they are suggesting "endangers bilateral relations"

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia would bar China from buying the PAK FA now.
China has their own 5th gen in development, PAKFA is never going to China regardless.
 

badguy2000

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Has China reached a point where you don't need the Russians anymore for your defense needs??
haha ,again......

it is obviously not a glory that russia has been still living on the fat left by Soviet for almost 20 years. I am very happy to see what RUssia will look like after the fat left by Soviet has been eaten up.


it is also not a shame at all to acknowledge the weapon gap betweeen Russia and CHina now,because I know we are catching up rapidly and make Russian's warry deeply about the fate of their "high-quality weapons" ...ahaha.

After all, just 3 years ago, nobody here would believe that CHina's 5G bird would fly almost as the same as Russia's one.
10 years ago, Russians even didn't think that China-made weapons were in the position to challenge Russia-made ones..


Mr Vladimir once pledged to hang himself if CHina's 5G bird can fly before Russia's one.

He would not have any risk pledge hanging himself 5 years ago....ahaha however, today he jusg got a narrow escape.
 
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it has not flown yet and when it does 5th genration will have a new definition. You are still getting AL-31's and s-300 from the russians in their past glory.
 

BunBunCake

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it has not flown yet and when it does 5th genration will have a new definition. You are still getting AL-31's and s-300 from the russians in their past glory.

Mr Vladimir once pledged to hang himself if CHina's 5G bird can fly before Russia's one.

He would not have any risk pledge hanging himself 5 years ago....ahaha however, today he jusg got a narrow escape.

Yes, badguy you say that Russia should be worried about something?
and China catching up?

Your J-xx wouldn't come even in a couple decades if Russia stopped selling engines to you. Because you need an engine first to make the supa stealthy plane fly. :)
 

nrj

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Yeah the WS-10 developed from AL-31 are crashing your J10s....

Hopefully you will continue with them & wont order more AL-31 just to prove home product since you have lot of pilot population & cheap serial production line...

BTW with which aircraft are your pilots training for Carrier operations? Su-33 copy? or Su-33?
 
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ahmedsid

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Badguy, Where is ur super stealth plane? Mr Vladimir didnt loose the bet! You did! Now Stop bringing in Vladimir, its getting pretty Booooring! Everytime you take his name as if he lost the Bet, while in reality you chinese lost it! Its so like you to Twist Vladimirs words, even though you guys cant build a decent engine! Yes, we Indians have our drawbacks, but we dont go on boasting and telling lies like you are! Russian tech parity with Chinese? MY FOOT!
 

BunBunCake

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Yeah the WS-10 developed from AL-31 are crashing your J10s....
Hopefully you will continue with them & wont order more AL-31 just to prove home product since you have lot of pilot population & cheap serial production line...

BTW with which aircraft are your pilots training for Carrier operations? Su-33 copy? or Su-33?
No need for mockery mate. Let's be decent here.
 

badguy2000

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Badguy, Where is ur super stealth plane? Mr Vladimir didnt loose the bet! You did! Now Stop bringing in Vladimir, its getting pretty Booooring! Everytime you take his name as if he lost the Bet, while in reality you chinese lost it! Its so like you to Twist Vladimirs words, even though you guys cant build a decent engine! Yes, we Indians have our drawbacks, but we dont go on boasting and telling lies like you are! Russian tech parity with Chinese? MY FOOT!
Vlamdir once pledged to eat his key borad, if Russia-made 5 Bird could not fly before 2010...however, i still have not see him eating his key board.
 

BunBunCake

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Vlamdir once pledged to eat his key borad, if Russia-made 5 Bird could not fly before 2010...however, i still have not see him eating his key board.
Irrelevant to this though. He kept his word on J-XX. ;)
We're not saying China isn't capable.

But asking, IF it's capable. Why not make better tech than Russia. The J-XX example doesn't count. Again, No engine = no plane. Same with many of your other aircraft too.

(off topic, but let me tell you India too)
I personally don't trust/believe DRDO, HAL, who ever when they say AGNI-V is in testing, etc. Because they haven't made it yet. And the previous ones are failures (with exception of Agni I, II). And this MCA program (India's 5th gen) is ridiculous. India cannot make it's own radar, engine, and crucial components in the TEJAS but how can it make sweet 5th gens?
 

badguy2000

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Has China reached a point where you don't need the Russians anymore for your defense needs??
case is that China has reached a point where Russia sour grapes all day and all night and are afflicted by the ass-kick by CHina-made ones.
 
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nrj

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Vlamdir once pledged to eat his key borad, if Russia-made 5 Bird could not fly before 2010...however, i still have not see him eating his key board.
Because he was abducted by PRC. Fun apart. Lets leave that to Vladimir. I still can't see your claim China being the fittest in the game you call. JXX hasn't flown yet.

(off topic, but let me tell you India too)
I personally don't trust/believe DRDO, HAL, who ever when they say AGNI-V is in testing, etc. Because they haven't made it yet. And the previous ones are failures (with exception of Agni I, II). And this MCA program (India's 5th gen) is ridiculous. India cannot make it's own radar, engine, and crucial components in the TEJAS but how can it make sweet 5th gens?
India made engine for Tejas, engine thrust is problem. Engine development was achieved, it couldn't power LCA MK-1 is different issue. Indigenous AESA Radar, Engine will appear in LCA MK-2 within few years. Just because of certain test failures doesn't make India "not eligible" to make advanced Fighter plane.

MCA aint ridiculous. Its a brave project. At least we are not Reverse Engineering. Desi tech dev will take time but will emerge nothing inferior than others.
 

nrj

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case is that China has reached a point where Russia sour grapes all day and all night and are afflicted by the ass-kick by CHina-made ones.
BG seriously has China achieved total superiority? I would like to see if you can get comparison case by case...

I mean i agree in quite few weapon export areas, China is finding edge but Russian bag has much to offer this world even today...
 

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