Liogkiy Mnogofunktsionalniy Frontovoi Samolyot (LMFS), a MIG and ADA production

jassi

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@ A.V: When i posted the thread, system showed me " Liogkiy Mnogofunktsionalniy Frontovoi Samolyot (LMFS), a MIG and ADA production" But i failed to geta hint that its about mig 5th gen. My mistake sir.
So is the idea of making Mig 5th gen with India is Dead now or there is still something cooking? Can anyone share any latest info?
 

Agantrope

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Good points made int he article but Problem is that Pak FA has a flying prototype while MIG will have to start from scratch . Question is Can we afford to wait for so long?
Shash, what we need is the technology now. RFom the inputs what we have with the tejas and LMFS of MiG we can do a good job, what the need of the hour is the stealth technology and the engine for the same flight :emot180: I know my asking is little too much :happy_2:
 

SHASH2K2

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Shash, what we need is the technology now. RFom the inputs what we have with the tejas and LMFS of MiG we can do a good job, what the need of the hour is the stealth technology and the engine for the same flight :emot180: I know my asking is little too much :happy_2:
Assume we commit to this project . Will MIG be able to pull up it socks so to work on this project quickly. I doubt if they have any experience in stealth design.
 

jassi

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Shash, what we need is the technology now. RFom the inputs what we have with the tejas and LMFS of MiG we can do a good job, what the need of the hour is the stealth technology and the engine for the same flight :emot180: I know my asking is little too much :happy_2:
I agree with you completely. We need technology badly. Pakfa wont give us all what we need. Even its being said that AMCA will be ready/near to ready by 2020, but i highly doubt it. Our experience with LCA is no so bright. On the other hand AMCA will be much more advance and powerful. Kaveri is hanging in between for years. New reports saying it will be ready by2020. But i think by that time there will be more advance engines in market and we again will be working on "improvement"
 

jassi

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Assume we commit to this project . Will MIG be able to pull up it socks so to work on this project quickly. I doubt if they have any experience in stealth design.
But SHASH dont forget they are working on planes for decades. If after all this LCA saga, our babus/Labs can thump their chest and can make claims for making AMCA till 2020, why cant MIG do it?
 

SHASH2K2

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But SHASH dont forget they are working on planes for decades. If after all this LCA saga, our babus/Labs can thump their chest and can make claims for making AMCA till 2020, why cant MIG do it?
Chest thumping is a different thing but implementing projects in reality is different. We all should expect extension in deadline . 2020 is too early for AMCA . We don't even have a flying prototype for it. We have created LCA but consultancy is still needed for some critical aspect of LCA MK2 . So I would say that designing one plane doesn't make us master of plane design specially stealth .Moreover neither us not MIG has any recent experience in stealth design . I am just a little apprehensive but I like the Idea.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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I support this program, Russians want to involve in our project AMCA..

Mig`s biggest advantage is its engineers and also the weakness..

Allowing MIG will be beneficial to project as they have huge experience in aircraft deigning and manufacturing, they will simple increase the speed of the project..

AMCA will be developed by Indians also Russians will have there version and France is already involve in Indian Defense industry also Russian..

I am just wondering abt the credits .. :special8:
 

anoop_mig25

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Heir mig on consultancy basis and we develop fully designs/ engines in i think we are laking and make sure that we gain rights to whole develop within india (as what pakistan is doing with jf-17).
 

thakur_ritesh

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Heir mig on consultancy basis and we develop fully designs/ engines in i think we are laking and make sure that we gain rights to whole develop within india (as what pakistan is doing with jf-17).
completely agree, if this collaboration has to happen then it needs to happen on our conditions, on our money and all the development right from the design stage to manufacturing of the product in india with india getting all the access to all sorts of technology that has gone in else we can and we should go alone on this even if it were to take us more than the estimated time.

time for role reversals!
 

pmaitra

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Most of the suggestions in this thread will be effective in the short term. However, India has to be self sufficient, not only in producing state-of-the-art defense products, but also in producing research scholars who will eventually innovate and design these very products. How long will India keep hiring foreign brains? What is India doing in terms or research and development? How is India training and grooming future scientists? Why is there not enough Ministry of Defense funded projects in our Engineering Colleges? Why not get professors and researchers from top notch institutes to come and train our future engineers and scientists? Even for a not-so-challenging aircraft project like the NAL Saras, India had to seek foreign assistance. Unless India succeeds in creating an environment of research and development, India will have to keep running to foreigners to develop any state-of-the-art product.

This not only holds for AMCA but also for even the smallest articles like a soldier's helmet.
 

hitenray09

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There were reports few year back that India would be partnering in Mig's 5th generation fighter program as it would give India better chances of understanding design and making of 5th gen fighter as Mig was just in starting phase of designing and making the fighter. Moreover it was said that it would be a lighter fighter as compare to T50. Also Pranab Mukharjee once admitted that India has discussed this subject with Russia. Here is a news talking about this:
http://kuku.sawf.org/Articles/5122.aspx

So anyone knows what happened next? Any new news about this project
i heard it has been dropped long back after iaf finalised to go for PAKFA
 

Kunal Biswas

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The project is probably restarted..
Its a answer to F-35..




 

Rahul Singh

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Ok guys lets take a break for a moment and think what IAF wants. As per Shiv Aroor, ACM has already conveyed his ask regarding level of indigenous content in AMCA. He is not ready to accept anything less than fully indigenous AESA, he wants DRDO single crystal blades in Kaveri , EW suit has to be fully indigenous so will have to be Data Links for C4I networking etc. Now where these all possibilities of involving Mig stands? He or his successors may loosen the ask but JV is something which they are not going swallow easily.
 

chex3009

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Ok guys lets take a break for a moment and think what IAF wants. As per Shiv Aroor, ACM has already conveyed his ask regarding level of indigenous content in AMCA. He is not ready to accept anything less than fully indigenous AESA, he wants DRDO single crystal blades in Kaveri , EW suit has to be fully indigenous so will have to be Data Links for C4I networking etc. Now where these all possibilities of involving Mig stands? He or his successors may loosen the ask but JV is something which they are not going swallow easily.
But are they gonna manage all these things for the AMCA, wouldn't this mean going the same path of DELAY that LCA faced for IAF's demands for all Indigenous AESA radar, EW suit, Kaveri.

I highly doubt if the demands stays this way, then we'll surely gonna see this AMCA no earlier than 2025!!!!!
 

shuvo@y2k10

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hal is already considering to hire saab on consultancy for amca project which is a good move as it will help us to learn the best of both world of aircraft designing-european and russian(pak-fa project)and incorporate it into the amca project. also i think there must be a competion in our aircraft designing industry.right now it is only hal,but private giants like mahindra,tata,l&t must enter the aerospace designing industry, may be hiring mig's retired engineers and scientist to
build expertise in this field.only then we can grow a aircraft military complex
 

Rahul Singh

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But are they gonna manage all these things for the AMCA, wouldn't this mean going the same path of DELAY that LCA faced for IAF's demands for all Indigenous AESA radar, EW suit, Kaveri.

I highly doubt if the demands stays this way, then we'll surely gonna see this AMCA no earlier than 2025!!!!!
Yes Chex AMCA's FOC is not expected before 2025 and this figure as per ADA. On others let me deal point to point.

AESA: An all Indian AESA is possible even by 2017. We should not forget that except signal processor and panal everything else in LCA's MMR is Indian. And it is only matter of time when DRDO develops T/R module(for X band) and signal processor to convert the existing LCA MMR into fully indigenous AESA MMR. Anyway by 2013-14 DRDO would have completed its AEW&C project and this will provide ample confidence and sufficient know how especially in radar modes.

EW : Mayawai EW suit is a comprehensive suite and is fully indigenous minus Israeli jammar. Like said earlier, it is only matter of time when DRDO develops jammer and seven to ten years is ample time.

Datalinks : BEL's Link II is already part of P-8I networking solutions and once inducted they will be integrated with Navy's C4I network. Which means LINK II is state of the art technology and C4I capable. For AMCA they only needs to improve it.

Kaveri: I don't expect fully indigenous K-XX by 2017 or even by 2020. Single crystal blade and nickel based light alloys are not easy stuff to master. So, i expect only JV Kaveri making into AMCA Block-1.

BTW DRDO is continuously working and they have managed some success. Who know what will be status after five years? Must mention that DRDO material labs have very good track record and in past they have managed to develop special steel for IAC when nobody expected anything other than Russian made on IAC. God willing by 2025 we may have fully indigenous Kaveri engine.
 

JHA

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Going for the indigenous ghost will not help..World has changed and so should we..Some companies are world leader in some systems. we just can not compete with them..Even US takes help of such companies..It will be in interest of IAF if we make a better plane with little outside support than an indigenous inferior plane..
 

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