LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Rajaraja Chola

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Infact Mr Madhavan is the only CMD that I know of who has been repeatedly lying about delivery dates, kept failing on that too and still holds such a position without a single finger being raised on him.

Don't we all want such a "no strings attached" job in life??
Infact Mr. Madhavan is probably the only idiotic CMD ever who will start production and even delivery of items to clients without even an order or payment.
The dates initially quoted are estimates. It depends upon various factors. Including timely arrival of LRU from private sectors companies which many of you guys love. Or more importantly some timely payments/funding from IAF/GoI. Just 2 years back IAF had dues worth 20k crores forcing HAL to get loans to pay it's employees and it's suppliers. Do you know how long it actually takes for money from GoI to reach suppliers? Take a guess. It's 6m-1 year after delivery. Sometimes even more. Most companies have net 30 or 60 terms. Rarely net 90.

First let's ask GOI to sanction required funds exclusively and more importantly pay on time.to HAL so they can develop products in their own resources which they are doing.
 

Rajaraja Chola

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Mahindra is fresh from burning Gipps Aero to the ground. Please go thru this link & maybe your views will change:


Aerospace needs a culture that probably does not exist within the exalted business houses of Tata & Mahindra.
Interesting read. Mahindra also burned Korean car company. They took the tech from them but they failed to turn it around in Korea. That company also.had market in North America. They are good at slaving people around in India, but the same.practise probably won't work good around the globe.
 

LakshmanPST7

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@Kharavela
I don't want to continue this discussion anymore in this thread... We're literally spamming this thread...
This will be my last post...
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Have you read the IAF Doctrine last updated in 2012 ? Let me quote from that:
"Control of the air is seen not merely as the most fundamental role of airpower (to protect the nation-state from attack) and a vital prerequisite for all other operations but also as the capability to defend a nation and provide freedom of maneuver as a deterrent in itself."
Note the key-phrases "protect the nation from attack", "capability to defend a nation" and "deterrent in itself". As we know from the history, IAF never and I repeat never planned / executed an expeditionary mission.
First of all, I haven't read the 2012 document before... But since you asked me to read it, I read it a bit...

VISION of IAF in the 2012 doctrine says this--->
"To acquire strategic reach and capabilities across the spectrum of conflict that serve the ends of military diplomacy, nation building and enable force projection within India's strategic area of influence."

MISSION STATEMENT says this--->
"To be a modern, flexible and professional aerospace power with full spectrum capability to protect and further national interests and objectives."

I couldn't locate that particular sentence that you quoted in your post, but simply from the vision and mission statement of IAF, it is clear that IAF's doctrine is NOT limited to defending Indian Air space alone...
Note the words, "full spectrum of capabilities", and "enable force projection within India's strategic area of influence".

Full spectrum of capabilities include a lot more things than merely protecting Indian territory from incoming missiles and fighter jets...
It includes going offensive in enemy controlled territory among other things... Even if you have to simply defend your airspace, you need to go offensive...

IAF did conduct strikes in enemy controlled territory, latest example being Balakot strike... Balakot strike was done to further national interests and objectives as stated in the mission statement...

Tomorrow if IAF as tasked with going offensive inside China, they will do it... It is a part of their doctrine and whether they have done it in the past or not doesn't matter...
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please tell me Is it safer to use a manned aircraft in contested air-space ? Or a remotely piloted unmanned system (which is expendable) in such situation ? Imagine yourself as Theater Commander and decide, would you prefer to risk life of your men or send the expendable machine instead ?
If an enemy has vast number of Air Defence assets, you first take them down... To do that, drones at current levels of technology are NOT enough...
Even MUM teams are atleast 2 decades away...

You need Manned Aircrafts with longer legs to take down the AD assets... Men need to take on the spot decisions given the complexity of SEAD and DEAD missions...
If I'm a Theater Commander, I'd definitely risk men if I know that expendable machines can't do the job effectively...
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US Air Force must be dumb. :daru::daru:
The US Air Force is turning old F-16s into pilotless AI-powered fighters
F-16 into Pilotless AI-powered fighters
USA is converting F16s into UAVs to use them as target drones for training purposes...
They are not going to use these QF16s in offensive operations...

Using Kamikaze drones or decoy drones or Unmanned drones with AI are ideas on which many countries are working, including USA...

The author of that particular link combined both these things and wrote some gibberish... Next time please do not throw random links...

USAF are definitely not dumb... They know what they're doing...
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Converting retired MIGs into drones is an idea given by many internet warriors... But turning them into anything beyond Kamikaze drones is pretty useless... And I stand by my point...
Coz. no one knows how much the conversion costs, what are the additional costs required for support infrastructure, how much airframe life is left in them, how much can we rely on them to take-off and actually fly all the way to the target when required, what will be their shelf life after conversion, do we have reliable spares to keep them in flying condition...?

It is simply much easier to design new UAVs using latest technologies than relying on these old jets, which we are doing anyway...
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Our entire discussion started with you saying that 20 Tejas M1/1A squadrons are enough for IAF... I said that we need relatively heavier jets given the change in threat perception...
You in turn replied to it by saying that we need more UAVs and Drones instead of Manned jets...
I'm saying that AI enabled drones that can take down layered enemy AD assets are still many years away and we will continue to use manned jets for many years to come...

I guess there is no point in continuing this discussion anymore... I'm leaving it here...
 

Kharavela

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We cannot simply convert retired MIG jets into Unmanned systems... It doesn't work that way...
The best we can do with them is use them as Kamikaze drones... Beyond that, they're pretty useless after retirement...
It is better to build new UAVs than convert these vintage jets into UAVs...
I think the other poster has a point. Even if one converts the Mig into an drone, it's cost will higher through high maintenance. So will be the same for F16. Primary reason for drones is they are cheap to operate and maintain. USAF has money to probably convert some 100 fighters of thousands it operates. Do IAF has that luxury?
You guys are right. I stand corrected. Though technically feasible, its not economical to convert Mig-21 to Kamikaze or Combat drone.

I read this ->
Converting Mig-21’s To Drone, Is It A Good Idea?

I also came across another article which says ->
How India is converting the Kiran MK-II into an unmanned combat aircraft
 

LondonParisTokyo

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Any updates on LCA delivery and Mk1A delivery? Also how can you go from Mk1 to Mk1A but there's barely any Mk1s flying? Mk1a to Mk1b but no Mk1a flying? Mk1b to Mk 2 but there's no Mk1b? This makes no sense.
 

OnePunchMan

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bhramos

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How does one know its RD-33? The engine is covered?
Would it require redesign of air-frame and complete simulation of all parameters?
according to some sources RD-33MK needs little or minor modifications compared to any other engine...
 

MonaLazy

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just rumor chal raha hi, what if US implement CAATSA sanctions, what do we have options for back-up plan !
If the US is dumping us then the next obvious port of call is France. Should we not evaluate M88-2 for Tejas? It's lighter by 175 kg over the F404-IN20 & shorter by 36 cms (more fuel), slimmer by 19 cms. Not only that it offers better T/W both dry and wet! Will be far far more reliable also than RD-33. In all respects, it compares favourably with F404 & is leagues ahead of the Russian engine.
 

Javelin_Sam

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Any updates on LCA delivery and Mk1A delivery? Also how can you go from Mk1 to Mk1A but there's barely any Mk1s flying? Mk1a to Mk1b but no Mk1a flying? Mk1b to Mk 2 but there's no Mk1b? This makes no sense.
There are 24 mk1s flying from Sulur. Astra BVR and MBDA Hammer integration are going on. Remaining mk1s are waiting in HAL facility for some parts from Israel to arrive. All work from HAL part completed. First Mk1a will fly in June. After testing, production will commence from 2024. (3 years from signing the contract). There is no mk1b. HAL is the final integrator now having outsourced everything to private contractors. Parts has to reach them from the 100plus Tier 1 and Tier2 suppliers in time for them to deliver. Everything makes sense except your post.
 

Whitecollar

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There are 24 mk1s flying from Sulur. Astra BVR and MBDA Hammer integration are going on. Remaining mk1s are waiting in HAL facility for some parts from Israel to arrive. All work from HAL part completed. First Mk1a will fly in June. After testing, production will commence from 2024. (3 years from signing the contract). There is no mk1b. HAL is the final integrator now having outsourced everything to private contractors. Parts has to reach them from the 100plus Tier 1 and Tier2 suppliers in time for them to deliver. Everything makes sense except your post.
Come to think of it, what all parts are sourced from Israel for MK1 excluding ELTA MMR and SDR??
 

Dark Sorrow

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DRDO to display two tableaux during Republic Day parade 2022

Indigenous Sensor, Weapons & EW Suite for LCA Tejas and Air Independent Propulsion for submarines to be showcased



Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) will display two tableaux during the forthcoming Republic Day Parade on January 26, 2022. The tableaux are ‘Suite of Indigenously Developed Sensors, Weapons and Electronic Warfare Systems for LCA Tejas’ and ‘Air Independent Propulsion System (AIP)’ developed for the submarines of Indian Navy.


The first tableau displays an indigenously-developed Advanced Electronically Scanned Array Radar called ‘Uttam’; five different aerial launched weapons and an Electronic Warfare (EW) Jammer to further enhance the capabilities of fourth generation LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) Tejas. The ‘Uttam’ radar is highly compact and modular state-of-the-art sensor to provide situational awareness to the pilot. The radar is developed by Bangalore-based electronics laboratory.


The five aerial launched weapons include air–to-air missile ‘Astra’ which is an all-weather, active radar homing missile with beyond visual range striking capabilities; ‘Rudram’, a new generation anti-radiation missile with a capability to destroy adversary’s radar and communication systems; ‘Smart Anti Airfield Weapon, meant to destroy the ground targets and airfields; a long range guided glide bomb ‘Gaurav’ and ‘Tactical Advanced Range Augmentation’, an advanced precision strike weapon meant for ground targets. These weapons are developed using complex technologies by Hyderabad-based DRDO laboratories.


Tejas is fitted with ‘Advanced Self Protection Jammer’ designed to provide protection from acquisition radars, fire control radars, anti-aircraft artillery and airborne multirole radars. Developed by electronic laboratory at Hyderabad, it provides the electronic warfare capability for the LCA. Integration of these weapons, radar and EW systems with LCA is an important step towards increasing the indigenous content of systems and makes the LCA mission ready.


The second tableau showcases indigenously-developed AIP System for propelling the Indian Naval submarines underwater. The AIP System is powered by indigenously-developed fuel cells with a novel onboard hydrogen generator. It is one of the most advanced AIP Systems in the world where Fuel Cell Technology is used to generate onboard power. The AIP allows a submarine to be submerged for longer periods compared to conventional diesel-electric submarines and makes the sub-surface platform more efficient by making it quieter than even a nuclear submarine.


At present, the AIP is customised for P-75 class of submarine. Once fitted, it will allow the submarine to stay under water for longer time without the need to surface frequently. This will substantially enhance the underwater endurance of the submarine. This niche technology is available only with very few countries in the world. The DRDO has developed this technology with the collaboration of academia and industry.

 

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