LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[johnj]

????

For???

Case - US GPS
For strike role

 

[Chinmoy]

Case - US GPS
For strike role

I mean how Al-Tariq is even related to JDAM in Tejas?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

The Cobra manoeuvre, where an aircraft rapidly pitches its nose up and then recovers, It can help a pilot quickly change direction only when your enemy is right behind your ass(like literally) and has only guns remaining.

Usually when the fighter gets into dogfight and some one is at your tail there is no way with today’s fragmented rounds you will be alive to do cobra.

In today’s training it’s advised to pilots never to engage enemy in dogfights. If someone is somehow gets into dogfight try to disengage and fire IR missiles from distance.
BVR has low probability to hit as radar lock can be tracked and decoys or afterburners can be engage
IR missiles give no fckin warning no matter how advanced your MWRs are. Thr is no lock which your fighter can warn you off unless you see it with ur eyes and deployed flares after flares.

That is what happened on 27th Feb, BVR locked onto Mig21 and WVR locked onto F-16, Indian pilot got ample warning and time to eject, paki pilot never knew when IR hit his ass.

Some things wrong here

Cobra is not even useful in all cases when enemy is on your six with only guns. The only use of the cobra is if your enemy at your six, is flying too fast and not managing the closure rate (i.e. the rate at which he is approaching your plane). If they are managing closure well, then you become a stationary target for either guns or missile.

IR missiles are used mostly in dogfights only. Even in visual rage, if not in a dogfight regular radar guided missiles are preferred due to more robust lock and better kinetic performance. However, you are correct that pilots are told not to go into dogfights unless in extreme cases, since a dogfight means that only one of the two planes remains alive at the end. Due to very high cost of planes and pilots, most air forces will prefer to let enemy escape than to risk losing their pilot.

IR missiles actually do give a warning, though it is less reliable than RWR (Radar warning receiver). You can use MAWS to track any incoming missile.

Rest general idea is fine.

 

[johnj]

I mean how Al-Tariq is even related to JDAM in Tejas?

Both are same type of PGM.

 

[DumbPilot]

Some things wrong here

Cobra is not even useful in all cases when enemy is on your six with only guns. The only use of the cobra is if your enemy at your six, is flying too fast and not managing the closure rate (i.e. the rate at which he is approaching your plane). If they are managing closure well, then you become a stationary target for either guns or missile.

IR missiles are used mostly in dogfights only. Even in visual rage, if not in a dogfight regular radar guided missiles are preferred due to more robust lock and better kinetic performance. However, you are correct that pilots are told not to go into dogfights unless in extreme cases, since a dogfight means that only one of the two planes remains alive at the end. Due to very high cost of planes and pilots, most air forces will prefer to let enemy escape than to risk losing their pilot.

IR missiles actually do give a warning, though it is less reliable than RWR (Radar warning receiver). You can use MAWS to track any incoming missile.

Rest general idea is fine.

I would say that IR missiles are way better off at closer range to my knowledge. This might have changed in very very recent times - I say this because of several reasons:

- Radar guided missiles, while they may have a capability to pull high amount of Gs, their sensors don't have a big gimbal limit. For targets with high angular motion(that is, at close range), they may fail simply because by the time they can guide onto the target, the target itself has gone out of the missile seeker head

- Radar guided missiles don't work autonomously during launch. There has to be an initial "download" of target position and velocity information from the plane's computer to the missile's computer before the missile can release and fly to the last known position, hence there is a short delay while launching the missile

- Infrared missiles can be launched right away. They see the target, give audio feedback to the pilot, and then they are launched. They don't leave any sort of warning(unless if you have a MAWS, but even then I doubt it is accurate 100% of the time) because modern heat seeking missiles are smokeless.

- Infrared missiles have a very very high seeker head gimbal limit, upwards of 90° in most modern missiles - they can literally look 90° in a direction away from the direction of motion - which makes it very reliable, combined with a very very high maneuverabillity(ability to pull 50Gs+)

EDIT: I was talking about below 3nm to 5nm distances, otherwise using radar guided missiles is better. More lethal and kinetically able

 

[Chinmoy]

Both are same type of PGM.
View attachment 229221

So?

What is the context?

 

[johnj]

So?

What is the context?

Why only GPS version of Al-Tariq ??
What about EO/laser version ??

 

[Chinmoy]

Why only GPS version of Al-Tariq ??
What about EO/laser version ??

That's EO version for you

 

[johnj]

View attachment 229222

That's EO version for you

EOTS ??

 

[Chinmoy]

EOTS ??
View attachment 229223

IIR

 

[johnj]

IIR

Al-Tariq iir seeker capable of seeing targets around 100km ??

 

[Chinmoy]

Al-Tariq iir seeker capable of seeing targets around 100km ??

Might be, might not be. As per brochure it can see. But it don't even need to see it at that range in all practical purpose.

 

[johnj]

Source =
In first, Emirati guided weapons to be equipped on UAE’s French Rafale F4 fighter fleet

 

[Chinmoy]

View attachment 229227
View attachment 229228
Source =
In first, Emirati guided weapons to be equipped on UAE’s French Rafale F4 fighter fleet

WOW...

HAL has to take Tejas to Dubai to showcase Al-Tariq integration in it to IAF. Salute to the intelligence of the journalist.

 

[Narasimh]

time to compare!

 

[spacemarine2023]

time to compare!

not a fair comparison, Tejas has better thrust to weight and delta wing better overall design and engine.
I am just wondering how much of a beast Tejas MK2 will be with 414 engine with canards

 

[johnj]

WOW...

HAL has to take Tejas to Dubai to showcase Al-Tariq integration in it to IAF. Salute to the intelligence of the journalist.

UAE’s Al Tariq signs MoU with India's Bharat Dynamics - old news

''Salute to the intelligence of the journalist.'' - No need - journalist may or may not be lying - and from the article, it not journalist words but said by Theunis Botha, CEO of AL TARIQ
Also from current article

[no idea what is happening]
If it is for export - then good, if not then I'm confused.

 

[johnj]

not a fair comparison, Tejas has better thrust to weight and delta wing better overall design and engine.
I am just wondering how much of a beast Tejas MK2 will be with 414 engine with canards

How make a fair comparison b/w jf17 and lca mk1 ??
To understand lca f414, consider jas39 e/f.

 

[spacemarine2023]

How make a fair comparison b/w jf17 and lca mk1 ??
To understand lca f414, consider jas39 e/f.

Tejas MK2 vs Gripen E/F that will be comparison of equals… but I bet on MK2 newer design

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

I would say that IR missiles are way better off at closer range to my knowledge. This might have changed in very very recent times - I say this because of several reasons:

- Radar guided missiles, while they may have a capability to pull high amount of Gs, their sensors don't have a big gimbal limit. For targets with high angular motion(that is, at close range), they may fail simply because by the time they can guide onto the target, the target itself has gone out of the missile seeker head

- Radar guided missiles don't work autonomously during launch. There has to be an initial "download" of target position and velocity information from the plane's computer to the missile's computer before the missile can release and fly to the last known position, hence there is a short delay while launching the missile

- Infrared missiles can be launched right away. They see the target, give audio feedback to the pilot, and then they are launched. They don't leave any sort of warning(unless if you have a MAWS, but even then I doubt it is accurate 100% of the time) because modern heat seeking missiles are smokeless.

- Infrared missiles have a very very high seeker head gimbal limit, upwards of 90° in most modern missiles - they can literally look 90° in a direction away from the direction of motion - which makes it very reliable, combined with a very very high maneuverabillity(ability to pull 50Gs+)

EDIT: I was talking about below 3nm to 5nm distances, otherwise using radar guided missiles is better. More lethal and kinetically able

Your edit was my point exactly . When turn rates and all become an important factor, IR missiles optimised for it are good. But due to kinetic advantage, most radar guided missiles have a MAR of ~10 nm, within which they give a guaranteed kill unless notched or decoyed.