Pakistan ranked 124th amid 144 economies

[A chauhan]

So you consider public hanging of kasab as fair. Yes or No?

Don't ask me such questions for terrorists, I don't have any mercy for Terrorists in my heart, I support what USA did to OBL, they shot him, no prosecution, no criticism, no headache, no fears of plane hijacks and demands of OBL's release against that hijack as a ransom. Kasab should have been shot at the time of or before his arrest, because govt. had no guts to punish Pakistan for that. But to respect the prescribed procedure of law, humanistic feelings and moral correctness he is being prosecuted.

Off course yes, if govt. decides to hang Kasab in front of people I'll be very happy

 

[Defcon 1]

Don't ask me such questions for terrorists, I don't have any mercy for Terrorists in my heart, I support what USA did to OBL, they shot him, no prosecution, no criticism, no headache, no fears of plane hijacks and demands of OBL's release against that hijack as a ransom. Kasab should have been shot at the time of or before his arrest, because govt. had no guts to punish Pakistan for that. But to respect the prescribed procedure of law, humanistic feelings and moral correctness he is being prosecuted.

Off course yes, if govt. decides to hang Kasab in front of people I'll be very happy

I meant do you support public hanging of Kasab without a fair trial??

It seems from your post, that you do. In that case, my friend, you are at an difference with people who wrote our penal code. Ever wondered why each criminal was given the right to a fair trial, despite his crimes?? Even after the crime has been established, there is further debate on the type of punishment that should be awarded to the criminal. That is precisely to keep ourselves falling down to the level of the criminals.

You might be right that US avoided a lot of trouble by killing OBL plainly. But was it justice for OBL, were those crimes people say he committed were proved?? No, now you may say that everyone knows that OBL is a bad man, but the law doesn't work like that. That is the difference between a national penal code and tribal laws. We need to ensure that punishments are given only after establishment of conduct of crime, and each individual is given some rights which cannot be taken away from him at any cost. If you believe that OBL killing was right, maybe you would prefer chinese system to the Indian system, where individual rights are violated on a regular basis to protect state interests.

And therefore we cannot bash all pakistanis for no good reason. Because we are not hippies. If a person's fellow countrymen have committed a crime against us, that does not mean that that person suffer for this. He should be treated fairly despite of his nationality. Those pakistanis are our guests on this forum as should be treated so. Similarly actions of elite class of pakistan doesn't make the whole pakistani society subject to bashing.

 

[A chauhan]

I meant do you support public hanging of Kasab without a fair trial??

It seems from your post, that you do. In that case, my friend, you are at an difference with people who wrote our penal code. Ever wondered why each criminal was given the right to a fair trial, despite his crimes?? Even after the crime has been established, there is further debate on the type of punishment that should be awarded to the criminal. That is precisely to keep ourselves falling down to the level of the criminals.

You might be right that US avoided a lot of trouble by killing OBL plainly. But was it justice for OBL, were those crimes people say he committed were proved?? No, now you may say that everyone knows that OBL is a bad man, but the law doesn't work like that. That is the difference between a national penal code and tribal laws. We need to ensure that punishments are given only after establishment of conduct of crime, and each individual is given some rights which cannot be taken away from him at any cost. If you believe that OBL killing was right, maybe you would prefer chinese system to the Indian system, where individual rights are violated on a regular basis to protect state interests.

And therefore we cannot bash all pakistanis for no good reason. Because we are not hippies. If a person's fellow countrymen have committed a crime against us, that does not mean that that person suffer for this. He should be treated fairly despite of his nationality.

You know you have mixed two different cases of different levels of logics and emotions in one single post, one is Kasab and another is a question of enjoying the miseries of Pakistan. BTW I am an advocate by profession and I highly respect the law of my country more than others, I know the technical glitches and complexities of legal prosecution process, but seriously no one can stop me for laughing against Pakistan, I take it as my right. You know govt. can censor our Pakistan bashing any time but until they do it, it is legal here to bash Pakistan and Pukis. So I am just using my legal right to bash our enemy country BTW all my angers are only for terrorists and Pakistan, nothing else! whatever you said above except the bold part are not my thoughts, you are thinking too much my friend, let us enjoy our right to bash Pakistan.

 

[average american]

According to the Book No Easy Day they did not have instructions to kill Osama bin Laden. From the book "A lawyer from the White House or DOD made it clear this was not an assassination. If hes naked with his hands up, you not to engage him,, he told us. I am ot goint to tell you how to do your job. What were saying is if he does not pose a threat, you will detain him....."

Personally I am glad they shot him,, I dont want the drama. Evidently they got a boat load of records from his location, stacks of memory disks.....

 

[utubekhiladi]

No, this hasn't worked till yet. Indian army has repeatedly said that terrorist camps are still active across the border. But we are trying our best.

Since you have chosen option 1, it brings us the crux of the discussion. All I am asking the members is to refrain from using option 2, and for that I have been called a loser, a pakistani under Indian flag, an idealist, a novice in pakistani matters, etc etc.

DEFCON@

just

 

[utubekhiladi]

I meant do you support public hanging of Kasab without a fair trial??

fair trial and such things can :ka: my arse

i would hang kasab just for a candy bar..

 

[Defcon 1]

You know you have mixed two different cases of different levels of logics and emotions in one single post, one is Kasab and another is a question of enjoying the miseries of Pakistan. BTW I am an advocate by profession and I highly respect the law of my country more than others, I know the technical glitches and complexities of legal prosecution process, but seriously no one can stop me for laughing against Pakistan, I take it as my right. You know govt. can censor our Pakistan bashing any time but until they do it, it is legal here to bash Pakistan and Pukis. So I am just using my legal right to bash our enemy country BTW all my angers are only for terrorists and Pakistan, nothing else! whatever you said above except the bold part are not my thoughts, you are thinking too much my friend, let us enjoy our right to bash Pakistan.

You did not understand my point. The reason I gave example of Ajmal Kasab was to show you that terrible acts even against heinous criminals such as Kasab are not exempted from moral correctness. That is why we had to provide him a fair trial. In that case, how can you think that they would be exempted against the whole nation of pakistan???

It is wrong to say that "Pakistan is exempted from moral and political correctness", as every individual (or a society for that matter) enjoys unalienable rights. Hence, if someone says so, he is only saying it to suppress the moral guilt that comes from committing a wrong act against a society or an individual.

I have never questioned the legality of bashing. I have always questioned the morality of it, also pointed out how futile it is, and it results in negative progress. The worst thing that I believe it does is, spread negative sentiments among forum members.

 

[A chauhan]

Re:

You did not understand my point. The reason I gave example of Ajmal Kasab was to show you that terrible acts even against heinous criminals such as Kasab are not exempted from moral correctness. That is why we had to provide him a fair trial. In that case, how can you think that they would be exempted against the whole nation of pakistan???

It is wrong to say that "Pakistan is exempted from moral and political correctness", as every individual (or a society for that matter) enjoys unalienable rights. Hence, if someone says so, he is only saying it to suppress the moral guilt that comes from committing a wrong act against a society or an individual.

I have never questioned the legality of bashing. I have always questioned the morality of it, also pointed out how futile it is, and it results in negative progress. The worst thing that I believe it does is, spread negative sentiments among forum members.

Mate, who ever has dealt Islamists with such correctness has doomed. You can not take a country where the majority of the people dream to nuke India, so softly. You think we are laughing on their miseries but thats not so, they are not 'miseries' they are 'follies', they opted an Islamic state to serve it as a heaven for the Muslims of the world and for that they radicalised themselves, and as a result of that they failed to have democratic govt. there hence they are on the 124th position.

I have the right to laugh on the follies of my enemy, I love to see Pakis hitting the axe on their own feet, there is no comparison between that and Kasab's case, where is the question of morality here?. Seriously, I see no correctness and logic when you say that we shouldn't laugh on Pakistan, you know we Indians waited for 50+ years to see Pakistan being exposed and turning into a beggar state, it's only after 9/11 Pakis are reaping their misdeeds. The more they suffer the better for us, specially when that rogue state is run by fanatics who have nukes under their control.

Pakistan is reaping what it sown, and laughing on their follies is not morally wrong!

 

[Defcon 1]

Mate, who ever has dealt Islamists with such correctness has doomed. You can not take a country where the majority of the people dream to nuke India, so softly. You think we are laughing on their miseries but thats not so, they are not 'miseries' they are 'follies', they opted an Islamic state to serve it as a heaven for the Muslims of the world and for that they radicalised themselves, and as a result of that they failed to have democratic govt. there hence they are on the 124th position.

I have the right to laugh on the follies of my enemy, I love to see Pakis hitting the axe on their own feet, there is no comparison between that and Kasab's case, where is the question of morality here?. Seriously, I see no correctness and logic when you say that we shouldn't laugh on Pakistan, you know we Indians waited for 50+ years to see Pakistan being exposed and turning into a beggar state, it's only after 9/11 Pakis are reaping their misdeeds. The more they suffer the better for us, specially when that rogue state is run by fanatics who have nukes under their control.

Pakistan is reaping what it sown, and laughing on their follies is not morally wrong!

Renaming miseries to follies to avoid guilt is not right.

I don't know why do you think that we cannot deal Islamists with such correctness. In fact, we have an example of a man who dealt the british with correctness. It took him 28 years, but finally he was able to snatch the most precious jewel of the queen's crown without firing a single bullet.

Yes, they made mistakes in the past and now they are suffering due to it. But why should we dirty our conscience because of them?? We should hold higher moral ground and let the evil suffer for its action, rather than finding pleasure in other's sufferings and committing evil ourselves.

Pakistan's case is comparable to Kasab's in the sense that it has proved that justice can be delivered without ever falling to their level. Hence, rather than laughing at pakistan's miseries, we should let just karma take care of them. We should keep ourselves clean. This has always been the Indian way of life.

 

[A chauhan]

Renaming miseries to follies to avoid guilt is not right.

I don't know why do you think that we cannot deal Islamists with such correctness. In fact, we have an example of a man who dealt the british with correctness. It took him 28 years, but finally he was able to snatch the most precious jewel of the queen's crown without firing a single bullet.

Yes, they made mistakes in the past and now they are suffering due to it. But why should we dirty our conscience because of them?? We should hold higher moral ground and let the evil suffer for its action, rather than finding pleasure in other's sufferings and committing evil ourselves.

Pakistan's case is comparable to Kasab's in the sense that it has proved that justice can be delivered without ever falling to their level. Hence, rather than laughing at pakistan's miseries, we should let just karma take care of them. We should keep ourselves clean. This has always been the Indian way of life.

Renaming miseries to follies to avoid guilt is not right.

What guilt? Whatever Pakistan is suffering today is the fruit of their Follies and nothing else ! their rigid Islamic mentality never let them stand for a Democratic govt. system ! From Zia Ul Haq to Taliban they are reaping what they have sown. Let me tell you again Pakistan is at 124th position because of its Follies, follies due to their fundamentalist behaviour, that's all.

In fact, we have an example of a man who dealt the british with correctness. It took him 28 years, but finally he was able to snatch the most precious jewel of the queen's crown without firing a single bullet.

Gandhi? The same Gandhi was very sad and weeping after failing to stop when the country was divided as per the demands of those Islamists whom you want to deal with correctness. What did Anna Hazare get from the govt. for his correctness ? Gandhigiri can not be applied before Islamists, they will behead you.

Yes, they made mistakes in the past and now they are suffering due to it. But why should we dirty our conscience because of them?? We should hold higher moral ground and let the evil suffer for its action, rather than finding pleasure in other's sufferings and committing evil ourselves.

Pakistan's case is comparable to Kasab's in the sense that it has proved that justice can be delivered without ever falling to their level. Hence, rather than laughing at pakistan's miseries, we should let just karma take care of them. We should keep ourselves clean. This has always been the Indian way of life.

We are doing the same for last 60 years, what did we get ? Pakistan has been exposed by USA and not by us, How? They left the political correctness and acted as per the interest of their nation, people celebrated like Deepawali in New York when they heard about the death of OBL. Celebrating the follies of Pakistan is also like that, OBL caused 3000 deaths through 9/11 alone, while Pakistan has caused much more deaths than that in last 60+ years, through wars, terrorism and other means, OBL was enemy of US, here the whole Pakistan is our enemy.

 

[vishwaprasad]

I meant do you support public hanging of Kasab without a fair trial??

Fair trial? what fair trial?? A Foreigner sneaked by sea route into economic capital of India, kills 100 of innocents (many victims were the sole bread winner in their families) including our policemen...does this kind of person deserve any kind of fair trial???

It seems from your post, that you do. In that case, my friend, you are at an difference with people who wrote our penal code. Ever wondered why each criminal was given the right to a fair trial, despite his crimes?? Even after the crime has been established, there is further debate on the type of punishment that should be awarded to the criminal. That is precisely to keep ourselves falling down to the level of the criminals.

penal code is not written for a terrorist like Ajmal Kasab who declared WAR against India....Fair trials my foot... its easy to say such things for the people who were not the victims of his actions...go and ask the families who have lost their loved ones for no fault of their....still we have shown very tolerant attitude towards him by feeding him BIRYAANIS in the jail.

You might be right that US avoided a lot of trouble by killing OBL plainly. But was it justice for OBL, were those crimes people say he committed were proved?? No, now you may say that everyone knows that OBL is a bad man, but the law doesn't work like that. That is the difference between a national penal code and tribal laws. We need to ensure that punishments are given only after establishment of conduct of crime, and each individual is given some rights which cannot be taken away from him at any cost. If you believe that OBL killing was right, maybe you would prefer chinese system to the Indian system, where individual rights are violated on a regular basis to protect state interests.

Okay so his crtime was not proved??? what about Ajmal who committed this crime in front of thousands of eye witnesses, glimps captured by cctv's??? at least his crime was proven.....then what kind of fair trial you are talking about???

And therefore we cannot bash all pakistanis for no good reason. Because we are not hippies. If a person's fellow countrymen have committed a crime against us, that does not mean that that person suffer for this. He should be treated fairly despite of his nationality. Those pakistanis are our guests on this forum as should be treated so. Similarly actions of elite class of pakistan doesn't make the whole pakistani society subject to bashing.

wow....BW just posted some smileys and you are quick to lecture him on forum manners and here a Pakistani person who declared war against this nation (crime proven) should be given fair trial as per you and we become criminals for just posting smileys???? we become Pakistani bashers???keep this kind of thinking for yourself...don't try to force it on others...it is amazing that you wasted this thread by making issue of some smileys

and don't tell us about elite class Pakistani society...we also know that every Pakistani is not a terrorist...if something goes wrong with enemy then smileys are just a facial expression of joy which is natural as we have been victims on many occasions because of the actions that country.


btw you in post number #27 said that you spent time on PDF and at least they do not have dedicated threads making fun of India??? there used to be a pinned topic on Indian rituals and superstitions running from 2005 till today...there were many such threads and I have personally seen those....they are temporarily removed as their web site was under upgrade...eventually they will pop up again...there is a difference between bashing and just putting harmless smileys...follow those threads on PDF and you will see the difference

 

[Defcon 1]

What guilt? Whatever Pakistan is suffering today is the fruit of their Follies and nothing else ! their rigid Islamic mentality never let them stand for a Democratic govt. system ! From Zia Ul Haq to Taliban they are reaping what they have sown. Let me tell you again Pakistan is at 124th position because of its Follies, follies due to their fundamentalist behaviour, that's all.


Gandhi? The same Gandhi was very sad and weeping after failing to stop when the country was divided as per the demands of those Islamists whom you want to deal with correctness. What did Anna Hazare get from the govt. for his correctness ? Gandhigiri can not be applied before Islamists, they will behead you.



We are doing the same for last 60 years, what did we get ? Pakistan has been exposed by USA and not by us, How? They left the political correctness and acted as per the interest of their nation, people celebrated like Deepawali in New York when they heard about the death of OBL. Celebrating the follies of Pakistan is also like that, OBL caused 3000 deaths through 9/11 alone, while Pakistan has caused much more deaths than that in last 60+ years, through wars, terrorism and other means, OBL was enemy of US, here the whole Pakistan is our enemy.

You are repeating the same points which you said in your previous post. If you do not want to keep an open mind, then the discussion has no value.

I gave Gandhi's example to show the success he got from his ways. Since you are trying to disparage him, you obviously consider Gandhi as a failure. But not everyone will agree with you. He is our father of the nation for a reason. Majority believes in his ways we should as well, being his cultural descendants.

Also, as I have pointed out before, actions of elite class of pakistan doesn't make whole of pakistan as our enemy.

Fair trial? what fair trial?? A Foreigner sneaked by sea route into economic capital of India, kills 100 of innocents (many victims were the sole bread winner in their families) including our policemen...does this kind of person deserve any kind of fair trial???



penal code is not written for a terrorist like Ajmal Kasab who declared WAR against India....Fair trials my foot... its easy to say such things for the people who were not the victims of his actions...go and ask the families who have lost their loved ones for no fault of their....still we have shown very tolerant attitude towards him by feeding him BIRYAANIS in the jail.



Okay so his crtime was not proved??? what about Ajmal who committed this crime in front of thousands of eye witnesses, glimps captured by cctv's??? at least his crime was proven.....then what kind of fair trial you are talking about???



wow....BW just posted some smileys and you are quick to lecture him on forum manners and here a Pakistani person who declared war against this nation (crime proven) should be given fair trial as per you and we become criminals for just posting smileys???? we become Pakistani bashers???keep this kind of thinking for yourself...don't try to force it on others...it is amazing that you wasted this thread by making issue of some smileys

and don't tell us about elite class Pakistani society...we also know that every Pakistani is not a terrorist...if something goes wrong with enemy then smileys are just a facial expression of joy which is natural as we have been victims on many occasions because of the actions that country.


btw you in post number #27 said that you spent time on PDF and at least they do not have dedicated threads making fun of India??? there used to be a pinned topic on Indian rituals and superstitions running from 2005 till today...there were many such threads and I have personally seen those....they are temporarily removed as their web site was under upgrade...eventually they will pop up again...there is a difference between bashing and just putting harmless smileys...follow those threads on PDF and you will see the difference

Every person deserves a fair trial regardless of his crimes. This is the first thing you need to establish inside of your mind before we can talk forward.

 

[vishwaprasad]

Every person deserves a fair trial regardless of his crimes. This is the first thing you need to establish inside of your mind before we can talk forward.

And once again fair trials are for the people whose criminal activities are not proven or there are no eye witnesses...Ajmal's case is totally different....

 

[Defcon 1]

And once again fair trials are for the people whose criminal activities are not proven or there are no eye witnesses...Ajmal's case is totally different....

A case is said to be proven when it has been proven in a court of law, and not otherwise. It doesn't matter how many people have witnessed it.

And please come back to main topic of discussion.

 

[vishwaprasad]

A case is said to be proven when it has been proven in a court of law, and not otherwise. It doesn't matter how many people have witnessed it.

And supreme court has been confirmed that too + there are eye witnesses...still you are asking about fair trials....

And please come back to main topic of discussion.

Yes and topic was Pakistan ranked 124th amid 144 economies which YOU have diverted in totally different direction over some smileys and now asking others to stick to the main topic....lol....

 

[Defcon 1]

And supreme court has been confirmed that too + there are eye witnesses...still you are asking about fair trials....



Yes and topic was Pakistan ranked 124th amid 144 economies which you have diverted in totally different direction over some smileys and now asking others to stick to the main topic....lol....

You did not understand my point. I know Kasab has already been given a fair trial. That I why I used his example to show that we can still deliver justice in a manner completely confirming with our constitution and there is no need to fall down to the level of pakistanis.

Similarly, it is wrong to say that since pakistanis have wronged us, they should be bashed. We should hold the higher moral ground, and let them suffer for their actions. We shouldn't commit wrong deeds ourselves because of them.

 

[parijataka]

And supreme court has been confirmed that too + there are eye witnesses...still you are asking about fair trials....
Yes and topic was Pakistan ranked 124th amid 144 economies which YOU have diverted in totally different direction over some smileys and now asking others to stick to the main topic....lol....

Off topic, I hope you know Defcon1 is the new avatar of a Pakistani poster called ajtr who is doing her bit for love and peace between India and Pakistan, dont be misled by the flag!

 

[A chauhan]

You are repeating the same points which you said in your previous post. If you do not want to keep an open mind, then the discussion has no value.

I gave Gandhi's example to show the success he got from his ways. Since you are trying to disparage him, you obviously consider Gandhi as a failure. But not everyone will agree with you. He is our father of the nation for a reason. Majority believes in his ways we should as well, being his cultural descendants.

Also, as I have pointed out before, actions of elite class of pakistan doesn't make whole of pakistan as our enemy.

Every person deserves a fair trial regardless of his crimes. This is the first thing you need to establish inside of your mind before we can talk forward.

Naahh ! You are interpreting my posts out of the context of what I meant, I didn't say that Gandhi was a failure, he achieved something in that undemocratic colonial age what Anna Hazare has failed to achieve in this modern democratic state, yet he failed to stop the partition against Islamists which I was pointing out. Gandhi tried to oppose the partition of India : Gandhi's Passion

 

[Singh]

Also, as I have pointed out before, actions of elite class of pakistan doesn't make whole of pakistan as our enemy.

1. There is the petite burgeoise class of Pakistanis which supports Kashmir jihad.
2. There is the conservative part of the Pakistani society which supports n Islamic radicalisation, and jihad.
3. The landed elite of Pakistan which by virtue of being the ruling class is responsible
4. Then the Army which is anti-India
etc etc.

Very few sections of Pakistani society would actually not treat India as an enemy.

 

[Defcon 1]

Naahh ! You are interpreting my posts out of the context of what I meant, I didn't say that Gandhi was a failure, he achieved something in that undemocratic colonial age what Anna Hazare has failed to achieve in this modern democratic state, yet he failed to stop the partition against Islamists which I was pointing out. Gandhi tried to oppose the partition of India : Gandhi's Passion

I wouldn't talk about that as I don't have enough knowledge on the topic. But my question remains the same, should we dirty our conscience just because our enemies have done that too?

1. There is the petite burgeoise class of Pakistanis which supports Kashmir jihad.
2. There is the conservative part of the Pakistani society which supports n Islamic radicalisation, and jihad.
3. The landed elite of Pakistan which by virtue of being the ruling class is responsible
4. Then the Army which is anti-India
etc etc.

Very few sections of Pakistani society would actually not treat India as an enemy.

Same is the case with India. The people what books teach them. Look at farhaan's post claiming pakistan has always been separate from India.