JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

shiphone

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1. C802 would be too long for centerline pylon..the span of wing and tail rudder are also problem coz they are not folding unlike the KH35.

2. one C802 might be the best choice for such light weight fighter, or the combat radius would be quite compromised ...such unsymmetry would not be a big problem coz we have seen such payload on Super Etendard during the 1982's war. the nowadays Flight Control Sys could handle it.

 
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Defcon 1

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1. C802 would be too long for centerline pylon..the span of wing and tail rudder are also problem coz they are not folding unlike the KH35.

2. one C802 might be the best choice for such light weight fighter, or the combat radius would be quite compromised ...such unsymmetry would not be a big problem coz we have seen such payload on Super Etendard during the 1982's war. the nowadays Flight Control Sys could handle it.

Jf17s FCS is still analog, meaning it does little more than translating pilot's commands to commands given to control surfaces. Since it lacks the capability to collect data from sensors around the aircraft, I doubt it will be effective in dealing with asymmetrical weight. One can't comment on Etenard though.

I believe that carrying C802 on a side pylon does not make the aircraft unstable yet. Thats how we have the pic of it flying anyways, however, lacking a digital FBW, the aircraft's maneuvering capability will be compromised in this configuration.
 
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shiphone

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Longitudinal control system : 4 channel redundancy, digital full authority FBW+ 2 channel analog back-up fly-by-wire flight control system...

lateral control system: 2 channel Mechanical flight control+ 2 Channel limited authority digital control augmentation system...

it's a hybrid Flight Control Sys...I thought we said it many times...
------------------------

decades ago,the 3rd Gen(or 4th Gen--your standard) fighter began their legend with control augmentation system tech--the predecessor of FBW tech
 
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Defcon 1

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Longitudinal control system : 4 chanel redundancy, digital full authority FBW+ 2 chanel analog back-up fly-by-wire flight control system...

lateral control system: 2 chanel Mechanical flight control+ 2 Chanel limited authority digital control augmentation system...

it's a hybrid Flight Control Sys...
------------------------

decades ago,the 3rd Gen(or 4th Gen--your standard) fighter began their legend with control augmentation system tech--the predecessor of FBW tech
Source? I read in a reputed source (though old) that JF17 uses triple channel FBW. No FBW in yaw axis?
 

shiphone

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FC-1 /JF17 project Deputy Chief Designer and Head of Flight Control Sys team

too many sources indeed...here's a report about FC-1 /JF17 project Deputy Chief Designer and Head of Flight Control Sys team--杨朝旭

这就要求在飞机研制中必须强调低成本,在技术上给飞控专业带来新的挑战:研制全权限电传、机械及有限权限控制增稳混合的飞控系统。
to lower the cost ,such hybrid Flight Control Sys was a compromise....

---------------------
2006 ,Airshow China...the Project Chief Designer YangWei's interview...such hybird FCS was realized on the PT04 ...PT01 and 03 made the maiden flight with different FCS(old)

枭龙04架飞机的飞行控制系统设计在国内首次采用了数字式电传和机械混合系统综合设计,这不仅使飞机具有良好的飞行品质和多种自动驾驶模态,而且实现了低成本。
 
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shiphone

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Aviation CN news...

9月24日,中航工业成飞一举完成了"æž­é¾™"é£žæœºä¸å¯¹ç§°æž„型科目的最后一项试飞,标志着历时两个月的科研试飞取得了圆满的结果。
不对称构型科目,就是测试"æž­é¾™"é£žæœºæœºç¿¼ä¸¤ä¾§ä¸åŒçš„挂重效果。两个月来,成飞先后完成了"大过载"ã€"跨声速"ã€"最大起飞重量"ç­‰å‡ åä¸ªé¡¹ç›®å…±23个起落的测试,为最后的交付奠定了基础。
Sep 24th, the CAC completed the last test-flight of the Xiaolong(FC-1) "asymmetric payload layout" which lasted for two months...
"asymmetric payload layout" ---different payload under the both wings... in the past two months, CAC finished 23 sorties to test this asymmetric layout under the "High G","transonic speed" and "Max Take-off weight" circumstances....
----------------------
this test was done on the PAF's J/F17 ,No.10-115 jet (SP7) transfered back to Chengdu...

No.10-115 jet with full payload spotted in Chengdu....copyright by 中南海保镖 of DSWC...
 

janme

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Can anyone please tell me if JF17-BK1 can fire BVR missiles??.I cant find any video on youtube.
 

shiphone

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PAF's J/F17 ,Tail Number.10-115 jet (SP7) transfered back to Chengdu as a testbed....

it was flying with two CM-400AKG Air-Surface missiles(mock-up)...

CM-400AKG
: 180-240KM range, 5.5 Mach (top speed), 5.2m long, 0.4m diameter, 900Kg weight.




--------------------------
Background News:

to carry this Heavy Weapon. in 2012, the extra strength and load test was done on the FC-1 PT06 ...
the modified wing was tested under the 100%, 150% 200% load Conditions...the result was satisfying and achieved the PAF's requests...



news links:
"æž­é¾™"06架机进行标定试验 全面验证强度受载 - 新华军事 - 新华网

8月8日,中航工业成飞枭龙06架飞机开始了全面的标定试验,其目标是准确地测试出飞机在空中实际的受载情况。此次试验将全面验证"æž­é¾™"é£žæœºå„部位的强度受载情况,为下一步该机的设计优化和完善提供翔实可靠的数据。(徐博 张小洪 摄影报道)
枭龙机翼完成静力试验 200%载荷下结构仍然完好_新闻_腾讯网

5月18日,"æž­é¾™"é£žæœº03架左机翼在中航工业成飞技术中心试验室顺利完成200%载荷工况的静力试验,这标志着改进后的飞机机翼强度达到了客户的使用要求。
试验结果表明,在给定的载荷状态下,机翼结构未发生破坏,与设计理论相符。此次试验为该型机机翼结构的进一步改进提供了翔实可靠的数据。
为保证试验的顺利进行,成飞技术中心试验室按照设计和试验要求进行了细致充分的准备工作,并在试验正式开始前,做了多次40%载荷的预试。
此次试验共进行了100%、150%、200%三种载荷的加载。
试验期间,中航工业副总工程师杨伟亲临现场并坐镇指挥,巴基斯坦方面的专家、中航工业相关部门以及相关成员单位现场参与了整个试验。
 
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Neo

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After modiefying the wing in PT06 the Jf-17's weaponload is increased from 3800kg to 5000kg in block 2.
 

ladder

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Increased fuel capacity with improved version of RD-93.
The new engine is 98kn.
Better engine can only improve SFC ( Is it improved in the new engine?) I know the Russian banner in some expo claimed 98KN, I am not talking about that.

Fuel capacity (internal) physically increased or not?
 

Neo

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Better engine can only improve SFC ( Is it improved in the new engine?) I know the Russian banner in some expo claimed 98KN, I am not talking about that.

Fuel capacity (internal) physically increased or not?
Yes, the capacity is increased. Waiting for the official stats to be published so I can provide it with link.

Maybe @shiphone has some chinese link regarding internal fuel capacity.
 
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shiphone

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4500Kg weaponload capability for the FC-1/JF17 Block2 with the modified wing might be more correct, which was released in the TV interview with the Deputy Chief Designer of FC-1 Project in Feb of this year...



BTW , a little correction to Post 1670 , the load tests of modified wing were done on the Left wing of PT03
the extra strength and load test of the whole plane was done on the PT06...

-------------------------
the internal fuel capability remains 2.3 tons...and engine remains the same RD93 ,
For any enhanced RD93 varient, 9 tons thrust might be more realistic (similar to the improvement of RD33 to RD33MK)
 
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Neo

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@shiphone, I was informed that the new wing adds 1400kg to weaponload which was 3639kg in block 1.
It also features dualreck launcher which will be introduced in block 3.
 
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SajeevJino

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.

Is Nigeria Interested in JF 17

[tweet]529966578746810368[/tweet]

@shiphone
 
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shiphone

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for our Pakistan friends, J/F17 is the second-line , Multi-role fighter and important indigenization effort. and they would market it in islamic countries mainly...

for China ,FC-1 is the Low cost, Multi-role Export fighter project . CATIC-China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporation is marketing it to our traditional customers of 3rd world countries in Africa, South Asia. ...etc... FC-1 would be the Successor of former J7A/M/PG export fighter projects...the J7 MG production line was officially closed in 2013.

we thought current J7 seiral export fighter user country would be the most possiable potential customer...

the following is just the customer list of latest J7MG varient...there are more AFs using the old varients like J7A,J7B, J7M including Iran, North Korean, Egypt, Albania...etc...



-----------------------------
the exportation road of J/F17 (FC-1) won't be easy , coz the target customers are normally short of funds and sensitive to the price. this is another reason why J/F17 (FC-1 ) choose the mature tech in design to lower the costs...

another hope for FC-1 earlier trading/Export would be : as a "Military Aid" fighter like the USA F-5 fighter in history... but it's not something certain so far...
 

leopard

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(IDEAS) in Karachi on November 29, 2014. 50 Pakistan-made aircrafts have been inducted into the PAF.
50 Pakistan-assembled JF-17 fighter jets inducted into PAF: PAC chief – The Express Tribune
KARACHI: The head of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) said on Tuesday that 50 home-assembled multi-role JF-17 Thunder fight jets have been introduced into its airforce.

Air Marshal Javed Ahmed, chief of the state-owned Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), said the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had already received 50 of the home-made aircraft and that the supply of the second block is expected to start this month. The JF-17 was first introduced to the PAF in 2007.

"The five aircraft of the next block would be inducted (into PAF) this year," Air Marshal Javed Ahmed, told AFP on the sidelines of International Defence Exhibition And Seminars (Ideas) 2014 in Karachi.

Pakistan has been manufacturing the JF-17 aircraft since 2009 with the help of the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation of China (CACC). In addition to block one, block two is now in production which has advanced avionics and mid-air refueling capabilities.

"JF-17 is a modern aircraft, it fulfills all the needs of PAF, it is affordable, the cockpit is very user friendly, all beyond visual range attack capabilities as well as stand of deliveries are available at this aircraft," Ahmed said.

The PAF intends to induct at least 200 JF-17s into its fleet to replace the ageing F-7s and Dassault Mirage-III. The PAF also has explored the possibility of acquiring the J-10s and last month enquired about the new range of stealth aircraft, J-31, that China unveiled during an airshow in Zhuhai.

The ordnance factories have recently been making attempts to develop arms to meet domestic needs, as well as seeking to tap into the export market.

"A lot of international customers from developing countries have shown interest in the aircraft and we are in active negotiations with many countries," the PAC chief said.
 
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