J20 Stealth Fighter

Kunal Biswas

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The image above, captured in March of 2010, depicts an F-117A mockup. Normally, a mockup of the F-117A wouldn't be a very big deal, but this one is in the middle of Luoyang, China. First spotted by the intrepid members of the China Defense Forum, the mockup appears to be partially completed, apparently missing the forward fuselage. This could however simply be an abberation in the image given that the color applied to the mockup does not appear to stand out against the pavement a great deal. It is a full-scale mockup, with the wingspan matching the "real" F-117A at roughly 43 feet.

Why is there an F-117A mockup sitting inside of Luoyang? There could be a completely benign purpose, such as use in some sort of media. However, Luoyang is home to the Luoyang Electro-Optical Technology Development Center, who is responsible for developing the current air-to-air missiles fielded by the Chinese military. A facility such as this would certainly be able to make use of an accurate model of a VLO aircraft for missile seeker evaluation, particularly in the case of seekers for active radar homing weapons like the current PL-12. In such a case replicating an F-117A would be far less complex than accurately replicating a non-faceted VLO shape like the B-2A.

http://geimint.blogspot.com/2010/10/image-of-week-luoyang-nighthawk.html
 

Kunal Biswas

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No wonder the USAF then bombed the Chinese embassy then. :eek:
 
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badguy2000

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Again, Read post number:

#99

#97

#93

If you want me to admire CCP and its autocratic rule over Chinese people, then surely I will not, Further, I will not even consider your opinion against Democracy!! What do you call people under dictatorships and forced labor? Free men and women??.....not according to me!
well,keep your dream of a democracy crusaders
 

badguy2000

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http://www.zhgpl.com/doc/1015/7/9/2...=4&kindid=16&docid=101579247&mdate=0124123438

而新世纪周刊采访的一名中国空军飞行员称,"发动机肯定是自己搞的,没有人会卖这样的发动机技术给我们。"æ®ä»–介绍,歼-20的研发速度比预想的快,(歼-10)从立项到首飞花了12年,歼-20到现在只有数年时间,"大家都很拼命,搞设计的都是熬更守夜地干。"

In one intervew, one PLAAF pilot said:" of course the engine was developed by us ourselves,because nobody is ready to sell so advanced engine tech to us!".

According to him, J20 was developed faster than expected. "it once took 12 years to finish J10's maiden flight since the project of J10 started,but it took only several years to finish J20's maiden flight!" "We all worked tooth and nail ......all engineers worked hard all day and all night...."

  对于歼-20的技术指标问题,胡思远分析称,性能可能会差一点,但绝对是质的飞跃,比如说发动机。"在最重要的隐形技术上,美国F-22的隐形技术如果是10分的话,歼-20打个八九分应该没问题。还有一个就是造价的问题。F-22一架在2亿美元左右,歼-20比它便宜一多半,但性能还基本属于一个档次。"
As for the performance of J20. Prof. Hu Siyuan said that it will still be a tech heap although it might be a bit less advanced (than USA),such as engines.
"Fox example ,if the stealth of F22 can be ranked "10", then J20 can be ranked '8' or '9' at least."
"the cost also should be noted. one F22 costs about 200M USD .J20 costs only less than the half of F22's,although their performance are in the same league ."
the above is China's semi-offical refute to the accusation that J20 is a "copy" or "steal"
 
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Parthy

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China's new stealth fighter may use US technology

Chinese officials recently unveiled a new, high-tech stealth fighter that could pose a significant threat to American air superiority and some of its technology, it turns out, may well have come from the US itself.

Balkan military officials and other experts have told The Associated Press that in all probability the Chinese gleaned some of their technological know-how from an American F-117 Nighthawk that was shot down over Serbia in 1999.

Nighthawks were the world's first stealth fighters, planes that were very hard for radar to detect. But on March 27, 1999, during NATO's aerial bombing of Serbia in the Kosovo war, a Serbian anti-aircraft missile shot one of the Nighthawks down. The pilot ejected and was rescued.

It was the first time one of the much-touted "invisible" fighters had ever been hit. The Pentagon believed a combination of clever tactics and sheer luck had allowed a Soviet-built SA-3 missile to bring down the jet.

The wreckage was strewn over a wide area of flat farmlands, and civilians collected the parts some the size of small cars as souvenirs.

"At the time, our intelligence reports told of Chinese agents crisscrossing the region where the F-117 disintegrated, buying up parts of the plane from local farmers," says Adm. Davor Domazet-Loso, Croatia's military chief of staff during the Kosovo war.

"We believe the Chinese used those materials to gain an insight into secret stealth technologies ... and to reverse-engineer them," Domazet-Loso said in a telephone interview.


http://www.brahmand.com/news/Chinas-new-stealth-fighter-may-use-US-technology/6133/1/14.html
 

neo29

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J-20?s technology might have come from Downed American F-117

Chinese officials recently unveiled a new, high-tech stealth fighter that could pose a significant threat to American air superiority and some of its technology, it turns out, may well have come from the U.S. itself.Balkan military officials and other experts have told The Associated Press that in all probability the Chinese gleaned some of their technological know-how from an American F-117 Nighthawk that was shot down over Serbia in 1999.

Nighthawks were the world's first stealth fighters, planes that were very hard for radar to detect. But on March 27, 1999, during NATO's aerial bombing of Serbia in the Kosovo war, a Serbian anti-aircraft missile shot one of the Nighthawks down. The pilot ejected and was rescued.

It was the first time one of the much-touted "invisible" fighters had ever been hit. The Pentagon believed a combination of clever tactics and sheer luck had allowed a Soviet-built SA-3 missile to bring down the jet.

The wreckage was strewn over a wide area of flat farmlands, and civilians collected the parts — some the size of small cars — as souvenirs.

"At the time, our intelligence reports told of Chinese agents crisscrossing the region where the F-117 disintegrated, buying up parts of the plane from local farmers," says Adm. Davor Domazet-Loso, Croatia's military chief of staff during the Kosovo war.

"We believe the Chinese used those materials to gain an insight into secret stealth technologies "¦ and to reverse-engineer them," Domazet-Loso said in a telephone interview.

A senior Serbian military official confirmed that pieces of the wreckage were removed by souvenir collectors, and that some ended up "in the hands of foreign military attaches."

In Washington, an Air Force official said the service was unaware of any connection between the downed F-117 plane and development of Chinese stealth technology for the J-20. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the subject involves classified information.

Efforts to get comment from China's defense ministry were unsuccessful.

China's multi-role stealth fighter — known as the Chengdu J-20 — made its inaugural flight Jan. 11, revealing dramatic progress in the country's efforts to develop cutting-edge military technologies.

Although the twin-engine J-20 is at least eight or nine years from entering air force inventory, it could become a rival to America's top-of-the-line F-22 Raptor, the successor to the Nighthawk and the only stealth fighter currently in service.

China rolled out the J-20 just days before a visit to Beijing by U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, leading some analysts to speculate that the timing was intended to demonstrate the growing might of China's armed forces.

Despite Chinese President Hu Jintao's high-profile visit to the United States this week, many in Washington see China as an economic threat to the U.S. and worry as well about Beijing's military might.

Parts of the downed F-117 wreckage — such as the left wing with US Air Force insignia, the cockpit canopy, ejection seat, pilot's helmet and radio — are exhibited at Belgrade's aviation museum.

"I don't know what happened to the rest of the plane," said Zoran Milicevic, deputy director of the museum. "A lot of delegations visited us in the past, including the Chinese, Russians and Americans "¦ but no one showed any interest in taking any part of the jet."

Zoran Kusovac, a Rome-based military consultant, said the regime of former Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic routinely shared captured Western equipment with its Chinese and Russian allies.

"The destroyed F-117 topped that wish-list for both the Russians and Chinese," Kusovac said.

Russia's Sukhoi T-50 prototype stealth fighter made its maiden flight last year and is due to enter service in about four years. It is likely that the Russians also gleaned knowledge of stealth technology from the downed Nighthawk.

The F-117, developed in great secrecy in the 1970s, began service in 1983.

While not completely invisible to radar, its shape and radar-absorbent coating made detection extremely difficult. The radar cross-section was further reduced because the wings' leading and trailing edges were composed of nonmetallic honeycomb structures that do not reflect radar rays.

Kusovac said insight into this critical technology, and particularly the plane's secret radiation-absorbent exterior coating, would have significantly enhanced China's stealth know-how.

Alexander Huang of Taipei's Tamkang University said the J-20 represented a major step forward for China. He described Domazet-Loso's claim as "a logical assessment."

"There is no other stronger source for the origin of the J-20"²s stealthy technology," said Huang, an expert on China's air force. "The argument the Croatian chief-of-staff makes is legitimate and cannot be ruled out."

The Chinese are well-known perpetrators of industrial espionage in Western Europe and the United States, where the administration has also been increasingly aggressive in prosecuting cases of Chinese espionage.

Western diplomats have said China maintained an intelligence post in its Belgrade embassy during the Kosovo war. The building was mistakenly struck by U.S. bombers that May, killing three people inside.

"What that means is that the Serbs and Chinese would have been sharing their intelligence," said Alexander Neill, head of the Asia security program at the Royal United Services Institute, a defense think tank in London. "It's very likely that they shared the technology they recovered from the F-117, and it's very plausible that elements of the F-117 got to China."

http://idrw.org/?p=2463
 

AK471993

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Well stories won't matter in the end,it's the performance.A glimpse from a far distance showing almost similar RAM coating let's one believe for a second that all the links of the chain are there.But one should also think that why would Chinese rely so much on a 30 year old nighthawk technology,which was a failure in the end.
Its a big news now..

http://www.sify.com/news/china-used...ealth-jet-news-international-lbynkgefegj.html

I see NOTHING in common in the designs of J-20 and F117..media gone nuts or what?
 

chex3009

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Well stories won't matter in the end,it's the performance.A glimpse from a far distance showing almost similar RAM coating let's one believe for a second that all the links of the chain are there.But one should also think that why would Chinese rely so much on a 30 year old nighthawk technology,which was a failure in the end.
Wow, thats news, F117 a "failure" branded by a Pakistani. Tell this to the USAF Fan and you would be blasted.
 

Kunal Biswas

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I see NOTHING in common in the designs of J-20 and F117..media gone nuts or what?
Its nothing to do with the 70-80s tech deign, But the material used in airframe, also not to mention abt anti-radar coating material..
 

badguy2000

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Its nothing to do with the 70-80s tech deign, But the material used in airframe, also not to mention abt anti-radar coating material..
many other resources also suggested that China might get F117's wreckages.but it is doubtful that the wreckages could provide key tech of stealth to Chinese .
 

black eagle

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isn't it the F-35 cockpit?? m confused by the mongoloids around...

 
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vikramrana_1812

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J-20 makes pentagon to panic

Author: shan | Posted at: 3:38 PM | Filed Under: china, chinese airforce, fifth generation aircraft

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China has launched a test flight of its pioneering J 20 stealth fighter plane, reports said. The J 20 is reportedly equipped with radar detection escape functionality. The new development of J 20 by China comes in line of a latest anti ship missile.
In wake of the development of J 20 by China, experts believe that the U.S. is underestimating the rate at which China is developing and advancing its defense technologies. On the contrary, Jack Dorsett, the U.S. Navy intelligence chief, believes that the development of J 20 by China is not a surprise.
Some defense analysts believe that the U.S. is overestimating the defense capabilities of China.
"There does tend to be some tendency to take a Chinese asset – whether it is a particular type of missile or boat or radar or whatever – and ascribe to the Chinese the same capability that we would have if we had the same item," says Dr. Kenneth Lieberthal. Dr. Kenneth Lieberthal is director at the John L. Thornton China Center, Brookings Institution in Washington.
The development of J 20 by China has sent alarm to those responsible for the defense of the U.S. Military experts in the U.S. endorse the fact that with the development of J 20, China has increased its precision and accuracy in targeting a moving object.
In addition to the J 20, another worry for the U.S. is the fact that China has grown its expertise in cyber warfare and this is considered to be most alarming for the U.S. by defense analysts.

Some notable features of J-20 as put down by many analysts:

1. Access to off-board space, ground, and air-based sensors, particularly a capable AEW/AWACS system with a well-trained crew and robust data links.

2. Effective sensor fusion to allow the pilot to make use of all this information, as well as information from on-board sensors.

3. An integrated EW system.

4. An AESA radar with a high level of reliability.

5. Training and doctrine necessary to make effective use of all this data and equipment. Plenty of flight hours for pilot flight training, too.

6. Powerful engines (ideally capable of supercruise), with a high mean time between overhaul and failures.

7. An airframe with low-observable characteristics.

8. A robust air-to-air refueling capability (equipment, readiness, training).

9. Sophisticated and reliable precision guided weaponry.

10. A robust software and hardware upgrade road-map, to keep this plane effective in five, 10 and 30 years.

11. Maintenance procedures in place to keep the plane operating with a high mission-capable rate. And of course equipment that has been designed with easy access for maintenance and easy access for electronic diagnostic tools, and ideally a sophisticated health-usage monitoring system (HUMS).

http://www.subcontinentaldef.net/2011/01/j-20-makes-pentagon-to-panic.html
 

badguy2000

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well, I just feel that "stealth fighter" now becomes the Dreadnought of 21th century.

We all know how the Dreadnought-building race between British and Germany caused WW I.
 
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Minghegy

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J-20 makes pentagon to panic
10. A robust software and hardware upgrade road-map, to keep this plane effective in five, 10 and 30 years.
I like this point, they can simply update the fly-by-wire software to improve the aerodynamic performance.

In fact 30 years is underestimated, look back the history the first generation fighter was eliminated in several years, the second generation was eliminated in a dozen years, the third generation almost serviced 30-40 years, if this is a trend then a 5th-G fighter services 50 years or more is possible.
 
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badguy2000

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www.china.com
黃仁偉:中國軍事現代化是不可避免的過程。很長時間來,中國軍隊是用一種忍耐的方式在發展。鄧小平過去講,在經濟沒有發展起來之前,我們的軍隊不能太多,現代化不能搞得太快。到了上世紀90年代後期,才開始補償過去的欠賬,投入多了些,快了些。90年代後期的投入,到現在成果開始慢慢顯現。80-90年代上半段,15年時間幾乎沒有動,甚至還有下降,國防人員大量流失。90年代中期之後開始搞研究,十幾年後現在成果出來了,讓外界大吃一驚。

實際上,中國隱形飛機上使用的材料是30年之前就完成了的,是獲得過國家科技一等獎的。剛剛用到飛機上,外界就覺得不得了了。中國在科技上並不落後,放到軍事用途上,有時是時機不到,或者是其他配套沒趕上。所以,我們軍事現代化過程很漫長,最近成果連續出現,讓人很吃驚
semi-official interview:

what J20 uses is not wave-absorbing coatings,but wave-absorbing material.

Chinese indigenious wave-absorbing coating in fact was developed successfully 30 years ago,and rewarded with Chinese "National First Prize" at that time.but the absorbing coating had to be put aside,because China had no stealth bird project at all at that time.

And now, considering that wave-absorbing material can save lots of maintaining-cost than wave-absorbing coating,Chinese engineers just skip wave-absorbing coating and use wave-absorbing material on J20.
 
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youngindian

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Indian in US to be sentenced for selling stealth fighter technology to China

Published: Monday, Jan 24, 2011, 20:28 IST
Place: Washington, DC | Agency: PTI

Weeks after China conducted a flight test of its new J-20 stealth fighter, a US federal court was today set to sentence Indian-American Noshir Gowadia, a former engineer of B-2 stealth bomber, who has been convicted of selling military secrets to Beijing.

In August last year, Mumbai-born Gowadia, 66, was convicted on 14 counts on charges including conspiracy, communicating national defense, violating the arms export control act and information to aid a foreign nation.

He now faces life sentence.

Between 2003 and 2005 Gowadia made six secret trips into mainland China and exchanged numerous communications to help Chinese defense engineers design a cruise missile that is able to evade air-to-air, heat-seeking missiles, according the federal indictment against him.

According to court papers, Gowadia hid the proceeds from the transactions by directing the payments to secret Swiss bank accounts of foundations he set up in Liechtenstein, the government said in recently filed court documents.

Prosecutors alleged that Gowadia helped design an exhaust nozzle for China that gives off less heat, making it difficult for enemy infrared detectors to track the missile for which he got $110,000 over two years.

Gowadia worked for Northrup from 1968 to 1986, during which time he helped develop the B-2 bomber's unique propulsion system.

After his employment with Northrup ended, Gowadia continued his relationship with the US military as a private contractor.

However, following some angry dealings with the Air Force and the Los Alamos National Laboratory in 1993, Gowadia began to seek and solicit business internationally, the government said.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/repor...g-stealth-fighter-technology-to-china_1498688
 

SURB

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Wow, thats news, F117 a "failure" branded by a Pakistani. Tell this to the USAF Fan and you would be blasted.
Yeah Yeah ,the people that need to know already know it.Looks like now air forces around the world need to talk about the fan boy stuff before they replace a failure with a success.Better come out of these fan boy dreams and find some relief by visiting USAF museums.Or you can argue with USAF for retiring this "fan boy" dream craft so early.
 
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chex3009

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Yeah Yeah ,the people that need to know already know it.Looks like now air forces around the world need to talk about the fan boy stuff before they replace a failure with a success.Better come out these fan boy dreams and find some relief by visiting USAF museums.Or you can argue with USAF for retiring this "fan boy" dream craft so early.
This can't be termed as a "failure" in any sense:

Operational History of the F-117A:

Due to the extreme secrecy of the F-117 program, the aircraft were first based at isolated Tonopah Test Range Airport in Nevada as part of the 4450th Tactical Group. To aid in protecting the secret, official records at the time listed the 4450th as being based at Nellis Air Force Base and flying A-7 Corsair IIs. It was not until 1988 that the Air Force acknowledged the existence of the "stealth fighter" and released a fuzzy photograph of the aircraft. Two years later, in April 1990, it was publically revealed when two F-117As arrived at Nellis during daylight hours.

With the crisis in Kuwait developing that August, the F-117A, now assigned to the 37th Tactical Fighter Wing, deployed to the Middle East. Operation Desert Shield/Storm was the aircraft's first large-scale combat debut, though two had been secretly used as part of the invasion of Panama in 1989. A key component of the coalition air strategy, the F-117A flew 1,300 sorties during the Gulf War and struck 1,600 targets. The forty-two F-117As of the 37th TFW succeeded in scoring an 80% hit rate and were among the few aircraft cleared to strike targets in downtown Baghdad.

Returning from the Gulf, the F-117A fleet was shifted to Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico in 1992, and became part of the 49th Fighter Wing. In 1999, the F-117A was used in the Kosovo War as part of Operation Allied Force. During the conflict, a F-117A flown by Lieutenant Colonel Dale Zelko was downed by a specially modified SA-3 Goa surface-to-air missile. Serbian forces were able to briefly detect the aircraft by operating their radar on unusually long wavelengths. Though Zelko was rescued, the remains of the aircraft were captured and some of the technology compromised.
In the years since the September 11 attacks, the F-117A has flown combat missions in support of both Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom. In the latter case, it dropped the opening bombs of the war when F-117s struck a leadership target in the conflict's opening hours in March 2003. Though a highly successful aircraft, the F-117A's technology was becoming outmoded by 2005 and maintenance costs were rising. With the introduction of the F-22 Raptor and development of the F-35 Lightning II, Program Budget Decision 720 (issued December 28, 2005) proposed retiring the F-117A fleet by October 2008. Though the US Air Force had intended to keep the aircraft in service until 2011, it decided to begin retiring it to enable the purchase of additional F-22s.

Due to the sensitive nature of the F-117A, it was decided to retire the aircraft to its original base at Tonopah where they would be partially disassembled and placed in storage. While the first F-117As left the fleet in March 2007, the final aircraft departed active service on April 22, 2008. That same day official retirement ceremonies were held. Four F-117As remained in brief service with the 410th Flight Test Squadron at Palmdale, CA and were taken to Tonopah in August 2008.
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/militaryaircraft/p/f117.htm
 

youngindian

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Engineer jailed for selling US stealth bomber technology to China

A former B-2 stealth bomber engineer has been jailed for 32 years by a US court for selling military secrets to China.

7:00AM GMT 25 Jan 2011

Noshir Gowadia, 66, made profits of at least USD$110,000 (£68,000) by selling classified engine technology that China needed for its design of a stealth cruise missile that could evade infra-red detection, the court heard.

"He broke his oath of loyalty to this country," said Judge Susan Oki Mollway passing sentence after a hearing in Honolulu, Hawaii, "He was found guilty of marketing valuable technology to foreign countries for personal gain." Gowadia, an engineer with the Northrop Grumman Corporation between 1968-88 who worked on the B-2 design, made repeated trips to China between 2003 and 2005 providing "defence services" to China's cruise missile programme as a freelance consultant.

The prosecution had called on the judge to impose a life sentence on Gowadia who used the proceeds of the sales to fund a luxury lifestyle on Hawaii where he lived in a multi-million dollar home overlooking the ocean on Maui.

Defence lawyers for Gowadia, an Indian-born engineer who worked on the engine design for the B-2 bomber, had argued that he had sold only unclassified technology.

However after a 40-day trial, he was convicted on 14 charges including communicating national defence information to aid a foreign nation, violating the arms export control act and several counts of money-laundering and tax fraud."He provided some of our country's most sensitive weapons-related designs to the Chinese government for money," Assistant Attorney General for National Security David Kris said in a statement after the trial.

Earlier this month China unveiled its first ever stealth fighter, the Chengdu J20, which is said to have been based on technology gleaned partly from parts of a US F-117 stealth fighter shot down over Serbia in 1999 during the Kosovo conflict.

China, who has promised a "peaceful rise", is currently investing heavily in upgrading its armed forces, including stealth technology, aircraft carriers and long-range missiles, raising concerns in Washington and the Asia-Pacific region.

"We're a little disappointed (the judge) didn't give him a life sentence, that's the sentence that would've sent the best message," said assistant US attorney Ken Sorenson said after the hearing, "But 32 years is stiff and in many ways an appropriate sentence for him." His son, Ashton Gowadia said after the sentence that his father intended to appeal against the verdict.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ng-US-stealth-bomber-technology-to-China.html
 

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