J20 Stealth Fighter

[SpArK]

J-20 vs. F-35, One Analyst's Perspective

​

With all the hoopla about China's new fifth-gen fighter this week, we asked Teal Group aviation analyst Richard Aboulafia for his take on how serious a threat the J-20/J-XX is to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in air-to-air combat and as a competitor on the global fast jet market.

Rumor has it the J-20 is designed to take on the air superiority-focused F-22 Raptor. But remember, now that the F-22 is ending production and is banned for export sales, the F-35 will be the fifth-gen mainstay of the United States and numerous allies.

Here's what Richard has to say on the matter:

I would gauge a modern combat aircraft's capabilities by looking at the following features:

1. Access to offboard space, ground, and air-based sensors, particularly a capable AEW/AWACS system with a well-trained crew and robust data links.

2. Effective sensor fusion to allow the pilot to make use of all this information, as well as information from onboard sensors.

3. An integrated EW system.

4. An AESA radar with a high level of reliability.

5. Training and doctrine necessary to make effective use of all this data and equipment. Plenty of flight hours for pilot flight training, too.

6. Powerful engines (ideally capable of supercruise), with a high mean time between overhaul and failures.

7. An airframe with low-observable characteristics.

8. A robust air-to-air refueling capability (equipment, readiness, training).

9. Sophisticated and reliable precision guided weaponry.

10. A robust software and hardware upgrade roadmap, to keep this plane effective in 5, 10, and 30 years.

11. Maintenance procedures in place to keep the plane operating with a high mission-capable rate. And of course equipment that has been designed with easy access for maintenance and easy access for electronic diagnostic tools, and ideally a sophisticated health-usage monitoring system (HUMS).

This list is not in any particular order of magnitude. And I'm sure I've missed quite a few other key items.

The J-20 offers one item from this list (#7). I'm not convinced that the PLAAF has any other items from this list, although China seems to be making some progress with #9.

It's kind of fun to watch the world fixate on this one item (#7). Then again, I still enjoy air shows, too. Pugachev's Cobra maneuver, for example. Drives the crowd wild. Relevance to modern combat? Zero.

As for the F-35, it certainly has its problems, especially regarding the price tag. But most, if not all, of the customers and partners are sophisticated enough to have a list that's a lot more comprehensive than the one above. And I'm sure the appearance of item #7 as a prototype in PLAAF markings affects exactly none of their thinking.



Read more: http://defensetech.org/2010/12/31/j-20-vs-f-35-one-analysts-perspective/#ixzz19ipyBrDj
Defense.org

 

[Bluewolf]

no yo what is so special in that news from your big brother America. They didn't say anything about plane being state of the art or has potential to be a world beater . Read carefully before jumping with joy.

Yo! I was talking about the big brother of India..I ain't give sh*t about the chinese crap but i just wanted to let you know you guys were little behind the news~ The Chinese were making fake stuff and news, don't buy it!

 

[forth]

lol...in his list, only item 7 was undeniable from the pictures, and then he refused to believe in all the rest.

Btw, happy new year to everyone

J-20 vs. F-35, One Analyst's Perspective

​

With all the hoopla about China's new fifth-gen fighter this week, we asked Teal Group aviation analyst Richard Aboulafia for his take on how serious a threat the J-20/J-XX is to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in air-to-air combat and as a competitor on the global fast jet market.

Rumor has it the J-20 is designed to take on the air superiority-focused F-22 Raptor. But remember, now that the F-22 is ending production and is banned for export sales, the F-35 will be the fifth-gen mainstay of the United States and numerous allies.

Here's what Richard has to say on the matter:

I would gauge a modern combat aircraft's capabilities by looking at the following features:

1. Access to offboard space, ground, and air-based sensors, particularly a capable AEW/AWACS system with a well-trained crew and robust data links.

2. Effective sensor fusion to allow the pilot to make use of all this information, as well as information from onboard sensors.

3. An integrated EW system.

4. An AESA radar with a high level of reliability.

5. Training and doctrine necessary to make effective use of all this data and equipment. Plenty of flight hours for pilot flight training, too.

6. Powerful engines (ideally capable of supercruise), with a high mean time between overhaul and failures.

7. An airframe with low-observable characteristics.

8. A robust air-to-air refueling capability (equipment, readiness, training).

9. Sophisticated and reliable precision guided weaponry.

10. A robust software and hardware upgrade roadmap, to keep this plane effective in 5, 10, and 30 years.

11. Maintenance procedures in place to keep the plane operating with a high mission-capable rate. And of course equipment that has been designed with easy access for maintenance and easy access for electronic diagnostic tools, and ideally a sophisticated health-usage monitoring system (HUMS).

This list is not in any particular order of magnitude. And I'm sure I've missed quite a few other key items.

The J-20 offers one item from this list (#7). I'm not convinced that the PLAAF has any other items from this list, although China seems to be making some progress with #9.

It's kind of fun to watch the world fixate on this one item (#7). Then again, I still enjoy air shows, too. Pugachev's Cobra maneuver, for example. Drives the crowd wild. Relevance to modern combat? Zero.

As for the F-35, it certainly has its problems, especially regarding the price tag. But most, if not all, of the customers and partners are sophisticated enough to have a list that's a lot more comprehensive than the one above. And I'm sure the appearance of item #7 as a prototype in PLAAF markings affects exactly none of their thinking.



Read more: http://defensetech.org/2010/12/31/j-20-vs-f-35-one-analysts-perspective/#ixzz19ipyBrDj
Defense.org

 

[cir]

only #7?

The guy would selll his mother for the rest, but I aren't telling him anything, not even for his mother, his wife(if he has one) and his daugher(s)(if he has any). lol!

On second thought, I can make this clear: J-20 is just the tip of an iceberg. A lot of "fancy" stuff in the category of "C-17", "B-2", "X-37B", SLV/CAV etc...are in various stages of development and prototype buidling. They will make shows in ....you will not be given the pleasure of knowing

It is just so easy to be sour grapes.! lol!

 

[badguy2000]

This is not the Russian government helping China.

They are the thousands of Russian Scientists and engineers without a job since the fall of the Soviet union.
China recruited them all in huge numbers and put them to work. Today , some go back to Russia. But most still work with their new jobs in places like china , Israeli companies and else ware.
Heck even Australia companies hired some of these guys.

it was a talent imput to China in 1990s that China hired lots of Soivet engineers who were laid off due to the collapse of SOviet in 1990s.

Those Russian engineers indeed helped a lot, but such help is more related to the education and training of Chinese talent, instead of direct involvement of a certain project ,let alone top secret project such as J20.

I doubt that any Russian engineer is invoved in the top project such as J20 .

 

[thecoolone]

I don't think its believable that the internet forums launch the first pics of 5G chinese fighter jet before the Chinese gov. announces. Developing and testing 5G jet is a matter of pride and confidence and hence China should make official announcements, if so. Look at US, Russia, India that are developing/or developed 5G aircraft, their program and testing has always been transparent and with regular press updates. There have been no official/reliable updates given by chinese gov. and known the history of China is copying (stealing/hacking from NASA and russian air force) and reverse engineering all this looks hardly real (but handy work of chinese forums doing photoshopping to create some sensation around). If you are not pleased by my comments, so be it, its my opinion but if you want to prove me wrong then go ahead and give me some reliable news.

 

[badguy2000]

I think that's rather imperialist view based on the security council that won't hold up against today's realities.
Given sufficient resources , infrastructure and expertise its now out of anyone's grasp.
Korea , Japan and perhaps Sweden are already mulling their own projects.

We all know the Russian bird has a Indian stake in it , and the Russians need India for financial reasons to complete their work.
India has its own project apart from that.
Who knows even Brazil may join the fray.

5th gen is not the cutting edge anymore , The Americans have moved on and we are all playing catch 20 years later.

Which ever way you play it.
The F-35 is going to flood air fleets all round the globe. Almost every NATO member or ally is going to get one.
Those who don't will have to to get the PAK-FA/FGFA may be even the J-20.

There is a pressing need for 5th gen aircraft , don't think the current club of US , Russia and China is going to stay static.
India's up next , followed closely by the Japanese.

By the way the Jap's have all the reason in the world to get their ATD-X in the air now. Heck odds are now they will do it faster than India.

F-35 , Pak-Fa/FGFA , J-20 , AMCA , ATD-X
All those countries who have to to either buy it or build it , who gets what and who builds what
the next 10 years will be very interesting for military aviation.

the so called AMCA,ATD-X are all drawing-board project.

Even Japan has not full industry-chains to support one complete development of one 5G bird ,let alone S.Korea,Brazil and India.

guy, it is not occasion that USA, Russia ,China, France and Uk are P5.....full Industry-chains is the base of their vetos.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Badguy are chinese taking the necessary precautions from Russians reverse engineering this plane or stealing Chinese technology???

 

[badguy2000]

Badguy are chinese taking the necessary precautions from Russians reverse engineering this plane or stealing Chinese technology???

guy,why was Li Wenhe accused of the theft of W88 nuke warhead by FBI?

 

[Minghegy]

J20 is more like J9 than Mig1.44

J9 was a paper design researched from 1964 to 1980 which replaced by J8

Mig 1.44

J20

 

[Minghegy]

J20's fight control software should be very complex.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

I have a sneaking feeling that Russians sold the tech for J-20 to China through Mig and taking India for a ride through PAKFA. I just wished that we were more committed to LCA & AMCA.

J-20 been revealed as soon as we signed the formal deal with Russians for PAKFA=T-50.

Chinese have been intelligent just to buy the technology while making their own product but we have mortgaged our defence R&D + production for next 30 years to the Russians

 

[anoop_mig25]

I have a sneaking feeling that Russians sold the tech for J-20 to China through Mig and taking India for a ride through PAKFA. I just wished that we were more committed to LCA & AMCA.

J-20 been revealed as soon as we signed the formal deal with Russians for PAKFA=T-50.

Chinese have been intelligent just to buy the technology while making their own product but we have mortgaged our defence R&D + production for next 30 years to the Russians

do u think russian would allow one of its neighbour to get bigger stronger then him in future. no way forget it china did best hired jobless russian. indian must to do that atleast in aviation

 

[neo29]

The fighter looks more like a mixture of F-35 and PaK Fa. It is sure that China got the technology thanks to Russian brains. But interesting thing is that the pictures are released but no mention of tests and its results anywhere.

 

[nimo_cn]

The fighter looks more like a mixture of F-35 and PaK Fa. It is sure that China got the technology thanks to Russian brains. But interesting thing is that the pictures are released but no mention of tests and its results anywhere.

why are yo so sure about this? Any evidence that shows the direct involvement of russians in the project?

 

[venkat]

AV you are right!!! In the late 1990s MIG was literally broke and it was making desperate attempts to survive. Chinese encashed the situation and might have bought the Project 1.44 from MIG ,which was under development by USSR to counter F-22. Like J-10 which had its roots in the Israeli LAVI and later modified to meet new requirements like canards,DSI ,etc.. Project1.44 original blue print must also have undergone changes to incorporate stealth features,framelss canopy, internal weapons bay,AESA...etc...I think chinese have made the most of the situation prevailing post divided USSR for their own good!!!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

J20 is more like J9 than Mig1.44

J9 was a paper design researched from 1964 to 1980 which replaced by J8
[
J20

J9

viggen

J9 was a attempt to copy SAAB Viggen, Failed due to improper aerodynamic coz it was based on MIG-21 basic deign..

J-10 is a pure Israeli-LAVI copy ( Aerodynamically )

J-20 is a stealth deign of MIG-1.44..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

J-20

[/IMG]

F-35

 

[black eagle]

Love the cockpit.. i think i can operate it as well, especially with the mouse...

 

[Minghegy]

China has to build an UFO to get off the charges of copy and steal.