LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Trololo]

One needs a aircraft with which one is most familiar with and easier to implement AI on . It is a test bed for a reason. Tandan seating will be a additional bonus in my opinion during the test cycle .

Sitara is yet to be certified and exists in prototypes only

When AI is validated , if need be it can be tested or utilised for Sitara for more complexity etc

I'm speaking from reliability and maintenance POV. The systems on the Sitara are very old, and modifying them for suitable telemetry information will be a pain.

 

[Roland55]

Guys this happened to Argentinian KAI FA-50 Fighter Deal.

Curious case of Argentinian fighter jets

Fighter jets are crème of the crop of any air force. They are crucial for protecting a country's airspace, a thing Argentina learned that the hard way during the Falklands war. But what became of its air force later?

www.aerotime.aero

The final blow
Finally, a potential seller that was far enough from the United Kingdom was found: in the summer of 2019 Argentina announced that Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) attracted their interest with T-50 advanced trainers. After the failure to push the aircraft through the U.S. T-X trainer program, KAI seemed like a willing provider.

There is a debate whether the FA-50, the combat variant of the T-50 trainer, could really be called a fighter jet. With its supersonic speed, ability to carry precision-guided munitions and provision for aerial refueling, it was miles above anything the FAA previously wielded. Still, it left a lot to desire in comparison with even the previous generation of purpose-built fighters, lacking both in power and in payload. Beneath all the upgrades it was still a trainer, designed to offer pilots a possibility to experience advanced weapons systems in a supersonic package, before transitioning to real combat airplanes.

Yet another problem was the size of the order. Mirages and Daggers long gone, the “new” A-4 ground attack planes were heavily aged as well, and reportedly, just a couple of them were still in flyable condition. Although official numbers on the FA-50 deal never came out, both Argentinian and Korean media reported the potential purchase of 10 jets. Although better than nothing, such a miniaturisation was nothing but extreme.

The contract was being worked on, but not yet finalized, when the COVID-19 pandemic struck. As the world’s economy began withering, expensive military hardware lost primary importance. In April 2020, KAI announced that the negotiations were on indefinite hold. Seemingly, this did not mean that they were cancelled – possibly, a renewal was to be expected as soon as the economic situation improves.

But then, on November 3, the Argentinian Defence Minister shared a letter from KAI, where the sale of the FA-50 was described as impossible due to six major components being manufactured in the U.K. and thus subjected to its arms embargo. It is unclear how the talks could progress to such a late stage without this fact being revealed.

Following the development, Julio Martinez – a former Argentinian defense minister, under whose guidance many rounds of unsuccessful talks were conducted in the 2010s – said that more aircraft have been lost during last years of inactivity than during the Falklands war. He pointed out that Fábrica Argentina de Aviones, despite employing over 1,500 people, did not produce a single aircraft in ten years. Which is not true – it produced several light trainers for pilots to train flying fighter jets that just are not there.

An argument can be made that the FAA does not really have a capability to maintain modern, expensive fighter jets – the entire defense budget of the country was around $4.6 billion in 2016, most of it covering personal expenses. A counter to that would be something like Finnish Defence Forces, whose budget – smaller by one billion – allows it to maintain a sizable air force with plans to heavily modernize it, possibly with 5th generation fighter jets. Norway, which in 2016 had similar spending to Argentina, continues to purchase a new batch of F-35s (the most expensive fighter jets currently available) every year.

It seems, it is very difficult to find fighter jets without any part produced in UK, Britain’s diplomacy, thus, finishing the job its Navy started doing in the early 80s. Another view of the situation – showing Argentinian stubbornness as the main culprit –- could be taken on, as it is quite clear that if the country does not try to normalize its international relations, it may never acquire any semblance of a capable Air Force. Thus, the diminishment of the FAA remains unrivalled in the rest of the World.

The main deal is not the Aircraft itself, its that our politicians have absolutely no interest in buying new fighters, Spain and Israel offered for quite a lot of years their Mirage F-1s and Kfir (upgraded) but there was never a interest by the gov to "seal the deal"

FA-50 has been replaced as only option by Pakistan's Jf-17... Who grabs every opportunity & probably will secure a dozen or two more orders, if it doesn't fall through.

Bhaiya Lost Argentinean Deal??? - What is it???

the deal which was notional ie which is still suspence???
And it is news that the Argentinean Deal is now grabbed by Pakistan!!!!!!!!

Congratulation to both Pakistan and Argentina.

Where is the Argentinean JF-17 Deal?

Argentina has not stablished a deal with PAK for the JF-17, believe it or not the FAA sent pilots to evaluate it to china (a few years ago), with mixed results and eventually discarding it for having "complicated logistics", where does this put the FAA, well they are looking for an aircraft that can replace the A-4AR, they are not satisfied with what the JF-17 Block 1/2 offers, but they also are considering other options (Yak-130, Kfir, M2000, etc).

When it comes to tejas, this could be a more than optimal choice, since its quite a solid machine, but the ultimate thing is, will the Uk put pressure on HAL to "cancel" a possible deal with the FAA for just 10/12 fighters?

 

[no smoking]

When it comes to tejas, this could be a more than optimal choice, since its quite a solid machine,

A jet just got FOC last year? I doubt that.
Tejas has to fly at least another 3 years in operation to accumulate enough data before Argentina consider
it.

but the ultimate thing is, will the Uk put pressure on HAL to "cancel" a possible deal with the FAA for just 10/12 fighters?

No UK doesn't need to press HAL. Instead, Rolls Royce and GE have close relationship. They have enough influence to persuade GE (or US government) not to provide maintenance to any engine on the Tejas sold to Argentina.

 

[vishnugupt]

Presently we are not in position to sell our strategic weapons around the world. We simply lake global supply chain. this will affect operability, maintainability and eventually suffer a bad reputation. Peruvian Druv export is an example.
These goody goody headlines just a message to neighbouring countries that we are ready to replace China in defence.

 

[samsaptaka]

Just co-opt with USN for CAT launch of LIFT Trainer NLCA and offer that solution for CATAPULT Launch Trainer also, that will be make NLCA a comprehensive NAVAL TRAINER across all type of AirCraft Carriers.

Learn about CAT Launch with USN, which will come handy while developing future IAC with Catapult.

If this happens then all aspects of 4.5 gen fighter aircraft development is achieved by India.

Some one should kick the HAL babus butts to first churn out the existing order in time. How the fk will they ever meet the IAF deadlines if this deal goes through ?

 

[Roland55]

A jet just got FOC last year? I doubt that.
Tejas has to fly at least another 3 years in operation to accumulate enough data before Argentina consider
it.

According to the chief of the FAA, the decision is going to be taken after 2023, by the next administration, sure that by that time Tejas will be in another "status"

No UK doesn't need to press HAL. Instead, Rolls Royce and GE have close relationship. They have enough influence to persuade GE (or US government) not to provide maintenance to any engine on the Tejas sold to Argentina.

In the case of the FA-50 the Foreign Office pressed BAE and other companies to neglect the licenses in the case of a contract with argentina, this certainly could happen with Tejas, since the provider of materials and internal valves are both british companies (Lee Products & Wilsons ltd). In the end we'll have to wait a few years for our choice to be made, i hope we dont go with the JF-17...

 

[Harry101]

Some one should kick the HAL babus butts to first churn out the existing order in time. How the fk will they ever meet the IAF deadlines if this deal goes through ?

I think they can complete the order on time if the deal goes through as most manufacturing jobs will be outsourced to public sector like it is being planned for LCA and HAL will only be the integrator. Most of the problems right now are because of cash crunch as domestic order means only shifting money from one pocket to other which are already near empty. This is direct deposit from the most economically stable (when it coms to military hardware procurement) customer in the world.

 

[Harry101]

I think they can complete the order on time if the deal goes through as most manufacturing jobs will be outsourced to public sector like it is being planned for LCA and HAL will only be the integrator. Most of the problems right now are because of cash crunch as domestic order means only shifting money from one pocket to other which are already near empty. This is direct deposit from the most economically stable (when it coms to military hardware procurement) customer in the world.

*Private sector

 

[DivineLight]

Some one should kick the HAL babus butts to first churn out the existing order in time. How the fk will they ever meet the IAF deadlines if this deal goes through ?

HAL alone can't speed up the process. Sh*tloads of sub -contracts and supply chains. Even if they want to scale up, it's not easy to scale up the whole supply chain.

Which component is homemade or under our control?(related to only operational aircrafts)

 

[patriots]

Ok LCA Tejas life time is 3000 flying hours

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Settle the deal for US Navy replacement of trainer aircraft and Indian Navy requirement for deck based fighter like this.

 

[Killbot]

Ok LCA Tejas life time is 3000 flying hours

Is that good or bad?

 

[patriots]

Is that good or bad?

F16 has 4000 flying hours

 

[Killbot]

F16 has 4000 flying hours

Please don't answer in riddles, I am new to this stuff.. A straightforward answer, please. For a fighter of its role (point defence aircraft), does the Tejas have a good life time or not, sir?

 

[patriots]

Please don't answer in riddles, I am new to this stuff.. A straightforward answer, please. For a fighter of its role (point defence aircraft), does the Tejas have a good life time or not, sir?

Ok it's a good number....
Tejas have a good life time

 

[mist_consecutive]

F16 has 4000 flying hours

Please don't answer in riddles, I am new to this stuff.. A straightforward answer, please. For a fighter of its role (point defence aircraft), does the Tejas have a good life time or not, sir?

Ok it's a good number....
Tejas have a good life time

Folks reading about flight hours, it is the time an aircraft can fly without MLU/overhaul.
Basically servicing as you do for cars/bikes, only at the more structural level, like accessing stress cracks, corrosion, and replacing those structural parts. Components with high wear-and-tear like gears/hydraulic pistons replaced etc.

An estimated flight hour of 3000 does not mean we need to Tejas throw away after that, only it needs to be overhauled.

It is to be noted, titanium/aluminum allow-based jets (like F-16, Mig-29) will always have more flight hours compared to a high-composite-based structure like Tejas, Rafale, F35 etc, simply because metals endure stress, strain, and shear damage better than composites, which tends to crack.

Few of our Mig-21s had endured more than 12000+ flight hours, before being decommissioned.

 

[Bleh]

Please don't answer in riddles, I am new to this stuff.. A straightforward answer, please. For a fighter of its role (point defence aircraft), does the Tejas have a good life time or not, sir?

It's an okay number & conservative estimate I'll warrant. I was hearing 3500 by the IOC being tested.

Presently apparently HAL & IAF have withheld deliveries if Sp-23,24,25... instead working to prepare the user to maintain the Tejas fleet at forward bases (unlike the exercises where HAL had to send manpower to maintain availability).
Until now Tejas were 1st deployed at Sulur etc. near Bangalore from where HAL personnel could help out.

They cutting the cord.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Advantages of LCA LIFT over its contenders in US Navy’s trainer competition.

1. It can mimic any aircraft while other 3 in competition can’t.
2. It has a single screen multifunctional wide area display while others have 3 screened MFD.

3. It is carrier capable while other 3 are not carrier ready.
4. It can be armed and used like a normal LCA Tejas and used in war like scenarios while other 3 trainers don’t have such facility or will need modifications for it.

5. Its engine is American (All 4 have American engines), but Italian offer might be rejected due to the fact that Italian offering is a Russian aircraft Yak-130 made in Italy. The South Korean, Swedish and Indian offers same GEF404 but Indian Tejas uses American made F404s with higher Thrust while South Korean T-50 uses licensed locally made F404s with lower thrust. While Indian LIFT and Swedish T-7A both use same F404s. Hence I have a strong feeling that India’s LIFT might be selected.

6. NLCA has a working carrier borne aircraft and LIFT simulators are ready.

7. LCA’s Crash free flying record for 20 years (Can’t say the same about others if they do have same record or not).

The only disadvantage is the fact that LCA LIFT is the most expensive offering among the 4 contenders hence HAL should lower the price of it to make its chances of winning increase a lot. Because we do have offered our LCA to Malaysia as well and will increase the reputation of LCA program.

 

[patriots]

It's an okay number & conservative estimate I'll warrant. I was hearing 3500 by the IOC being tested.

Presently apparently HAL & IAF have withheld deliveries if Sp-23,24,25... instead working to prepare the user to maintain the Tejas fleet at forward bases (unlike the exercises where HAL had to send manpower to maintain availability).
Until now Tejas were 1st deployed at Sulur etc. near Bangalore from where HAL personnel could help out.

They cutting the cord.

Bro 3000 hrs is the official number .

 

[Bleh]

Bro 3000 hrs is the official number .

Yes, i guys they're playing safe... 3 overhauls during lifetime.