Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[MuzzleVelocity]

Why NVGs ?!! Tombo is making quadtubes in India now. We don't need to go the amrika for optics

Haven't seen Quadtubes on their website though.

 

[rkhanna]

I don't know either, given Tonbo makes good quality stuff;

One complaint that I have heard that Tonbo's offerings are not of MIL-SPEC - they are fragile. A rough bump or two and the electronics get screwed.. they are working on it; in the meantime though....

Well turning something into milspec is hardly rocket science. That being said I am a bit suprised Tonbo has been exporting MilSpec Gear for a while now. And its been already 12 months since Tonbo Gear is with units on the LOC. I am sure there were teething problems and those have been/are being rectified in real time.

If there is a persistant issue. Cheaper and faster to get tonbo to work with one of the DRDO labs (funded by MoD) to get the desired outcome then spend good money on foreign gear. Till then we can limp along with what we now.

Spending Forex on Gucci Gear when clear Quality Substitutes (even on delivery timelines) are available in India is criminal. Anyways American Kit will have to go through the same teething problems in India.

 

[Bhadra]

OFB 5.56 is overcooked. Too much powder. It has caused several Tavors and M4s to crack wide open. And many INSASes too, now that I think of it.

What to do sir, if one ever watched how they fill explosive in cases and shells, one will be very scared of using their ammunition. most of them are temporary labour who enter the factory premises loaded with local brew, keep taking the brew inside the factory and are found sleeping here and there. At least that is how mortar and artillery shells are filled with hot liquid TNT slurry by hand.

 

[aghamarshana]

Haven't seen Quadtubes on their website though.

Interestingly, they DO have Quad tubes on their product offerings.

Just go to Tonbo>Products>Air>Enhanced Vision System>BNVD-P.

Here's the link brother.
https://tonboimaging.com/tonbo/portfolio/bnvd-p/

 

[binayak95]

What to do sir, if one ever watched how they fill explosive in cases and shells, one will be very scared of using their ammunition. most of them are temporary labour who enter the factory premises loaded with local brew, keep taking the brew inside the factory and are found sleeping here and there. At least that is how mortar and artillery shells are filled with hot liquid TNT slurry by hand.

Please, sir. Don't call me sir. I'm very young. A novice in all aspects.

And about the other thing, that part is so true. The first time I fired an INSAS, at the INA, the gun blew up ! Overcooked ammo, blew apart the lower receiver, broke the chamber. I got away with ringing ears and a blackened face.

 

[binayak95]

Well turning something into milspec is hardly rocket science. That being said I am a bit suprised Tonbo has been exporting MilSpec Gear for a while now. And its been already 12 months since Tonbo Gear is with units on the LOC. I am sure there were teething problems and those have been/are being rectified in real time.

If there is a persistant issue. Cheaper and faster to get tonbo to work with one of the DRDO labs (funded by MoD) to get the desired outcome then spend good money on foreign gear. Till then we can limp along with what we now.

Spending Forex on Gucci Gear when clear Quality Substitutes (even on delivery timelines) are available in India is criminal. Anyways American Kit will have to go through the same teething problems in India.

No disagreements from me, Sirji.

But Gucci gear for the SF is a but justified in my humble opinion, given the fact that they are the only ones with the skillset to make use of the slightest upgrades in the equipment.

Regular troops, should be always be given the minimum standards, and the best of the Indian products that meet or surpass the said standard.

 

[Bhadra]

Please, sir. Don't call me sir. I'm very young. A novice in all aspects.

And about the other thing, that part is so true. The first time I fired an INSAS, at the INA, the gun blew up ! Overcooked ammo, blew apart the lower receiver, broke the chamber. I got away with ringing ears and a blackened face.

That is all right sir,
You all people are highly respectable professionals of my country and deserve that much courtesy from a commander like me. I salute you all guys.
Keep it up.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

Interestingly, they DO have Quad tubes on their product offerings.

Just go to Tonbo>Products>Air>Enhanced Vision System>BNVD-P.

Here's the link brother.
https://tonboimaging.com/tonbo/portfolio/bnvd-p/

Nice !

Honestly Indian companies like Tonbo etc give me more hope than DRDO, BEL etc.

 

[rkhanna]

No disagreements from me, Sirji.

But Gucci gear for the SF is a but justified in my humble opinion, given the fact that they are the only ones with the skillset to make use of the slightest upgrades in the equipment.

Regular troops, should be always be given the minimum standards, and the best of the Indian products that meet or surpass the said standard.

I am all for the Gucci Gear. But there are some things that we make in India with the same current gen tech/quality AND the delivery timelines as the Western Kit and those can be bought locally. Infact it should be mandatory because FOREX leaving the country has its own overall impact on the economy and ergo national security of the country.

 

[aghamarshana]

Guys will this be our new standard combat fatigue?

 

[rkhanna]

Guys will this be our new standard combat fatigue?

this was probably bought by commander funds or the trooper with his own money. If this was a legit DPM upgrade then we wouldnt have old DPM bandana + black elbow pad and the vest with a third DPM. And the soldiers next to him with a whole new set of camo

Also personally I love the old olive DPM. Just get them made with new tech material / dry fit / nomex whathaveyou. Centralized production and single point spice via a tender for the entire military. We have a bucket load of textile firms good enough to make for Nike but not good enough for the armed forces. This local tailor jugad has got to go

 

[Bhadra]

this was probably bought by commander funds or the trooper with his own money. If this was a legit DPM upgrade then we wouldnt have old DPM bandana + black elbow pad and the vest with a third DPM. And the soldiers next to him with a whole new set of camo

Also personally I love the old olive DPM. Just get them made with new tech material / dry fit / nomex whathaveyou. Centralized production and single point spice via a tender for the entire military. We have a bucket load of textile firms good enough to make for Nike but not good enough for the armed forces. This local tailor jugad has got to go

Commanders nowadays hardly have any funds. Most of the time our soldiers buy the equipment out of their money.

Has "Paramount" developed into something worthwhile ?

 

[aghamarshana]

this was probably bought by commander funds or the trooper with his own money. If this was a legit DPM upgrade then we wouldnt have old DPM bandana + black elbow pad and the vest with a third DPM. And the soldiers next to him with a whole new set of camo

Also personally I love the old olive DPM. Just get them made with new tech material / dry fit / nomex whathaveyou. Centralized production and single point spice via a tender for the entire military. We have a bucket load of textile firms good enough to make for Nike but not good enough for the armed forces. This local tailor jugad has got to go

But sir,is it permissible for soldiers to buy the camo fabric of their liking? I mean we have a standardised pattern for the field,now this unit wears a different pattern-say a Digicam. I understand SF units can be flexible,but does regular infantry units(above pic is that of Dogra Regt.) have that flexibility too?
And ur opinion on currently used combat fatigues?

 

[Bhadra]

But sir,is it permissible for soldiers to buy the camo fabric of their liking? I mean we have a standardised pattern for the field,now this unit wears a different pattern-say a Digicam. I understand SF units can be flexible,but does regular infantry units(above pic is that of Dogra Regt.) have that flexibility too?
And ur opinion on currently used combat fatigues?

When the soldiers compete / participate in international level event such as joint training, they are provided some training grant etc. So they sometimes buy new equipment out of that or purchase out of Regimental Funds which a soldiers private fund or buy things out of their own money.

The standardised pattern is also used for normal training or practice training. But issuing new clothings to soldiers is subject to rules. If he is due he is given. Soldiers are known to buy lots of clothing and personal equipment on their own - like snow jackets, sleeping bags, rucksacks, socks, gloves, balaclava, vests, shoes, torches, wind cheaters and inner wears as Ordinance issue is substandard. In order to standardise, good units ask their civilian contractor to sell these items after checking the quality ensuring similarity of pattern / lot.

 

[aghamarshana]

When the soldiers compete / participate in international level event such as joint training, they are provided some training grant etc. So they sometimes buy new equipment out of that or purchase out of Regimental Funds which a soldiers private fund or buy things out of their own money.

The standardised pattern is also used for normal training or practice training. But issuing new clothings to soldiers is subject to rules. If he is due he is given. Soldiers are known to buy lots of clothing and personal equipment on their own - like snow jackets, sleeping bags, rucksacks, socks, gloves, balaclava, vests, shoes, torches, wind cheaters and inner wears as Ordinance issue is substandard. In order to standardise, good units ask their civilian contractor to sell these items after checking the quality ensuring similarity of pattern / lot.

Thank you for taking time to clarify,sir.

 

[rkhanna]

But sir,is it permissible for soldiers to buy the camo fabric of their liking? I mean we have a standardised pattern for the field,now this unit wears a different pattern-say a Digicam. I understand SF units can be flexible,but does regular infantry units(above pic is that of Dogra Regt.) have that flexibility too?
And ur opinion on currently used combat fatigues?

Lol the word "standardized pattern" is akin to calling the Virgin Mary a virgin.

 

[rkhanna]

Commanders nowadays hardly have any funds. Most of the time our soldiers buy the equipment out of their money.

Has "Paramount" developed into something worthwhile ?

That's why I said soldiers own funds. Unfortunately I am well aware of the current state of affairs.



Didn't understand your Paramount comment though.

 

[rkhanna]

But sir,is it permissible for soldiers to buy the camo fabric of their liking? I mean we have a standardised pattern for the field,now this unit wears a different pattern-say a Digicam. I understand SF units can be flexible,but does regular infantry units(above pic is that of Dogra Regt.) have that flexibility too?
And ur opinion on currently used combat fatigues?

Also not a question of are they permissible. The army has a policy of 2 sets of uniform and shoes a year per soldier . This gear is made by the worst of the worst quality by OFB which further outsources to random manufacturers. Hence no two units look alike to begin with.

Imagine the rigour the soldiers go through on a daily basis and then look at the shit quality. The 2 pairs don't even last ,3 months .The soldiers have no choice but to buy on their own .

 

[Bhadra]

That's why I said soldiers own funds. Unfortunately I am well aware of the current state of affairs.



Didn't understand your Paramount comment though.

Ok - Paramount is an equipment maker based at Dehradun active for about last 20 years. Supplies clothing and equipment for mountains and mountaineering. Though not of Swiss standard but lot of soldiers buy fancy equipment from him.

Not SOF level equipment though.

 

[Bhadra]

One open question to SF / SOF guys -

How many of you get training / otherwise exposures at Himalayan Mountaineering Institute, Darjeeling, Nehru Mountaineering Institute, Uttarkashi, Institutes at Manali and Auli ?

Do SF guys take part in mountaineering expeditions?