Kolkata Class Destroyers Update

[arnabmit]

Cannot be. Avinash Chander said last week that first batches of LR-SAM will arrive in Sept for "Hot Trials".

It is carrying Barak-8 LRSAM.

 

[p2prada]

Cannot be. Avinash Chander said last week that first batches of LR-SAM will arrive in Sept for "Hot Trials".

Yes, the missiles themselves will be loaded next year. Only the radar and launchers are ready as of today. Basically, the destroyer is still toothless when it comes to air defense.

As for Barak-1, nothing is ready on the Kolkata, it will have to be retrofitted from scratch like how it was done on other destroyers.

 

[Apollyon]

In future (MLU) we may have a missile point defence system, Barak-1 or Maitri installed in place of 2 (out of 4) AK-630.

 

[p2prada]

In future (MLU) we may have a missile point defence system, Barak-1 or Maitri installed in place of 2 (out of 4) AK-630.

Maitri will be a good replacement for Barak-1, and we may see that on P-15B.

 

[arnabmit]

Maitri would be the same class as MBDS CAMM?

Maitri will be a good replacement for Barak-1, and we may see that on P-15B.

 

[arnabmit]

That's what I said. The VLS cells today are empty. Nothing in them.

Yes, the missiles themselves will be loaded next year. Only the radar and launchers are ready as of today. Basically, the destroyer is still toothless when it comes to air defense.

As for Barak-1, nothing is ready on the Kolkata, it will have to be retrofitted from scratch like how it was done on other destroyers.

 

[Bheeshma]

The plan was 64 Barak-8's no Barak-1. Barak-8 has minimum engagement range of 0.5 km, same as Barak-1 and hence no PDMS is really required.

 

[p2prada]

Maitri would be the same class as MBDS CAMM?

MBDA. Yes.

 

[p2prada]

The plan was 64 Barak-8's no Barak-1. Barak-8 has minimum engagement range of 0.5 km, same as Barak-1 and hence no PDMS is really required.

No such thing. Barak-1 is a different class of missile. It weighs less than 100 Kg and the most important point defense system. Barak-8 is a LRSAM and is in the region of 300 Kg. So, both are required as they form different tiers of air defense. Another tier is required in the form of very long range SAMs that have a range of 200 Km or more.

In 10 or so years we may eventually field SAMs with ranges of 1500-3000 Km like the AEGIS destroyers do.

 

[right wing]

No such thing. Barak-1 is a different class of missile. It weighs less than 100 Kg and the most important point defense system. Barak-8 is a LRSAM and is in the region of 300 Kg. So, both are required as they form different tiers of air defense. Another tier is required in the form of very long range SAMs that have a range of 200 Km or more.

In 10 or so years we may eventually field SAMs with ranges of 1500-3000 Km like the AEGIS destroyers do.

aegis destroyers dont have 3000km long sams!!!

 

[right wing]

maximum air defence range for aegis is 160...240km..https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20131128.aspx..not 1500km range sams..

 

[p2prada]

aegis destroyers dont have 3000km long sams!!!

SM-3 Block I has a range of 1500 Km and Block II 2500 Km.

Range will further increase with development of new rocket airframes and motors. Even as engagement height increases as newer ICBMs are invented.

 

[p2prada]

maximum air defence range for aegis is 160...240km..https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20131128.aspx..not 1500km range sams..

AEGIS is an entire family of missiles. Range is from what you posted up to 2500 Km, maybe more.

Welcome to the real world.

 

[charlie]

AEGIS is an entire family of missiles. Range is from what you posted up to 2500 Km, maybe more.

Welcome to the real world.

Aegis is not a family of missile, but it's an integrated combat system (Aegis Combat System)
Aegis system can take queuing from AN/TPY 2 radar or it can track the missile through AN/SPY-1 radar family

Aegis Combat System � Lockheed Martin

Standard Missile is a family of missile (SM-1, SM-2, SM-3 SM-3 Block IB,SM-3 Block IIA, Land-based SM-3 )

Standard Missile family has an interception range of more then 500 KM but it's not above 800KM.

AN/TPY 2 or AN/SPY-1 can track a IRBM from few thousand KM

STSS-D is a part of layered defence.

Now my question to you is why do you think you need an Inceptor missile with 2500 KM to hit a IRBM ?

 

[arnabmit]

Ya, typo.

Don't know why Astra cannot be made into a similar system instead of pinning hopes on reluctant MBDA for Maitri.

Astra MkI>> 40km AAM >> 15km SAM
Astra MkII >> 120km AAM >> 50km SAM

After all MBDA CAMM evolved from MBDA ASRAAM, and Maitri is supposed to be developed from MBDA MICA.

Only problem might be that: India is more or less at par in IR seekers, but desperately lacking in RF seekers & detectors technology.

MBDA. Yes.

 

[arnabmit]

In 10 or so years we may eventually field SAMs with ranges of 1500-3000 Km like the AEGIS destroyers do.

aegis destroyers dont have 3000km long sams!!!

SM-3 is an ABM & ASATM, not a SAM.

SAMs used in Aegis ships are SM-2 (RIM-66 with max 167km range or RIM-67 with max 185km range) or SM-6 (RIM-174 with max 240km range)

 

[Kunal Biswas]

In near future, Other vessels will get same suit as Kolkata class, As of now Barak-1 are imported when Barak-8 start its operational service over IN ships it will also be mass produce in country including the Radar ..

Barak-8 has minimum engagement range of 0.5 km, same as Barak-1 and hence no PDMS is really required.

 

[p2prada]

Aegis is not a family of missile, but it's an integrated combat system (Aegis Combat System)
Aegis system can take queuing from AN/TPY 2 radar or it can track the missile through AN/SPY-1 radar family

Not exactly correct. SM are all missiles that are ship-launched missiles. They don't have to be part of AEGIS. There are only a few missiles under AEGIS. The SM designation predates the AEGIS by a long margin.

What you have linked to is just the C3I system for AEGIS. Meaning, the program is called "AEGIS Ballistic Missile Defense System." Under that is the SM-3 which is a family of missiles and the AEGIS Combat System which is the C3I.

Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, when I said AEGIS only, I was referring to the entire program and not just the radar and network as you did.

Standard Missile family has an interception range of more then 500 KM but it's not above 800KM.

It's not range, it is altitude. The range is what I provided before for this type of missile. It is 1500 Km. There is a new missile called SM-3 Block II, which has an altitude engagement capability of 1500 Km and range of 2500 Km. And I am quite sure the altitude and ranges are actually underestimated.

AN/TPY 2 or AN/SPY-1 can track a IRBM from few thousand KM

Yes. The radars are in the MW class. They can track space debris. And they track ICBMs.

Track ranges for small ball sized targets should be in the thousands of Km.

Just so you know AN/SPY-1 should easily deliver 6 MW in peak power while the MF-STAR on P-15A should manage around 30 KW.

Now my question to you is why do you think you need an Inceptor missile with 2500 KM to hit a IRBM ?

In time, after our current generation of layered defenses are complete, the next threat will be submarine launched ballistic missiles fired from Chinese subs, and these are ICBMs. Our current and planned shield won't work against it.

It is natural that the Chinese will opt to use ICBMs if they realize we have an IRBM shield deployed. It becomes more important to take out the missile in the mid-course phase where the MIRVs haven't yet deployed. And the best place to do that would be the ocean, where debris and the warhead will not affect the impact zone.

 

[p2prada]

Ya, typo.

Don't know why Astra cannot be made into a similar system instead of pinning hopes on reluctant MBDA for Maitri.

Astra MkI>> 40km AAM >> 15km SAM
Astra MkII >> 120km AAM >> 50km SAM

After all MBDA CAMM evolved from MBDA ASRAAM, and Maitri is supposed to be developed from MBDA MICA.

Only problem might be that: India is more or less at par in IR seekers, but desperately lacking in RF seekers & detectors technology.

We failed when we tried making Trishul.

And Astra is still under development. We can't wait for them to finish Astra Mk2 development and then start a SAM development, that will take years. We needed Maitri deployed in 2010.

Maitri is actually the follow-on program to Trishul which was canceled by DRDO.

 

[p2prada]

SM-3 is an ABM & ASATM, not a SAM.

SAMs used in Aegis ships are SM-2 (RIM-66 with max 167km range or RIM-67 with max 185km range) or SM-6 (RIM-174 with max 240km range)

Semantics. All ABM systems deployed today are SAMs. In that respect, we shouldn't call the S-400 a SAM either.

I am talking about getting the capability on our ships, not whether it is classified as a SAM or not.