LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[scatterStorm]

what is the so called SAR for?...lol

SAR or (Synthetic Aperture Radar) one of the use cases is to do reconnaissance of land and sea targets. If you have a high resolution SAR then you can point your precision weapons accurately in all weather conditions, be it rain, fog or cloud cover, nothing can hide from it unless you are sitting with a tin-foil hat (pun intended) or underground.

 

[shiphone]

oh... you just 'looked up'... (yeah, no one tell you ''don't look up'' ...lol)

then how to do the so called passive SAR for a fighter FC RADAR?...lol...

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BTW. the KLJ-7 radar for the JF17 Block1 and 2....oh, 'SAR' ,such a big deal! quite something.....hohohoho.

 

[Lonewolf]

oh... you just 'looked up'... (no one tell you ''don't look up'' ...lol)

then how to do the so called passive SAR for a fighter FC RADAR?...lol...

------------------
BTW. the KLJ-7 radar for the JF17 Block1 and 2....oh, 'SAR' ,such a big deal!.....hohohoho.
View attachment 134077

quality of sar image ?? spamming chink should know more on topic which they gonna stir up , work harder 10 cent bot wumao

 

[arnab]

I have a question here, please help me with This, is Tejas able to Fire any type of BVR? Does Tejas have a gun? Pakis are claiming that Tejas doesn't have Capability to fire BVR and doesn't have a gun. Please explain here.

any type of BVR?-only when radar is indian which is why uttam aesa is being made...bsides, tejas can fire, israeli BVRs and soon to be tested indian astras as well.
guns? yes they do...ground trials done...but guns dont play a major role in modern aerial combat.

u shud never take wisdom from pakis! thats a rule of thumb. even if our tejas somedau conducts a surgical strike in kashmir, they will cliam that tejas is a failure and IAF isnt happy...not entirely their fault though...we have our own snakes.

 

[scatterStorm]

oh... you just 'looked up'... (yeah, no one tell you ''don't look up'' ...lol)

then how to do the so called passive SAR for a fighter FC RADAR?...lol...

------------------
BTW. the KLJ-7 radar for the JF17 Block1 and 2....oh, 'SAR' ,such a big deal! quite something.....hohohoho.
View attachment 134077

You are good at reading brochures for sure. But haven't you "looked up a little closer".

We have a radar that can do SAR, there B3 (correct me if I am wrong) can't do even passive SAR, and our UTTAM can do active SAR.

JF-17 B3 has a passive SAR alright, but can it do active SAR and for sustained periods even though for few minutes. Why?

Because the engine isn't powerful enough to sustain active SAR. Go figure by reading another brochure.

PLAF and PAF don't have warfighting A2G experience. So let me enlighten you, we saw in KARGIL of what precision weapons can do over hill-tops and what bad weather could do to hinder quickly attacking positions at high altitudes.

Since PLAF is in its wet-dream hasn't realized it yet, an active high resolution SAR is like giving whole live broadcast of PLAGF positions over Himalayas. So genius, if you are flying in extreme cold climate, using SAR becomes a bonus, because you don't need to cool your AESA radar for doing A2G modes for sustained SAR imaging quite often and can switch to different radar modes with less radar downtime.

 

[shiphone]

again...what is so called ' passive SAR' (mode?) for a fighter FC radar?

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BTW. the EL/M 2032 is an 'old' radar with long history...2032 and the biger 2035 was offered to China in early 1990s, some were imported for study.... the export varient J-8T of J-8 family and J-7MF were supposed carrier... the integrated A2A weapon are western origined PL-11(Aspider) and PL-8(python 3)

 

[SARTHAK]

I have a question here, please help me with This, is Tejas able to Fire any type of BVR? Does Tejas have a gun? Pakis are claiming that Tejas doesn't have Capability to fire BVR and doesn't have a gun. Please explain here.

for u

 

[Super Flanker]

for u

Thank you.

 

[scatterStorm]

again...what is so called ' passive SAR' for a fighter FC radar?

In Passive SAR mode, you illuminate your geographical area of interest as one single static image. In active SAR mode, you do it in real-time. Both modes have a tradeoff, if your radar is only capable of doing passive SAR then its most likely that your AESA would not be in SAT (Search and Track) mode of air targets and can only paint a high resolution map as a static image, where most of the work would be done by an ML algo to identify targets, by the time your precision weapon hits the target, your target might've moved.

In an active SAR, you can do both, but again a tradeoff, you will still have high resolution SAR, but they are static, you can shut of SAT to go live mode. Again depends on how powerful your engines are to sustain that power to Radar and how better is your cooling. F35 can do both simultaneously.

FYI of how an active work


Update
Another tradeoff is whether your jet is over sub-sonic speeds and doing Active SAR or supersonic speeds and is still able to do Active SAR as rightly pointed out by @SARTHAK

 

[SARTHAK]

Thank you.

the question was about any bvr missiles operational on tejas ,answer has been given by HVT sir himself who is the best test pilot of iaf

 

[SARTHAK]

In Passive SAR mode, you illuminate your geographical area of interest as one single static image. In active SAR mode, you do it in real-time. Both modes have a tradeoff, if your radar is only capable of doing passive SAR then its most likely that your AESA would not be in SAT (Search and Track) mode of air targets and can only paint a high resolution map as a static image, where most of the work would be done by an ML algo to identify targets, by the time your precision weapon hits the target, your target might've moved.

In an active SAR, you can do both, but again a tradeoff, you will still have high resolution SAR, but they are static, you can shut of SAT to go live mode. Again depends on how powerful your engines are to sustain that power to Radar and how better is your cooling. F35 can do both simultaneously.

FYI of how an active work

and it takes time to achieve this on supersonic speeds for which uttam has been tested successfully

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

BS.

If IAF gets their head out of their a$$ and gives decent orders then production, ecosystem etc will take care of itself. Remember all HAL had before March 2021 was 16+16+8 orders, what kind of production capacity would you expect for such pitiful orders? 4-5/year is about all you can really expect.

The stupid games IAF has played with LCA is why Coke 2025 PAF will have 200+ JF-17 in service and will be onto the blk 3 whilst they are only up to 45 or so LCA and forced to still be flying the MIG-21.

I’ve been listening to the blue skies podcast that has detailed the LCA project using accounts from insiders (test pilots) and the picture they paint is pretty clear. One of them even mentioned that when he joined the test team the feeling within the IAF and LCA project was the LCA was merely a tech demonstrator.

one thing that podcast makes clear is IAF are perhaps the best customers in the world. They can create ASQRs like no one else but they are totally out of their depth when it comes to developing a product.

even with the MK1A what were they arguing about for 2 years between 2019 and the contract signature? They could’ve placed the contract a year earlier and they’d only have to wait another 12 months or so for the first MK1As to come online.

play stupid games, win stupid prizes

same stupidity is going to play out with LCA MK.2 but somehow it will be HAL/ADA’s fault, anyone but the IAF’s of course.

Why people forget past so easily…not here to defend IAF, but facts are facts the tejas mk1 was supposed to be a tech demonstrator/trainer with only 40 to be ordered with that airframe rest 250 were supposed to be mk2 variant which was 13.7m that time.
with HAL mismanagement and designing ordeal with ada the timeline for mk2 kept pushing further further…
there wasn’t any mk1a ever, ask yourself was it IAF fault??(they still ordered 83)
HAL IOC variants doesn’t even have interchangeable parts think about any airforce will be happy with that!
Soon ADA realised mk2 needs to be larger that 13.7m by a whole 1m.
a complete redesign needed which is why HAL pushed for mk1a and IAF agreed to it because MOD did put pressure and they had no other choice for replacing mig21. Still they ordered that what matters.
and rather using this opportunity to prove themselves and rollin out mk1a & mk2 sooner than anyone expected, But as usual they are extending their own given time line thats not very reassuring!!

You would think ADA & HAL would have learned it all from tejas program the required management skills but see how they are handling AMCA
so many design changes and pushing the roll out dates further…expect AMCA MK1a the way things are going…

Yes IAF problem is they act like customers and want everything and anything! They scrutinies like hell ! they don’t invest themselves in any project, but we need to accept ADA & HAL are also the culprits and in my opinion they are bigger ones!
they just need to create a platform competitive enough to what western are offering and be on time!
we need to be real tejas still can’t compete with the quality f16/f21 & gripen is offer(many will be offended by hearing this).
But it’s true!!
LM assured a production rate of 50 fighters in India for f21 if selected MRFA and i’m sure they can deliver!
how many of you are sure HAL can deliver 16-24 fighters per year??
If HAL could create a battle ready fighter with capabilities matching their western counter part MOD would have shoved it IAF‘s throat Period!

ALL ARE RESPONSIBLE
MOD :- doesn’t releases funds on time
ADA :- keeps changing design so fabrication of any mk1 or block cannot be proceeded. Design management is very questionable!
HAL :- Sarkari damad doesn’t take any pain, too causal no remorse if they delay or their product isn’t at par with global market(Sasur ji toh set krva hi denge)
IAF :- Like a girl out for shopping with daddy‘s money, loves glitters and shiny stuff(rafale/euro fighter) & nitpicking with everything daddy ask her to buy!


&
ending with pak getting 200 jf17 well they can get 400 fighters and only 40% will be battle ready rd33 is crap we use 2 of them mig29 still have lost pilots experienced pilots capabilities are shit they will be falling off they skies on their own!
they are the mig21 of pak the very reason they are going for j10ce!!
Forget pak compete with China…

 

[shiphone]

LOL...

read your own BS again,explain the LOGIC plz.... that's why I said you just 'looked up' or 'googled'

Yes, we are goodness-darn late, but with newer avionics, I can bet JF-17 would be a nice target practice.
We have a radar that can do SAR, there B3 (correct me if I am wrong) can't do even passive SAR, and our UTTAM can do active SAR.

 

[scatterStorm]

LOL...

read your own BS again,explain the LOGIC plz.... that's why I said you just 'looked up' or 'googled'

So what, didn't you read "Correct me if I am wrong". Can't you read?

Might I jog your memory a bit, replied to you that after your so called brochure run up, that it can do passive SAR, great there you go you have you answer.

Then you asked me to answer what's a passive SAR and to which I replied with a decent source.
Looks like you've picked a wrong guy buddy, let do an IEEE paper run up if you want?

 

[Whitecollar]

So what, didn't you read "Correct me if I am wrong". Can't you read?

Might I jog your memory a bit, replied to you that after your so called brochure run up, that it can do passive SAR, great there you go you have you answer.

Then you asked me to answer what's a passive SAR and to which I replied with a decent source.
Looks like you've picked a wrong guy buddy, let do an IEEE paper run up if you want?

Chinese have copied so many technologies from the whole world that they now think they have the best capability in every field. It's all grandeur and highness for Chinese till somebody decides to hit back.

 

[abingdonboy]

Yes IAF problem is they act like customers and want everything and anything! They scrutinies like hell ! they don’t invest themselves in any project, but we need to accept ADA & HAL are also the culprits and in my opinion they are bigger ones!
they just need to create a platform competitive enough to what western are offering and be on time!

I agree with the sentiment of your post but I can’t let this but go

So they ‘just’ need to create a globally competitive fighter based on ZERO industrial base, peanuts in funding , a customer that changes their requirements every few years and international sanctions thrown into the mix.

HAL and ADA have their faults but it’s grossly unfair to create this alternative version of reality that’s entirely ahistorical. LCA was effectively setup to fail, in fact before 2014 it was basically dead. MK1A is a shot in the arm that could change the course of Indian military aerospace or it could be squandered like the Meerut saga.

failing to learn the mistakes of the LCA program will ensure they are repeated , sadly it seems like that’s exactly what the intention is at this point. MK.2 is being set up to fail and I have less high hopes for TEDBF and AMCA these days.

+ LM assured of 50/year because they are one of the largest OEMs on the planet and the F16 is the most prolific 4th gen Western fighter jet. 1000s of F16s have been ordered, it’s beyond retarded (sorry no other word for it) to expect HAL to compete with such production rates with order commitments of 16+16+8. Production capacity comes FROM orders not the other way around. If IAF ordered 500 LCA I’m 100% sure that within 3 years HAL would be making 50/year or more if that’s what the IAF desires.

++ no evidence that the IAF can even absorb more than 1 squadron of 1 type these days so it’s entirely pointless to discuss this. HAL’s biggest weakness like all Indian defence companies is they are 99.9% reliant on Indian services for orders,babudom and outright corruption make this a fool’s errand.

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

So they ‘just’ need to create a globally competitive fighter based on ZERO industrial base, peanuts in funding , a customer that changes their requirements every few years and international sanctions thrown into the mix.

That what I already said peanuts funding worst part never on time! AMCA funding should been done atleast 2years ago…it’s been 3years since they are asking for it! Still nothing…

MOD :- doesn’t releases funds on time
ADA :- keeps changing design so fabrication of any mk1 or block cannot be proceeded. Design management is very questionable!

HAL and ADA have their faults but it’s grossly unfair to create this alternative version of reality that’s entirely ahistorical. LCA was effectively setup to fail, in fact before 2014 it was basically dead. MK1A is a shot in the arm that could change the course of Indian military aerospace or it could be squandered like the Meerut saga.

failing to learn the mistakes of the LCA program will ensure they are repeated , sadly it seems like that’s exactly what the intention is at this point. MK.2 is being set up to fail and I have less high hopes for TEDBF and AMCA these days.

+ LM assured of 50/year because they are one of the largest OEMs on the planet

Thats the same reason I talked about JV they are fruitful eg brahmos but going on further limb add a pvt Indian entity ISRO is where today some credit has to be for pvt players like godrej etc.
TATA & Mahindra are good entities and hungry to be in defence market so throw them a bone…
they will absorb more than HAL in this JV!

That could only be achieved via a competition… In which Tejas mk2 to be developed by Tata-LM & ORCA/TEDBF by Mahindra-Boeing, with ADA & HAL overseeing both the companies…and focusing totally on AMCA!

Thus two fighters will definitely meeting IAF standards and will be on time & which ever fighter IAF like the most can go with 200 of that and 100 of the other.

It will create an ecosystem and also reduce our dependence on foreign products plus two more potent platforms to sell in international markets.

better option that spending $20-25B for 114 rafale

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Can anyone here tell me the range and number of air to air missiles tejas can carry comparing it with much bigger aircraft like su30 mki
If tejas can carry same number of air to air missiles as su30 then tejas is much better than su30

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Can anyone here tell me the range and number of air to air missiles tejas can carry comparing it with much bigger aircraft like su30 mki
If tejas can carry same number of air to air missiles as su30 then tejas is much better than su30

I came to know that Tejas has 8 hardpoints and Su30 has 12 given that Tejas is much smaller in my opinion it beats su30 mki here as well

 

[mist_consecutive]

Can anyone here tell me the range and number of air to air missiles tejas can carry comparing it with much bigger aircraft like su30 mki
If tejas can carry same number of air to air missiles as su30 then tejas is much better than su30

I came to know that Tejas has 8 hardpoints and Su30 has 12 given that Tejas is much smaller in my opinion it beats su30 mki here as well

Tejas can carry 6 AAMs (4 of them BVR)

Su-30MKI can carry 14 AAMs (10 of them BVR)

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You can't compare light fighters and heavy fighters like that. It is like saying Tesla beats a Humvee because it is faster.