Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[itsme]

Wonder who all fits the bill?????

 

[Kshithij]

Deal will include training, spares, accessories (lights, sights, tripods etc), warranties etc

Cannot simply divide total deal/units and expect to come up with a realistic unit price.

That said, this is going to be a huge waste of money, no doubt for this kind of money OFB and DRDO would produce a weapon to IA standards bUt IA only wants a foreign product- shame on DM for allowing this farce.

Are you sure that this is imports and not make in India? Even make in India needs sanction of funds

 

[abingdonboy]

Are you sure that this is imports and not make in India? Even make in India needs sanction of funds

Either way it will be priced into the figures you have quoted bro.

Guess these will be make in India but that’s just going to make the costs higher, for such small numbers make in India is rather pointless.

 

[binayak95]

Either way it will be priced into the figures you have quoted bro.

Guess these will be make in India but that’s just going to make the costs higher, for such small numbers make in India is rather pointless.

We might see Punj Lloyd and IWI partnership be effectively used. Since the Tavor is already a weapon that is widely accepted by the IA. And the numbers are too small.

They will be probably be increased with the entirety of the Infantry getting them and then we have State Police Forces and CAPFs as well. I hope that this leads to a revolution in small arms industry in the state, but that's being too naive of me.

 

[Kshithij]

We might see Punj Lloyd and IWI partnership be effectively used. Since the Tavor is already a weapon that is widely accepted by the IA. And the numbers are too small.

They will be probably be increased with the entirety of the Infantry getting them and then we have State Police Forces and CAPFs as well. I hope that this leads to a revolution in small arms industry in the state, but that's being too naive of me.

Hmm... So, the cost for setting up of plants for private industry will also be given by government? Then it will cost that much initially and then reduce drastically for next orders. If most of the money is going for investment, it is money well spent.
I don't understand why do we need Tavor? Can't we be like Chinese who reverse engineer and make some modifications to rifles to give them a new name?

 

[binayak95]

Hmm... So, the cost for setting up of plants for private industry will also be given by government? Then it will cost that much initially and then reduce drastically for next orders. If most of the money is going for investment, it is money well spent.
I don't understand why do we need Tavor? Can't we be like Chinese who reverse engineer and make some modifications to rifles to give them a new name?

1. The plant already exists and already manufactures guns. Which is why I said that I hoped they get the contract since they already have the infra.

2. The Tavor happens to be amongst the best assault rifles in the world and a gun that our troops are familiar with (an older variant at any rate)

3. The OFB reversed engineered and manufactured the FN FAL initially. Guess what? FN dragged us to the ICJ and the GoI was forced to pay royalties to FN. Do you want that to happen again? You want India to be branded as a nation that doesn't respect IPs? Or to end up in a situation like China, where most nations will NOT sell high-end tech because they don't want it to be copied? (Except the Russians who want money)

 

[abingdonboy]

Y

Hmm... So, the cost for setting up of plants for private industry will also be given by government? Then it will cost that much initially and then reduce drastically for next orders. If most of the money is going for investment, it is money well spent.
I don't understand why do we need Tavor? Can't we be like Chinese who reverse engineer and make some modifications to rifles to give them a new name?

You want India’s spotless IPR record to go down the drain that will mean it is sanctioned by pretty much every high tech company not just in defence but in every sector. Forget imported HSR, PWRs etc

China has indigenised out of necessity becuase it has these sanctions imposed against it. India will be set back decades if it finds itself in the same position.

 

[abingdonboy]

We might see Punj Lloyd and IWI partnership be effectively used. Since the Tavor is already a weapon that is widely accepted by the IA. And the numbers are too small.

They will be probably be increased with the entirety of the Infantry getting them and then we have State Police Forces and CAPFs as well. I hope that this leads to a revolution in small arms industry in the state, but that's being too naive of me.

Hopefully but wasn’t IWI going to offer the Galil and not the Tavor for this tender?


As for CAPFs and state police it’s doubtful they would go for this route given their meagre budgets. Am sure they will be serviced by OFB, to be honest for 1/2-1/3 the cost OFB 7.62*51 rifle is easily 90-95% as good as any foreign rifle comparable to it. Don’t see CAPFs having the same absurdly high requirements as IA so should be more than happy with indian equioment.

 

[binayak95]

Hopefully but wasn’t IWI going to offer the Galil and not the Tavor for this tender?


As for CAPFs and state police it’s doubtful they would go for this route given their meagre budgets. Am sure they will be serviced by OFB, to be honest for 1/2-1/3 the cost OFB 7.62*51 rifle is easily 90-95% as good as any foreign rifle comparable to it. Don’t see CAPFs having the same absurdly high requirements as IA so should be more than happy with indian equioment.

Let's see. Since IWI has developed a 7.62 NATO variant of the X-95 as well. But either way, both guns are very good.

 

[abingdonboy]

Let's see. Since IWI has developed a 7.62 NATO variant of the X-95 as well. But either way, both guns are very good.

Gonna come down to price and AFAIK Galil is he cheapest rifle they offer.

 

[Maddy_9UY]

Israeli delegation is in India, I think they would select Galil.

 

[Kshithij]

Y


You want India’s spotless IPR record to go down the drain that will mean it is sanctioned by pretty much every high tech company not just in defence but in every sector. Forget imported HSR, PWRs etc

China has indigenised out of necessity becuase it has these sanctions imposed against it. India will be set back decades if it finds itself in the same position.

FYI, these western countries seldom gives any meaningful ToT to India at all. The reason CHina has these sanctions is because they know that Chinese capability is good and any arms sales will make China quickly gain experience and make an alternative indigenously. In case of India too, ToT is only for screwdriver jobs. India has developed most of the items by itself. Russia is the only country that has given good ToT. Israel may be another country that offers ToT. But that is it.

Also, these guns are simple designs and there isn't much to reverse engineer. The cosmetics is really not much of a big deal. How will anyone even know about it if India says that it designed the rifle themselves? There is no reason to say rifles can't be similar

 

[VIP]

The budget and numbers of acquisition suggest foreign maal. Bhailog ab konsi foreign vali rifles, carbines aayegi ye socho.

 

[Doc Mozart]

We might see Punj Lloyd and IWI partnership be effectively used. Since the Tavor is already a weapon that is widely accepted by the IA. And the numbers are too small.

They will be probably be increased with the entirety of the Infantry getting them and then we have State Police Forces and CAPFs as well. I hope that this leads to a revolution in small arms industry in the state, but that's being too naive of me.

I think the way the tavor 7 aka 7.65 NATO version was announced just after the COAS announced the decision to source main batte rifles through a global tender, IWI might push the tavor instead of the galil, which would be better tbh. Although i am guessing the main competition it would have would be from the scar h as reports suggest that each rifle may cost about 2k dollars. For the 2nd part of the AR demand i'd rather see drdo AAR as the front runner since it would also offer the ease of supporting three different kinds of caliber even if that isn't a particular demand in the RFP.

 

[Vinod DX9]

Spike deal is back on track

 

[Doc Mozart]

According to Saurav Jha, both the galil ace 52 and the tavor 7 may have made the cut for the army battle rifle programme. Would be interesting seeing a single vendor i.e IWI offer two products for the same programme. IMO the Scar H may not be selected because of its high price. Also many users state that the rifle is quite harsh on the sights attached to it and they take a lotta beating.

 

[Adioz]

According to Saurav Jha, both the galil ace 52 and the tavor 7 may have made the cut for the army battle rifle programme. Would be interesting seeing a single vendor i.e IWI offer two products for the same programme. IMO the Scar H may not be selected because of its high price. Also many users state that the rifle is quite harsh on the sights attached to it and they take a lotta beating.

If we are certain of this, then can I buy Punj Loyd shares in anticipation of their JV getting the order?

On a more serious note, would our top brass be comfortable handing bullpup assault rifles to standard infantry formations. That would not make sense since currently the Infantry uses INSAS and familiarity and ease of use would be prime concerns. Also, the rest of the Army is going to use OFB 7.62X51 right? So Galil seems like a better choice.........

 

[FOXBAT ALOK]

If we are certain of this, then can I buy Punj Loyd shares in anticipation of their JV getting the order?

On a more serious note, would our top brass be comfortable handing bullpup assault rifles to standard infantry formations. That would not make sense since currently the Infantry uses INSAS and familiarity and ease of use would be prime concerns. Also, the rest of the Army is going to use OFB 7.62X51 right? So Galil seems like a better choice.........

If am not wrong then army reject OFB 7.62×51mm rifle in June 2017

 

[Adioz]

If am not wrong then army reject OFB 7.62×51mm rifle in June 2017

Source? Until then, I'll just assume that you are wrong. AFAIK, OFB 7.62X51 is alive and is being developed into a potent weapon with the help of user feedback.

 

[FOXBAT ALOK]

Source? Until then, I'll just assume that you are wrong. AFAIK, OFB 7.62X51 is alive and is being developed into a potent weapon with the help of user feedback.

Don't have any proof ..but I heard long time back in 2017..
BTW u have any pic of OFB 7.62×51