LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Assassin 2.0]

Chal sojaa bhai .. lambi kahani hain

IAF did what it had to and no it's wasn't gov but the ADA DRDO team with poor planning who delayed it. Night

Just like they rejected the tejas in 2k17 and then ajit doval kicked top brass real hard to make them accept it. I'm cool with that.

 

[Kharavela]

It wasn't a tech demo but Tejas itself after 18-19 years from when the project was undertaken even then entered service due to pressure by MOD

Had you researched a little about LCA Tejas, you would have noted the timeline correctly. View this link:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_HAL_Tejas

1983
DRDO obtained permission to initiate a programme to design and develop a Light Combat Aircraft.
1984
Government of India set up Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in 1984 as the nodal agency for managing and developing the LCA.
1985
IAF submitted Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for LCA in October 1985.
1986
Government allocates ₹575 crore for LCA programme.
1987
Project definition commenced in October 1987 with French Dassault-Breguet Aviation as consultants. Dassault-Breguet were to assist in the design and systems integration of the aircraft, with 30 top-flight engineers reported to have flown to India to act as technical advisers to ADA, in exchange for $100m.
1990
Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged relaxed static stability aircraft.
Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems within India prevented full scale operations from starting.
1993
Full funding started from April 1993, full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.
1995
First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.
1997
Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) for LCA design work started at HAL’s Hyderabad division and the LRDE.
2001
4 January – LCA’s maiden flight successfully completed by Technology Demonstrator TD-1, on 2001. Prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee renames LCA as Tejas.
2002
6 June – TD-2 makes a successful maiden flight.
2003
Tejas crossed the sonic barrier for the first time.
25 November – PV-1 makes a successful maiden flight.

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[Kharavela]

On any standard, even for a western power having significant experience in building fighter jets, from fund allocation in April 1993 to first flight in January 2001 is remarkable.
Note: Actual developmental work began in June 1995.

 

[Kharavela]

Just like they rejected the tejas in 2k17 and then ajit doval kicked top brass real hard to make them accept it. I'm cool with that.

Credit goes to Late Manohar Parrikar, for revival of LCA Tejas programme. Many dalals & import loving chair marshalls had written obituary for LCA Tejas by then.

 

[no smoking]

On any standard, even for a western power having significant experience in building fighter jets, from fund allocation in April 1993 to first flight in January 2001 is remarkable.

That is BS. According to your own quote, the design was finalized in 1990. So, how did Indian scientists fund their design work before 1990? Their private bank accounts?

Note: Actual developmental work began in June 1995.

You just contradict your own quote, in Nov 1995, the TD-1 was already rolled out and you claim the actual developmental work began in Jun 1995? how did Indian factory built such a demonstrator in just 5 month?

Even by your time line, the project is too slow. It took India 5 years to make TD-1 to fly?

Let's have a look how experienced western countries perform:
Rafale, France announced to build the demonstrator in 1982, which made its maiden flight in 1986;
Eurofighter, the development effective begin 1983, first flight in 1986;

 

[vampyrbladez]

That is BS. According to your own quote, the design was finalized in 1990. So, how did Indian scientists fund their design work before 1990? Their private bank accounts?



You just contradict your own quote, in Nov 1995, the TD-1 was already rolled out and you claim the actual developmental work began in Jun 1995? how did Indian factory built such a demonstrator in just 5 month?

Even by your time line, the project is too slow. It took India 5 years to make TD-1 to fly?

Let's have a look how experienced western countries perform:
Rafale, France announced to build the demonstrator in 1982, which made its maiden flight in 1986;
Eurofighter, the development effective begin 1983, first flight in 1986;

Abe Chilli Chicken teri itni hakdi kaha se as rahi hain?

India is where China was in 2004/05 and now your sponsor in neocons have been replaced by RW populists in UK and US.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Had you researched a little about LCA Tejas, you would have noted the timeline correctly. View this link:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_HAL_Tejas

1983
DRDO obtained permission to initiate a programme to design and develop a Light Combat Aircraft.
1984
Government of India set up Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in 1984 as the nodal agency for managing and developing the LCA.
1985
IAF submitted Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for LCA in October 1985.
1986
Government allocates ₹575 crore for LCA programme.
1987
Project definition commenced in October 1987 with French Dassault-Breguet Aviation as consultants. Dassault-Breguet were to assist in the design and systems integration of the aircraft, with 30 top-flight engineers reported to have flown to India to act as technical advisers to ADA, in exchange for $100m.
1990
Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged relaxed static stability aircraft.
Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems within India prevented full scale operations from starting.
1993
Full funding started from April 1993, full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.
1995
First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.
1997
Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) for LCA design work started at HAL’s Hyderabad division and the LRDE.
2001
4 January – LCA’s maiden flight successfully completed by Technology Demonstrator TD-1, on 2001. Prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee renames LCA as Tejas.
2002
6 June – TD-2 makes a successful maiden flight.
2003
Tejas crossed the sonic barrier for the first time.
25 November – PV-1 makes a successful maiden flight.

Sent from my ASUS_X00TD using Tapatalk

Don't dude Don't do this to yourself . The project is late your post itself says it. It isn't about cancelling the project but to accept and question the responsible authorities to manage better.

This is not the first project which is delayed do you want them to learn and improve or you wish to continue wasting internet bandwidth with ridiculous posts?

You can do that I won't give a damn. Tc

 

[mayfair]

Better late than never...

Tejas MUST be inducted in huge numbers.

Dalaals can go suck a**

Having said that, lessons must be learned and the mistakes that happened and the delays that they caused should be avoided in the on going programmes - MWF and AMCA

 

[Armand2REP]

Having said that, lessons must be learned and the mistakes that happened and the delays that they caused should be avoided in the on going programmes - MWF and AMCA

That is really up to the performance of HAL. Their strike has been ruled illegal by the courts and now they are forced back to work unsatisfied and angry. Having a workforce looking for blood is not conducive to productivity.

 

[Defcon 1]

That is really up to the performance of HAL. Their strike has been ruled illegal by the courts and now they are forced back to work unsatisfied and angry. Having a workforce looking for blood is not conducive to productivity.

HAL is not run like a normal company. Their stock is down 30% since IPO. In many companies, after giving such performance CEO would have been sacked, or at least his compensation would have been impacted. HAL's chairman compensation is not dependent upon company's performance. That is why you see delays in production of tejas, delay in getting EASA certification for Dhruv. And some morons here still have gall to blame IAF

 

[Bhurki]

.......................
And what about there age old experience of building jets.?

India didn't know abcd of jets when we were creating tejas.

HAL Marut.....................................

 

[Flying Dagger]

HAL is not run like a normal company. Their stock is down 30% since IPO. In many companies, after giving such performance CEO would have been sacked, or at least his compensation would have been impacted. HAL's chairman compensation is not dependent upon company's performance. That is why you see delays in production of tejas, delay in getting EASA certification for Dhruv. And some morons here still have gall to blame IAF

IAF is an easy target.. funny though these lot will blame IAF for 27 Feb and not the fact Mirage 2000 upgrade Sukhoi delivery Jaguar update all are running late.

 

[Deathstar]

HAL Marut.....................................

Its lead designer was German Kurt Tank.......tthough it didn't achieve its full potential due to lack of capable engines.

 

[Armand2REP]

HAL is not run like a normal company. Their stock is down 30% since IPO. In many companies, after giving such performance CEO would have been sacked, or at least his compensation would have been impacted. HAL's chairman compensation is not dependent upon company's performance. That is why you see delays in production of tejas, delay in getting EASA certification for Dhruv. And some morons here still have gall to blame IAF

That is what I have been saying all along, there is no accountability or performance metric. The management is receiving perks they haven't earned and at the same time the staff hasn't earned what they were offered either. The staff wants more when the fact is none of the parties deserves anything. In fact they all deserve pay cuts until they can get back into profitability. It is time HAL starts paying penalties when they don't deliver on time. If they can't get the job done it is time to dissolve their contract and give it to someone else.

 

[Defcon 1]

That is what I have been saying all along, there is no accountability or performance metric. The management is receiving perks they haven't earned and at the same time the staff hasn't earned what they were offered either. The staff wants more when the fact is none of the parties deserves anything. In fact they all deserve pay cuts until they can get back into profitability. It is time HAL starts paying penalties when they don't deliver on time. If they can't get the job done it is time to dissolve their contract and give it to someone else.

Its the government's responsibility to fix accountability to HAL. To be honest, I am little disappointed by government's inability to act here. They have been very good in promoting private investment into defence. But for a country where private defence production almost didn't exist at all, private defence companies will take time to establish. In the meanwhile, PSUs and OFBs should been made more accountable. No so called "reforms" have reached defence PSU and OFBs. There was a glimmer of hope when it was announced that OFB will be turned into companies, but the government withdrew its decision in face of opposition and strikes.

And that is the sad part. We proudly boast that we hit pakistan after entering their territory, but retreat in face of blackmail by our own labor unions. That too when the government has achieved the biggest majority in last 30 years.

Anyways, end of my offtopic rant. Lets get back to LCA.

 

[Armand2REP]

Its the government's responsibility to fix accountability to HAL. To be honest, I am little disappointed by government's inability to act here. They have been very good in promoting private investment into defence. But for a country where private defence production almost didn't exist at all, private defence companies will take time to establish. In the meanwhile, PSUs and OFBs should been made more accountable. No so called "reforms" have reached defence PSU and OFBs. There was a glimmer of hope when it was announced that OFB will be turned into companies, but the government withdrew its decision in face of opposition and strikes.

And that is the sad part. We proudly boast that we hit pakistan after entering their territory, but retreat in face of blackmail by our own labor unions. That too when the government has achieved the biggest majority in last 30 years.

Anyways, end of my offtopic rant. Lets get back to LCA.

Now that they have issued an IPO they are a publicly traded company like Airbus. The government retains shares and the Golden veto but it is accountable to its shareholders. The board members need to be made up of non-government parties with the power to terminate non-performing executives. Until HAL is transformed into the publicly traded company it is supposed to be, it will continue to fail.

 

[Bhurki]

Its lead designer was German Kurt Tank.......tthough it didn't achieve its full potential due to lack of capable engines.

Tank provided guidance but detailed design and implementation was down to HAL, they were successfully able to field more than a 100 jets half a century ago.
To say they aren't capable will be foolery.
As far as lack of engines is concerned, its an irony you can use the same reason 50 years later as well.

 

[Deathstar]

Tank provided guidance but detailed design and implementation was down to HAL, they were successfully able to field more than a 100 jets half a century ago.
To say they aren't capable will be foolery.
As far as lack of engines is concerned, its an irony you can use the same reason 50 years later as well.

Its an absolute shame that we were relying on imports for Marut and still relying on imports for Tejas and AMCA. Only Sanctions can force us to develop our indigenous tech.

 

[Kharavela]

That is BS. According to your own quote, the design was finalized in 1990. So, how did Indian scientists fund their design work before 1990? Their private bank accounts?

I express my regret for not taking your reading inability into account while posting that.

1986
Government allocates ₹575 crore for LCA programme.
1987
Project definition commenced in October 1987 with French Dassault-Breguet Aviation as consultants. Dassault-Breguet were to assist in the design and systems integration of the aircraft, with 30 top-flight engineers reported to have flown to India to act as technical advisers to ADA, in exchange for $100m.

1990
Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged relaxed static stability aircraft.
Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems within India prevented full scale operations from starting.
1993
Full funding started from April 1993, full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.
1995
First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.

You just contradict your own quote, in Nov 1995, the TD-1 was already rolled out and you claim the actual developmental work began in Jun 1995? how did Indian factory built such a demonstrator in just 5 month?

I admit my typo. Please read that as June 1993 instead of June 1995. It took 2 years & 5 months for Tejas team to roll out TD-1.

Even by your time line, the project is too slow. It took India 5 years to make TD-1 to fly?

Let's have a look how experienced western countries perform:
Rafale, France announced to build the demonstrator in 1982, which made its maiden flight in 1986;
Eurofighter, the development effective begin 1983, first flight in 1986;

Do you even know that DRDO has to create each & every test facility for testing LCA Tejas ? Just think, our engineers & scientists have coded the Flight Control Software themselves, not imported or copied from some western manufacturer. First time in Indian aviation history, CLAWS were coded, tested & run in indigenous environment. Entire Tejas team had to work tirelessly for creating all such resources in 5 years.

You might not have seen first hand the financial difficulties India was facing during that period. In 1991, India borrowed $ 2 billion from IMF without which India would have defaulted on it's external payments. Can you think such things today when India has foreign currency reserves of more than $ 400 billion. It was strong political will shown by the then Prime Minister Mr PV Narasimha Rao in implementatin of economic blueprint prepared by Dr Subramanyam Swamy which changed India.

 

[Kharavela]

Don't dude Don't do this to yourself . The project is late your post itself says it. It isn't about cancelling the project but to accept and question the responsible authorities to manage better.

This is not the first project which is delayed do you want them to learn and improve or you wish to continue wasting internet bandwidth with ridiculous posts?

You can do that I won't give a damn. Tc

I agree with you that LCA project was delayed and IMHO Tejas should have been inducted before 2010. Having said that, we can not put all the blame on ADA / DRDO. The then governments, beaurucracy, IAF, HAL everyone had their share & motive to scuttle the LCA project. Even circumstances like sanctions after nuclear test play some role to delay the LCA project.
Only a small dedicated team of scientists & engineers led by Dr Kota Harinarayana gave their best to the project and because of thier never say die attitude, we are seeing Tejas flying in IAF Squadron.