Kashmir conflict-India should act now?
- Thread starter Sabir
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Sweden is a small country. Linguistic, ethnically and religiously it is rather homogenous (although with a lot of immigrants it has become less so in the recent decades). This means many advantages, especially when it comes to democracy. It is easier for big countries not to respect human rights. Besides they usually have imperialistic ambitions.
Kashmir is more comparable to Sweden than India when it comes to size and number of inhabitants. But not much when it comes to homogenity. So I find it hard to understand how you can say the Kashmir issue is simple. Let us e.g. just take the national identity of Kashmiris: Indians or Pakistanis? What do they say?
LETHALFORCE
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so watching this "India Reborn" has made you an authority now?
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Comparing Sweden to Kashmir in any which way is like comparing oranges and apples.
I don't know what Pakistani part Kashmiris call themselves as, but I can say this based on my interaction with students from J&K that they call themselves as Indians and then only call themselves as Kashmiris, Dogras, Pandits etc.
All the conflicts in south asia are the legacy of british which were not solved subsequently by the south asian countries owing to various reasons like religion, culture, politics etc.
LETHALFORCE
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Yueballi shouldn't we also have immigrants be given the choice of having separate parts of the nations they have settled??
it was the britian's conspiracy to check the growth of secular india as it cannot be trusted so it left so many problems like mc mahon line with china so many number of princely states were left in india (unlucky) but we are lucky to have sardar patel who integrated india under iron hand but unfortunalely inspite of people and maharaja's choice to join india pakistan illegally occupied kashmir and our peace loving netas(nehru) contributed more to this occupation.
Will anyone question tibet for independence from china?
or baluchistan from pakistan ?
whereas 62 % have voted in kashmir and also they are only state given special status
just think over pok(pakistan occupied kashmir illegally),tibet,baluchistan
Will anyone question tibet for independence from china?
or baluchistan from pakistan ?
whereas 62 % have voted in kashmir and also they are only state given special status
just think over pok(pakistan occupied kashmir illegally),tibet,baluchistan
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US Kashmiris launch campaign against Pak
A prominent Indian American Kashmiri group in the US has launched a letter writing campaign appealing to US lawmakers to pressurise
Pakistan into acting firmly against terrorists groups operating from its soil.
In a mass e-mail sent out to Indian Americans across the United States, the Indian American Kashmiri Forum (IAKF) urged people to write a letter to their respective Congressmen to use their good offices to ensure that Pakistan takes action against the terrorists groups.
"As a voting American, I urge you to strongly encourage the government of Pakistan to fully commit its resources to destroying the numerous terrorist camps that exist in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and other territories under its control," says a draft of the letter.
"In lieu of the start of a new session of Congress, Indo-American Kashmir Forum is undertaking a letter-writing campaign to let your lawmakers know the urgency of forcing Pakistan to act firmly against terrorist groups operating on its soil," said Rahul Pandit of IAKF.
"These groups have a global agenda that starts with the disintegration of India," Pandit said urging people to send the letter to their respective Congressmen.
Asserting that Pakistan has not done enough in the wake of Mumbai terror attack, the draft letter says: "The only result that should be acceptable to the US is the actual dismantling of terrorist infrastructures by the Pakistani government."
The organisation says that there are enough evidences indicating that Pakistani officials and individuals supported, organised, and funded the November 26 carnage.
"Targets included prominent locations that attract Westerners, as well as a Jewish Chabad House, in order to inflict the most traumas to countries that combat terrorists," it said.
"The lone survivor of this attack was a terrorist with ties to the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), a group based in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir that was formed to violently overthrow the Indian government in the Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir and impose an Islamic theocracy," the letter said.
A prominent Indian American Kashmiri group in the US has launched a letter writing campaign appealing to US lawmakers to pressurise
Pakistan into acting firmly against terrorists groups operating from its soil.
In a mass e-mail sent out to Indian Americans across the United States, the Indian American Kashmiri Forum (IAKF) urged people to write a letter to their respective Congressmen to use their good offices to ensure that Pakistan takes action against the terrorists groups.
"As a voting American, I urge you to strongly encourage the government of Pakistan to fully commit its resources to destroying the numerous terrorist camps that exist in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and other territories under its control," says a draft of the letter.
"In lieu of the start of a new session of Congress, Indo-American Kashmir Forum is undertaking a letter-writing campaign to let your lawmakers know the urgency of forcing Pakistan to act firmly against terrorist groups operating on its soil," said Rahul Pandit of IAKF.
"These groups have a global agenda that starts with the disintegration of India," Pandit said urging people to send the letter to their respective Congressmen.
Asserting that Pakistan has not done enough in the wake of Mumbai terror attack, the draft letter says: "The only result that should be acceptable to the US is the actual dismantling of terrorist infrastructures by the Pakistani government."
The organisation says that there are enough evidences indicating that Pakistani officials and individuals supported, organised, and funded the November 26 carnage.
"Targets included prominent locations that attract Westerners, as well as a Jewish Chabad House, in order to inflict the most traumas to countries that combat terrorists," it said.
"The lone survivor of this attack was a terrorist with ties to the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), a group based in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir that was formed to violently overthrow the Indian government in the Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir and impose an Islamic theocracy," the letter said.
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US Kashmiri group launches letter writing campaign against Pak
A prominent Indian American Kashmiri group in the US has launched a letter writing campaign appealing to US lawmakers to pressurise Pak to act firmly against terror groups operating from its soil.
US Kashmiri group launches letter writing campaign against Pak - KashmirLive.Com
A prominent Indian American Kashmiri group in the US has launched a letter writing campaign appealing to US lawmakers to pressurise Pak to act firmly against terror groups operating from its soil.
US Kashmiri group launches letter writing campaign against Pak - KashmirLive.Com
I know too little about Baluchistan but, why not.....I would like to try that in the Pakistani Defense Forum. But I cannot post there any more.
I have discussed the status of Tibet. For doing that I have been banned from Chinese forums. So I appreciate the freedom here.
How did the Kasmiris vote? If 62% did not express dissatisfaction with their belonging to India, this definitely indicates that India has no reason to fear the result of a plebiscit. But if I have understood correct, this was only in the parts of Kashmir contolled by India. I have the feeling including the Pakistani part would be very risky. So wouldn´t it be best to seek an agreement with Pakistan to recognize the borders as they are today?
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No plebiscit is possible now I think...millions of Hindus have been driven out of Kashmir by the militants making a fair poll impossible..you may have read about the massacre done by Pakistan backed militant groups against the minoroties. New generation Kashmiris want to join the main stream of life...but decades of hostality has been erased the options for them. Large number of young kashmiries turned up for recent recruitment by Indian Army.
If you think the unrest in the valley for freedom ..just check the motto of the militants groups. Pro-independence group like JKLF now sidelined....the groups kept Indian Army busy are JeM, LeT- all Pakistan backed jihadi groups....God knows what is their motto...
If Pakistan stop their decades old "cut India with thousand wounds" policy Kashmir will become a prosperous peaceful state.
If you think the unrest in the valley for freedom ..just check the motto of the militants groups. Pro-independence group like JKLF now sidelined....the groups kept Indian Army busy are JeM, LeT- all Pakistan backed jihadi groups....God knows what is their motto...
If Pakistan stop their decades old "cut India with thousand wounds" policy Kashmir will become a prosperous peaceful state.
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yuebaili, you're trying to distort the meaning of democracy by taking it to the extreme. If you, as a resident of Sweden, manage to convince your family members that the area around your house and your backyard should become an independent country, should Sweden agree to your demands on the basis of "democratic majority?"
If your kids demand that their room be declared an independent country and others should not step into it, would you agree to it?
If the residents of a small Swedish town were to ask for independence, would Swden give it to them?
The purpose of these examples is to demonstrate that when referring to "democratic majority", the context is usually a national majority, not a localized one. As long as the national majority in India remains opposed to Kashmiri plebiscite, there cannot be one just because the Kashmiris ask for it.
There are good reasons for the national majority in India to be anti-plebiscite. It has been the firm belief of Indians, just like Europeans, who were fighting each other for thousands of years, that unless they joined together, foreigners will continue to invade India and inflict atrocities upon it, like they have done for the past 1200 years. When the British came and ruled India for 150 years, it finally dawned on Indians that, "United we Stand, Divided we Fall". And hence, any separatist movement in India after independence has been crushed with brutal force, with the rest of the country supporting the measures taken.
India is just like the EU, except that it is a single country. What the EU is trying to do, India has already done 62 years ago. India's independence was achieved by integrating more than 500 independent states in 1947.
There obviously cannot be a reversal now just because one component of the federation has not learnt through its mistakes over millenia.
If your kids demand that their room be declared an independent country and others should not step into it, would you agree to it?
If the residents of a small Swedish town were to ask for independence, would Swden give it to them?
The purpose of these examples is to demonstrate that when referring to "democratic majority", the context is usually a national majority, not a localized one. As long as the national majority in India remains opposed to Kashmiri plebiscite, there cannot be one just because the Kashmiris ask for it.
There are good reasons for the national majority in India to be anti-plebiscite. It has been the firm belief of Indians, just like Europeans, who were fighting each other for thousands of years, that unless they joined together, foreigners will continue to invade India and inflict atrocities upon it, like they have done for the past 1200 years. When the British came and ruled India for 150 years, it finally dawned on Indians that, "United we Stand, Divided we Fall". And hence, any separatist movement in India after independence has been crushed with brutal force, with the rest of the country supporting the measures taken.
India is just like the EU, except that it is a single country. What the EU is trying to do, India has already done 62 years ago. India's independence was achieved by integrating more than 500 independent states in 1947.
There obviously cannot be a reversal now just because one component of the federation has not learnt through its mistakes over millenia.
There is a Place called Nagapattinam, A worst affected place in India in 2004 Tsunami. In this place 99.9 % People are Muslims.... Do you mean to say we should hand over this Place to Pakistan?
Do we need to hand over the places to Pakistan which has more Muslim Population? What a foolish Idea.....
Remember... We are not a Hindu nor a muslim nation.
remember after partition of india into india and pakistan,india remained as secular but pakistan declared herself as islamic nation and also pakistan was made for muslim inspite of that many muslim brothers prefered to stay with us as we are secular and not religion fanatics,we cant allow any partition of india further as partion in 1947 itself should be avoided but as it was immediate after independence we cant do anything
Yue,
If there is a fight within your family members, If someone asks you to hold plebiscit, How will you feel?
Kashmir issue is not something that will be solved very soon..... What will Pakistan do if we hand over Kashmir to Pakistan? Will all the terrorist turn to good citizens?
These terrorist cannot lay down their arms.... They have to kill some one every day... The main aim of Pakistan is to divide India into many parts with 1000 cuts.
We will not hold plebiscit.... Kahmir is an integrated part of India.
re
Not trying to digress, but to clear some logic. Who decides it must be a national majority? You have merely shifted the point of conflit from the legality of such movement to the making of the law. In the end you have your way because of superior force. This is how the world works.
I take it that you are in support of Chinese government over Tibet. I'll quote you and those that thanked you on this one.
Not trying to digress, but to clear some logic. Who decides it must be a national majority? You have merely shifted the point of conflit from the legality of such movement to the making of the law. In the end you have your way because of superior force. This is how the world works.
Easy dude , because of one Chinese there is no need to take Indian Muslims as a bargaining chip . The talk about asking Indian Muslims by some of ours leaders to move to Pakistan is the real problem , that everyone is getting these words .
Countries cant be established on the basis of religion and almost all the deobandi ulema's rejected the partition , Muslims from the United,central and southern provinces were not ready to leave thier motherland and thats why they have opposed the partition and on that Indian Union maked it cleared that all can follow thier religions and religious law and live in harmony .
Majority of immigration was done in Punjab sector then in Bengal and to see carefully the URDU speaking Muslims aka Mujahirs makes just 7% in the present Population of Pakistan even after 60 years.
Known Unknown you are completely wrong here.
A group of people have the right to be independent.
The real question is how to define this group.
In my opinion by, ethnic, culture, area...
Of course this can be misused like anything else.
re
Exactly my point. It's always those that are more powerful that set the "definition."
