LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[NutCracker]

Sukhoi is a Bigger plane.

Yes , but he said Jf-17 can carry 2 , but article says 4.

2 probably with 2 fuel tanks.

Similarly why IAF is pressurising DRDO to reduce Astra weight below 150KG (RUMOR MAYBE) because exterme points can carry 150KG only.
But twin pylon changes the game.

We can have 2 Astra each at #2 and #6.

 

[rohit b3]

4 bvr and 2 wvr at once .

pretty sure we can do 6 BVR and 2 WVR , or just 8 Air to Air missiles total in Tejas mk1A if needed.
Inner pylons - 2
Mid pylons - 4 (dual pylons)
Outer pylons - 2

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Is there any other light combat aircraft which can carry such load and perform air policing like fa30 etc jf17 can only carry mere 2 bvr.

Gripen can do.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

How many bvrs can tejas mk1/mk1a can carry per mission.

Given the current config, 4 BVR and 2 CCM for CAP role.

With dual pylons, that will increase to 8 BVR and 2 CCM.

 

[IndianHawk]

pretty sure we can do 6 BVR and 2 WVR , or just 8 Air to Air missiles total in Tejas mk1A if needed.
Inner pylons - 2
Mid pylons - 4 (dual pylons)
Outer pylons - 2

Dual pylon are not envisaged for lca mk1/ mk1a. They are for mwf.

Anyway 4 bvr are more than enough for a small jet. Smaller jets have smaller radius of combat and do not have enough time to fire multiple bvr repeatedly. By the you fire one or two BVR you are either already in wvr realm or you have already turned back to base.

You need more bvr only if you wish too put enemy on backfoot for a while while lobbing your missile at Max distance and waste them like moron porkies did with aim120.

IAF doctrine calls for fire only when a kill is feasible. And for that 4 bvr are plenty.

 

[rohit b3]

Dual pylon are not envisaged for lca mk1/ mk1a. They are for mwf.

Anyway 4 bvr are more than enough for a small jet. Smaller jets have smaller radius of combat and do not have enough time to fire multiple bvr repeatedly. By the you fire one or two BVR you are either already in wvr realm or you have already turned back to base.

You need more bvr only if you wish too put enemy on backfoot for a while while lobbing your missile at Max distance and waste them like moron porkies did with aim120.

IAF doctrine calls for fire only when a kill is feasible. And for that 4 bvr are plenty.

Dual pylons is confirmed for 2 CCM, though it hasn't been tested yet. but correction on my part , Not sure if they can accommodate 2 BVR.
And i wouldn mind if there are more BVR missiles. Tejas can perform air superiority roles inside Pakistan if needed.
1 x Jammer pod/IRST
4 x BVR
2 x CCM
1 x Drop Tank
1 x Litening pod.

12 of these travelling together is a deadly combo for any incoming fleet.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

4 bvr and 2 wvr at once .

How many bvrs can tejas mk1/mk1a can carry per mission.

Given the current config, 4 BVR and 2 CCM for CAP role.

With dual pylons, that will increase to 8 BVR and 2 CCM.

Its mission dependent
For CAP and escort it is actually 2 BVR AAM and 2 WVR AAM.
2/3 Hard-points are consumed by drop tanks.
CAP mission do need higher flight time.

For intercept mission one can have 4 BVR AAM, 2 WVR AAM and drop tank.

A-G load-out is not clear.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

pretty sure we can do 6 BVR and 2 WVR , or just 8 Air to Air missiles total in Tejas mk1A if needed.
Inner pylons - 2
Mid pylons - 4 (dual pylons)
Outer pylons - 2

Even on paper Tejas Mk.1A can't carry 6 BVR and 2 WVR. Even if we somehow magically find a way for such load-out; Tejas Mk.1A won't have flight time to engage enemy with all these missile except when Tejas Mk. 1A is on intercept mission against huge PAF strike package.
Tejas Mk.1A only as a combat radius of 500km.

 

[NutCracker]

Even on paper Tejas Mk.1A can't carry 6 BVR and 2 WVR. Even if we somehow magically find a way for such load-out;

Without tanks its Combat radius will be very bad.

But theoretically for 6 BVR + 2 WVR What is the issue ?? Aerodynamics or available Width ??

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Without tanks its Combat radius will be very bad.

But theoretically for 6 BVR + 2 WVR What is the issue ?? Aerodynamics or available Width ??

First their are 7 hard-points. Till we don't have a proven dual rack we should not take it into consideration.
Tejas is inherently a smaller aircraft, even if weight might not be a issue for dual rack geometric volume (spatial space) will definitely be as issue.
Also BVR missiles appear are way to big/fat (width) to have dual rack with on-board ignition.
If you analyze Astra BVRAAM launch, its primary motor (engine) is ignited while the missile is on the rack.
This can cause problem with dual rack on small aircraft like Tejas.
1 hard-point will be consumed by Advanced Self Protection Jamming Pod (ASPJ).
1 hard-point will be consumed by FLIR/IRST pod (citation needed)

Practically we only have 5-6 hard-points depending what support equipment we decide to drop.

 

[rohit b3]

Even on paper Tejas Mk.1A can't carry 6 BVR and 2 WVR. Even if we somehow magically find a way for such load-out; Tejas Mk.1A won't have flight time to engage enemy with all these missile except when Tejas Mk. 1A is on intercept mission against huge PAF strike package.
Tejas Mk.1A only as a combat radius of 500km.

i was wrong about the dual pylons. Dual pylons is being developed for CCM, not BVR i thought earlier. And we need to consider that because its one of the major known upcoming upgrades.
And 500 kms combat radius is more than enough to dominate skies over Islamabad for good period.(Islamabad is 170 kms away from Srinagar)

 

[rohit b3]

Without tanks its Combat radius will be very bad.

But theoretically for 6 BVR + 2 WVR What is the issue ?? Aerodynamics or available Width ??

around 500 kms without tanks . More than enough to dominate over Pakistan.

 

[MirageBlue]

First their are 7 hard-points. Till we don't have a proven dual rack we should not take it into consideration.
Tejas is inherently a smaller aircraft, even if weight might not be a issue for dual rack geometric volume (spatial space) will definitely be as issue.
Also BVR missiles appear are way to big/fat (width) to have dual rack with on-board ignition.
If you analyze Astra BVRAAM launch, its primary motor (engine) is ignited while the missile is on the rack.
This can cause problem with dual rack on small aircraft like Tejas.
1 hard-point will be consumed by Advanced Self Protection Jamming Pod (ASPJ).
1 hard-point will be consumed by FLIR/IRST pod (citation needed)

Practically we only have 5-6 hard-points depending what support equipment we decide to drop.

View attachment 167230

Dual rack is coming with the Tejas Mk1A. Specially for allowing the SPJ on one of of the outboard pylons.

from Anantha Krishnan's article

 

[Alfalfa]

I honestly don't understand this obsession with increasing hardpoints on the Tejas, for a light combat aircraft with its existing endurance and range envelope not like it will keep switching mission profiles repeatedly... and given the limited number of air refueling AC we have, not like they will always be a tanker hanging around ready to give them unlimited endurance where they keep switching between A2A A2G SEAD mission profiles...

yeh armament carrying capacity craze is something jo mujhe samajh nahi aa rha

 

[NutCracker]

I honestly don't understand this obsession with increasing hardpoints on the Tejas, for a light combat aircraft with its existing endurance and range envelope not like it will keep switching mission profiles repeatedly... and given the limited number of air refueling AC we have, not like they will always be a tanker hanging around ready to give them unlimited endurance where they keep switching between A2A A2G SEAD mission profiles...

yeh armament carrying capacity craze is something jo mujhe samajh nahi aa rha

Obsession is not about armaments but about making it formidable with all defence/offence equipment like IRST and SPJ or MAWS and RWR. These pods are going to take pylons, but they give pilot confidence to fly with less things to worry about.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

around 500 kms without tanks . More than enough to dominate over Pakistan.

True if you fly without deviation in route but in operations that is not the case though it will be okay if we fly from Srinagar AFS and strike Skardu or PAF bases in POK or eastern edge of Punjab.

The problem is when doing CAP with no drop tanks you get air time of around 15-30 minutes which is less.

 

[DumbPilot]

True if you fly strait but in operations that is not the case though it will be okay if we fly from Srinagar AFS and strike Skardu or PAF bases in POK or eastern edge of Punjab.

The problem is when doing CAP with no drop tanks you get air time of around 15-30 minutes which is less.

Theoretically we could support that effort with aerial refueling tankers, but India doesn't have enough right now and it would be a major logistical stretch

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Theoretically we could support that effort with aerial refueling tankers, but India doesn't have enough right now and it would be a major logistical stretch

We won't have aerial refueling tankers flying so close to contested airspace.
It can be engaged by enemy fast movers with PL-15 (J-10s or JF-17s) or SAM.
HQ-9 has a range of 120km-250km.

 

[rohit b3]

True if you fly without deviation in route but in operations that is not the case though it will be okay if we fly from Srinagar AFS and strike Skardu or PAF bases in POK or eastern edge of Punjab.

The problem is when doing CAP with no drop tanks you get air time of around 15-30 minutes which is less.

that wont be the case but 500 kms gives us enough cushion and leverage to take diverted routes, etc to reach... Say.. Islamabad.
And doing CAP with Air to Air missiles, without drop tanks would still give it a flight time over an hour and a half.
Air time of 15-30 mins? Wtf. Mazaak chal raha hain kya edhar comment section mein?

 

[IndianHawk]

Its mission dependent
For CAP and escort it is actually 2 BVR AAM and 2 WVR AAM.
2/3 Hard-points are consumed by drop tanks.
CAP mission do need higher flight time.

For intercept mission one can have 4 BVR AAM, 2 WVR AAM and drop tank.

A-G load-out is not clear.

A-G load out generally consists of two CCM/ wvr + drop tanks ( flying low needs more fuel) + spice / hammer or other bombs.