LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[rohit b3]

So a major joint AF exercise is going to take place in Australia and the Imported Airforce is taking 4 Su-30MKIs, and no Tejas...

 

[MirageBlue]

Fund for MWF has been released years ago. If you are not aware of it then you are just wasting time of everyone.

Fund for initial 2 LSP also cleared years ago.

No where ADA/DRDO/HAL said fund crunch but I don't know from where you get these information.

MWF is a project not deal.
You brought and 2 uttam, GE 414 engines, IRST, flight computers and every subsystems. So what left?? 100 crores airframes?? Don't worry HAL can manage that.

May be you are hearing these propaganda for next 3 and 4th LSP.

I got it from a source that is very highly regarded for his inputs. As for your claim that funds for MWF were released years ago, please provide the proof.

 

[MirageBlue]

Somebody has already posted here few pages back.

Btw ... This is news from 2012/13

Then repost it. News from 2012/13 when MWF didn't even exist?

 

[flanker99]

Fund for MWF has been released years ago. If you are not aware of it then you are just wasting time of everyone.

Fund for initial 2 LSP also cleared years ago.

No where ADA/DRDO/HAL said fund crunch but I don't know from where you get these information.

MWF is a project not deal.
You brought and 2 uttam, GE 414 engines, IRST, flight computers and every subsystems. So what left?? 100 crores airframes?? Don't worry HAL can manage that.

May be you are hearing these propaganda for next 3 and 4th LSP.

The people spreading these "propaganda" are some of the staunch supporters of indigenous programs like indranil roy,saurav jha.
Hal/ada is currently building atleast 1 prototype with funds leftover from what was sanctioned in 2011-12 ...mpre funds will be needed for the rest

 

[Javelin_Sam]

The people spreading these "propaganda" are some of the staunch supporters of indigenous programs like indranil roy,saurav jha.
Hal/ada is currently building atleast 1 prototype with funds leftover from what was sanctioned in 2011-12 ...mpre funds will be needed for the rest

That's what everyone is saying. If they have money for 1 prototype, that should be used. Funds for the following prototypes will be evaluated once the P1 starts flying and improvements/ changes are identified and corresponding cost is decided. Then a detailed proposal is drafted to MoD which in turn consults MoF and CCS and money is allocated then. If HAL thinks they can use money left with them for P1, then it's upto them how they use it and build it. They didn't had to do the entire lengthy process of asking money during start of Mk2 project. They have the freedom. Because that money is part of cash already allocated to them earlier following the due and lengthy process. It's like
HAL : Hey me going to build a prototype. Needs cash.
MoD : How much
HAL : Don't know
MoD : Then know and come
-----There begins the detailed project proposal and component by component cost estimation that will add atleast 1-2 year delay before starting to build the prototype, going by Indian standards.

Instead HAL took this route:
HAL: Hey i am going to build the prototype of Tejas Mk2
MoD: How much cash u need?
HAL : Don't know. But i have some cash leftover from previous projects which i estimate is enough to build the 1st prototype. We would've an idea of cost estimate by the end of P1 and will file the cost estimate by the time P2 is planned.
MoD: Okay.

Read up on procurement processes atleast a bit. HAL MD is an employee of MoD. A detailed and time consuming process need to be followed by him to get every penny alloted which in turn can delay the program

 

[_merlin_]

Once you evaluate the first prototype and then provide funds, program gets delayed because you can only pay vendors after payment is released. Lead times being what they are, vendors will supply only after advance payment and program gets delayed as a result. If one is serious, funding has to be released now.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

Once you evaluate the first prototype and then provide funds, program gets delayed because you can only pay vendors after payment is released. Lead times being what they are, vendors will supply only after advance payment and program gets delayed as a result. If one is serious, funding has to be released now.

Like you know more than the developer

 

[DeadCritic]

Prototyping is not just about manufacturing airframes, there are so many subsystems that are imported or are already matured.
HAL needs funds to pre-order them so that everything is available during assembly.

 

[vishnugupt]

Then repost it. News from 2012/13 when MWF didn't even exist?

Tejas Mk2 word exist from 2008.

I got it from a source that is very highly regarded for his inputs. As for your claim that funds for MWF were released

 

[vishnugupt]

Reason of Tejas Mk1 delay.

 

[vishnugupt]

Gyaani Jha, Gyani Aroor, and many Gyaanis here and Twitter..... I have seen all.

 

[flanker99]

That's what everyone is saying. If they have money for 1 prototype, that should be used. Funds for the following prototypes will be evaluated once the P1 starts flying and improvements/ changes are identified and corresponding cost is decided. Then a detailed proposal is drafted to MoD which in turn consults MoF and CCS and money is allocated then. If HAL thinks they can use money left with them for P1, then it's upto them how they use it and build it. They didn't had to do the entire lengthy process of asking money during start of Mk2 project. They have the freedom. Because that money is part of cash already allocated to them earlier following the due and lengthy process. It's like
HAL : Hey me going to build a prototype. Needs cash.
MoD : How much
HAL : Don't know
MoD : Then know and come
-----There begins the detailed project proposal and component by component cost estimation that will add atleast 1-2 year delay before starting to build the prototype, going by Indian standards.

Instead HAL took this route:
HAL: Hey i am going to build the prototype of Tejas Mk2
MoD: How much cash u need?
HAL : Don't know. But i have some cash leftover from previous projects which i estimate is enough to build the 1st prototype. We would've an idea of cost estimate by the end of P1 and will file the cost estimate by the time P2 is planned.
MoD: Okay.

Read up on procurement processes atleast a bit. HAL MD is an employee of MoD. A detailed and time consuming process need to be followed by him to get every penny alloted which in turn can delay the program

Thats not how u would want to build things quickly and we want to build mk2 quickly.
Im sure u have heard of components that have long build times that need to be ordered much before u start building a prototype...can't have that with piecemeal funds.
Besides all that mk2 will mostly have modified version of proven tech from lca program..so much less risky any modifications req can be done on the go like kfx ...beancounting funds will get u programs delayed by decades

 

[_merlin_]

Like you know more than the developer

Its common sense (also needs it to understand)

 

[MirageBlue]

That's what everyone is saying. If they have money for 1 prototype, that should be used. Funds for the following prototypes will be evaluated once the P1 starts flying and improvements/ changes are identified and corresponding cost is decided. Then a detailed proposal is drafted to MoD which in turn consults MoF and CCS and money is allocated then. If HAL thinks they can use money left with them for P1, then it's upto them how they use it and build it. They didn't had to do the entire lengthy process of asking money during start of Mk2 project. They have the freedom. Because that money is part of cash already allocated to them earlier following the due and lengthy process.

If they follow this approach then we won't get the 2nd prototype in build till the first prototype is ready in 2023. Which will be quite a bad thing for a test program that is going to be very tight on schedule given the desire to get it into service by 2028-29.

Either you fund a program (and HAL can easily calculate how much funds it needs for the 3 prototypes it wants to build) fully and then issue tight deadlines or you're basically just setting it up for failure from the start. So simultaneously building a static ground test specimen and another 2 for flight test should've been the way to go. As of now, it's not clear that even a single one is being built.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[DumbPilot]

LCA doing R-73 testing.

You can observe both Russian and French inheritance in that HUD, which makes sense because majority of the pilots fly on either Russian or French equipment. (for comparison, Greek Mirage and Russian Su-35, respectively.)

A couple of interesting things:

This has to be the aerial target range. Currently target is at 2.3 nautical miles(4.2km) - we're using nautical miles, since you can see the waypoint marker in the lower right side say 000°/7.1NM(7.1 nautical miles to waypoint on a heading of 000°).

This is interesting, because the max radar range is 196 nautical miles, if I am correct -- that is equal to a range of 363km..

Comparatively the F-16 radar has a range of about 160 nautical miles(296km). Does this mean that this radar is an AESA..?


No idea what this thing in the middle means, though. Any guesses?

 

[lcafanboy]

 

[jai jaganath]

Today is raining tejas upgrades

 

[rohit b3]

As per open sources, Su-30MKI's N011M radars can track a Mig29 sized target(4m2?) at 140 kms.
Uttam mk1 can track a modern fighter sized target(2m2) at over 100 kms+.
So yeah , makes sense.
Further, N011M can track 15 targets simultanoeusly.
Uttam can track 50.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

As per open sources, Su-30MKI's N011M radars can track a Mig29 sized target(4m2?) at 140 kms.
Uttam mk1 can track a modern fighter sized target(2m2) at over 100 kms+.
So yeah , makes sense.
Further, N011M can track 15 targets simultanoeusly.
Uttam can track 50.

In some articles it is quoted Uttam can track 100 targets simltaneously