Kashmir issue resolution essential for lasting peace: Pak

Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
28,427
Likes
39,374
Country flag
If Kashmir goes it will mean 15 other countries also being formed out of India, it will send a positive message to all the other separtists that they can also get their separation from India.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
28,427
Likes
39,374
Country flag
What is there in POK mate? Just barren land with mountains. What is the use of having it?...we already have the economically Viable part. The PoK actually keeps China happy. If that is gone China is a cornered cat. China's only alternative route is the Karakorum Highway as the whole of South China sea and the Mallaca straits can be blockaded. so it is a strict no for PoK.
Satish why not let give the separaists in other places have the same fair treatment khalistanis, the ones in the northeast and probably in tamil nadu in the future too why favor one group over the other,let them all have their separation?
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
498
POK is an extremely imp geo-political location for India and we must have it. Period. If India agrees to make LOC as IB then it will embolden the terrorists and their handlers. Then they would believe that if they occupy an Indian land forcefully, deluge it with their sypathisers and skew the demographics and then after a certain time period, India will gladly accept the new status! That should not be the case. We must not give in to terrorists and their tactics, otherwise it will only embolden them to more adventerous and audocious attacks. Paks are frequently testing our reaction and if they sense any weakness on our part, they try to dig their dagger into our flesh. Kargil was case in point. If our reaction was slighly less robust, then they would have used the same arguement that they use for POK today.

At the same time, we need to remember that Pakistan is not about to drown to economy or other needs. Becoz US and China will not let that happen. We are not just against Pakistan, if that were the case we would have finished the battle long time ago. We are after all a much bigger, stronger and richer than Pakistan. We are actually against the present super power(US) and the aspiring one(China). That is the reason it has taken such a long time for us to defeat our nextdoor neighbour. Kashmir, POK and indeed India-Pak is a part of bigger geo-political game.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
28,427
Likes
39,374
Country flag
we have already tried the separation policy with nehru and gandhi creating pakistan and the policy has proven to be a failure so why should a repeat be successful? and by the way if kashmir is gone ,all the water coming into India will be in Pakistani and chinese control.
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
498
BTW, in 1947 India became independent and new country was carved out of it: Pakistan. There were some terms and understandings for this partition of India. All the terms and understandings were between India and the newly formed state Pakistan. The new state Pakistan was formed on the basis of two nation theory, it was formed on the premise that the new state was a home to all the muslims of India. And hence it demanded Kashmir valley on the basis of its muslim majority population. But in 1971, the Pakistan that was created in 1947 ceased to exist. In 1971, Bangladesh, erst while East-Pakistan(a muslim majority area) separated from West Pakistan. There was a genocide of bengali muslims by the punjabi muslims.

So, in 1971 two things happened. One Pakistan of today in not the same as Pakistan of 1947, hence India's understanding with the state of Pakistan prior to 1971 are subject to review. Secondly, West Pakistan or East Pakistan cannot claim for any parts based on muslim majority, simply becoz they are no more based on two-nation theory.
 

Daredevil

On Vacation!
Super Mod
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
11,615
Likes
5,770
LF, there is no way India is going to give Kashmir to Pakistan. What we are interested is how to get back POK into Indian union of states. One of the main reasons for bleating of the pakistanis is that India possesses the jugular vein of Pakistan's economy, that is, the origin of the rivers that go into the Pakistan. Cut-off the water to Pakistan, they are dead, they will squeal and scream but cannot to do anything. So, there is no question of giving Kashmir to the paks.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
28,427
Likes
39,374
Country flag
we can integrate POK by bringing economic development to the region and prosperity that the people will never have with pakistan,if people are not happy let them permanently leave to pakistan, as far as one inch of land being given up goes i rather see nuclear strikes before letting that happen.
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
498
let us for a moment think of the consequences had india attacked pakistan post 26/11. a divided pakistan that we see now where pak army is attacking and killing its own people which is sowing the seeds of resentment with in that country for a troubled future would have never been possible but on the contrary they would have stood united in the words of baituallah mehsud and confronted any attack coming from indian soil. pakistan was desperate for such a solution but thank GOD better sense prevailed on india's part and we never provided such a solution to them. best way of dealing with pakistan is let them fight and kill each other and if possible provide them with arms and ammunitions in doing that and in the process make them so weak that they disintegrate so that there is a separate baluchistan and we get back our kashmir which has been occupied by them. let us not be a solution to the problems that pakistan faces and we should never provide them with any such opportunities.
While I understand the larger point you are making, but IMO this kind of thinking is falling for the trap. If India were only facing Pakistan, we would have taken over POK long time back, heck we would have perhaps divided Pakistan into many more parts in 1971 itself. The fact is we are not just against Pakistan, but also US and China. Pakistan cannot drown becoz it will be kept afloat by the 'aid' from US and China. This has been going on from the time of independence, and this will continue in future. That is only reason for GOI to be restrained. When we take on Pakistan, GOI has to factor in both US and China's role, therefore we have to be so careful. Otherwise, who cares whether behtullah is with pakistan or against them. We can easily take on both talibs and PAs combo. That is not even a consideration for us.


Also, separation of Balochistan is not possible. No matter how worse the situation gets, Balochistan will not get independence. Just remember, 1971, the genocide of bengalis was going on, yet no one objected. Bengalis were resisting but they were simply being butchered. The freedom of BD was possible only becoz India entered and helped the locals. Similarly, Balochis will be butchered if need be, but they will not be granted freedom. Some outside power would have to enter and help the locals. May be Iran or India, but balochis cant succeed without outside help. Paks wont let them.
 

kuku

Respected Member
Regular Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
510
Likes
9
Country flag
I think what the Pakistani leadership has been stating forever is that they will continue to fuel terrorism in Kashmir district, and support any operations that Pakistan based terrorists carry out in India, unless the Indian government agrees to a permanent solution.

A mistake we commited was allowing pakistani army the space to deal in its tribal regions, we should taken the economically painful road, mobilised our foces to the border, intensified our support of pakistani sepratist movements and kept on the hostile environment. Kept them busy in their own home.

They are hurting economically and could not have sustained such hostilities for a long time.
 

thakur_ritesh

Ambassador
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
4,435
Likes
1,733
we can integrate POK by bringing economic development to the region and prosperity that the people will never have with pakistan,if people are not happy let them permanently leave to pakistan, as far as one inch of land being given up goes i rather see nuclear strikes before letting that happen.
LF,

people are very important aspect to the whole issue of kashmir. one reason other than many on which kashmir is important to india is secularism, and if we can have pok along with the people living there and if they can be integrated into the nation building process then that will be a big boost to the union of india and a big snub to all anti india forces trying to corner us on religious intolerance and also to secularism which is very important for our integration to stay the way it is. now if people living there are shunned or for that matter people in j&k are made to leave then that will be a big stain on our claim to secularism and this will send wrong signals to muslims and other minorities in india and as happened after gujarat riots there will be resentment in the muslim population, a stituation of which the pakistanis will certainly make full use. now think if we can get pok with people, all those voices against us in oic will be made to shut up for once and all and it gets important that we win support in that part of the world because as we will jostle for our space as a super/hyper power then we will require a lot of support from a lot of corners and all these countries will get very important for that support.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
28,427
Likes
39,374
Country flag
I think what the Pakistani leadership has been stating forever is that they will continue to fuel terrorism in Kashmir district, and support any operations that Pakistan based terrorists carry out in India, unless the Indian government agrees to a permanent solution.
maybe Indian govt should try the same approach until pakistan is broken, i am sure they will break pretty easy.
 

Daredevil

On Vacation!
Super Mod
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
11,615
Likes
5,770
I think what the Pakistani leadership has been stating forever is that they will continue to fuel terrorism in Kashmir district, and support any operations that Pakistan based terrorists carry out in India, unless the Indian government agrees to a permanent solution.
The only permanent solution is dismantling Pakistan itself. According to Pakistan, Kashmir problem will be solved permanently only when Kashmir is given to them. Do you think giving Kashmir to Pakistan will solve the problem permanently?. I don't think so.

The battle between Pakistan and India is not that of two countries but that of two ideologies. It is Islamic Vs Hindu ideology according to Pakistan and the rabid terrorists it hosts. No matter how much land you give them, they will try to devour whole of India till the Islamic caliphate is established.

Kick their butt while we can, no question of giving kashmir to them, it will only be of getting back POK into India's fold or making LOC as permanent border. Period.
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
498
LF,

people are very important aspect to the whole issue of kashmir. one reason other than many on which kashmir is important to india is secularism, and if we can have pok along with the people living there and if they can be integrated into the nation building process then that will be a big boost to the union of india and a big snub to all anti india forces trying to corner us on religious intolerance and also to secularism which is very important for our integration to stay the way it is. now if people living there are shunned or for that matter people in j&k are made to leave then that will be a big stain on our claim to secularism and this will send wrong signals to muslims and other minorities in india and as happened after gujarat riots there will be resentment in the muslim population, a stituation of which the pakistanis will certainly make full use. now think if we can get pok with people, all those voices against us in oic will be made to shut up for once and all and it gets important that we win support in that part of the world because as we will jostle for our space as a super/hyper power then we will require a lot of support from a lot of corners and all these countries will get very important for that support.
OIC, NATO, US, China, Russia...etc Everyone has their own agenda and they will pursue it. If we prove ourselves on secularism, they will unearth something else. Lets not take all these things too seriously. Pakistan has no problem with China crushing olighar muslims, why? becoz it suits them. Its just geopolitics at play, all the talk of moral is mere hogwash and not to be taken too seriously. Let not India strive too hard for the pat on back by anyone. If it is necessary to kill or shunt away a sizeable population of POK, so be it. Integrating is first and best option but never be fooled to believe that it is the only option. It certainly is not.
 

NikSha

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
337
Likes
3
we can integrate POK by bringing economic development to the region and prosperity that the people will never have with pakistan,if people are not happy let them permanently leave to pakistan, as far as one inch of land being given up goes i rather see nuclear strikes before letting that happen.
India already has spent shit-load of money for the "development" of Kashmir ignoring states like Bihar (which aren't trying to separate themselves from the hand that feeds them).

We don't need POK. Bringing "economic development" to Kashmir didn't really help us with anything, did it? Keeping that place a backward hellhole (well, more than what it is) would've changed nothing for the rest of the India.

Separatists aren't going to leave our Kashmir when we have spent so much money on it improving their lifestyle (and the travel industry). Why would they leave all that and go to POK? Why not just bring their backward ideas and separatist ideologies from across the border, thanks to new railway lines, into India? That's easier.

Also, India can't really afford attacking Pakistan. The whole point of these "talks" is to show the world that this region is peaceful and safe haven for foreign investors (who wouldn't be interested in India if we were busy going to war with every country in the region 24/7).

So forget any stern action over Mumbai attacks (there have been more, like the Diwali blast in Delhi itself, that didn't make the government do shit, what makes you think this time it'll be different?) from our government. Even if they wanted to (doubt it), rest of the India will suffer in the long run. So just humor them with talks, show the world how India is the "nice guy" and ignore any more terrorist attacks in the near future (we can just pray that the security has been improved since Mumbai attacks, but that's unlikely).
 

F-14

Global Defence Moderator
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
1,563
Likes
25
pakistan is acting like the Cat which drinks milk by closing its eyes and thinks that it is night
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
28,427
Likes
39,374
Country flag
Nik after 6 months of doing nothing no one was expecting any stern action from the indian government, and releasing the suspect was a slap in the face and an international embasrrassment to the dumb ,useless govt.
 

kuku

Respected Member
Regular Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
510
Likes
9
Country flag
To me it seems that for India district Kashmir Itself is not that big a problem, i have noticed their are more reports of naxal violence than violent incidents in Kashmir.

The real trouble is that the Kashmiri terrorist organisations based in Pakistan are able to carry out bomb blasts and attacks in rest of India.

And the government is unable to provide a strong enough reason for Pakistan to crack down on its shadow army.

They will keep on lying, like they did in the first war, when Pakistani army was trying to occupy kashmir dressed as tribal warriors, or like they did in Kargil with the NLI pretending to be kashmiri sepratists.
 

NikSha

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
337
Likes
3
Well, the bottomline is, we aren't going to war anytime soon (unless Pakistan, like Kargil, does something stupid). So those who are expecting something like THAT, well, you will all be disappointed. Our best bet is to go and whine about Pakistan to US who may or may not do something about it.

While we are at it, prepare ourselves for the future confrontations and improve our lifestyle. That'll do (that should and probably is the focus of this government).
 

kuku

Respected Member
Regular Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
510
Likes
9
Country flag
Pakistan already did another small scale Kargil, it was in Mumbai.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top