J20 Stealth Fighter

MiG-29SMT

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it's engine exhaust is not serrated ...........
J-20 is an aircraft rushed into production, the engines are not ready, the DSI intake has an optimized pressure recovery that is good up to Mach 2, with engines like WS-10 or Al-31, it will be further limited, the Russians know that because contrary to China, Su-57 first batch is known to have weak engines too but the intake has variable geometry, meaning the speed is a bit higher and acceleration is probably better at speeds beyond 2.0 Mach even beyond Mach 1.7.


China is trying to boast but the reality J-20 has weak engines, and DSI is only optimized with maximum operating speeds of Mach 1.7 or bellow.


Basically it is a large F-35 with less optimized stealth, despite the Chinese boast in supercruise the F-22 is much better and stealth is more optimized on the F-22, the J-20 also has the need for two engines, meaning F-35 has more producibility, and contrary to the fanfare the Chinese are not operating a superduper fighter, but suffer the same troubles F-35 or Su-57 have.


The new European fighters will be much more advanced the tempest has more advanced stealth.
 
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Bhurki

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J-20 is an aircraft rushed into production, the engines are not ready, the DSI intake the pressure recovery is good up to Mach 2, with engines like WS-10 or Al-31, it will be further limited, the Russians know that because contrary to China, Su-57 first batch is known to have weak engines too but the intake has variable geometry, meaning the speed is a bit higher and acceleration is probably better at speeds beyond 2.0 Mach even beyond Mach 1.7.


China is trying to boast but the reality J-20 has weak engines, and DSI is only optimized with maximum operating speeds of Mach 1.7 or bellow.


Basically it is a large F-35 with less optimized stealth, despite the Chinese boast in supercruise the F-22 is much better and stealth is more optimized on the F-22, the J-20 also has the need for two engines, meaning F-35 has more producibility, and contrary to the fanfare the Chinese are not operating a superduper fighter, but suffer the same troubles F-35 or Su-57 have.


The new European fighters will be much more advanced the tempest has more advanced stealth.
Complete thrust envelope is required for complete FOC including strike missions.

As of now, J20 is probably limited to A2 assaults and therefore i wouldn't mind the low performing engines WS10A, since they do produce about 14t each and mtow woupdn't be over 30t owing to the limited armament payload.
Combining this with much more efficient design as compared to J11/16, J20 is still quite potent.

Right now, the aim will be to put out many low serial production units and test them rigoruously and stack on flight hours to gain operational insight.
 

Armand2REP

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As of now, J20 is probably limited to A2 assaults and therefore i wouldn't mind the low performing engines WS10A
Serial production J-20 runs on AL-31F. WS-10A suffers from unresponsive throttle performance and low durability hours. It is so unreliable they were rejected from performing the Tibetan Plateau patrol mission.
 

MiG-29SMT

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Complete thrust envelope is required for complete FOC including strike missions.

As of now, J20 is probably limited to A2 assaults and therefore i wouldn't mind the low performing engines WS10A, since they do produce about 14t each and mtow woupdn't be over 30t owing to the limited armament payload.
Combining this with much more efficient design as compared to J11/16, J20 is still quite potent.

Right now, the aim will be to put out many low serial production units and test them rigoruously and stack on flight hours to gain operational insight.
the things are more complex.


pressure recovery means the ability for an engine to use its max potential thrust, once the intake loses 8% to 15% of pressure recovery the engine loses 10-25% of its max thrust.

So at Mach 1.9 J-20 has no 14 tonnes of thrust but less 12 or 11 tonnes of thrust.

J-20 is a Mach 1.7 like JF-17 fighter.

Now see DSI intakes operate in the range of 1.6 Mach 1.8 Mach, after those speeds they lose 10% of pressure recovery or more.

If the engine is capable of 14 tonnes at max power on a bench, well on real flight conditions at mach 1.8 it will not generate 14 tonnes but something like 12.6 tonnes and this is at afterburner setting, ideally the J-20 will operate at Mach 1.4 or slightly less , to avoid afterburner, this means less thrust available.


So no J-20 can not operate as advertised in Chinese forums, that is where PAKFA Su-57 will beat most 5th generation fighters, since variable geometry caret intakes are stealthy and aerodynamically efficient, even with 117 engines Su-57 will fly higher, faster and with super cruise, with Type 30 well will be even more efficient than F-22, the intake of Su-57 is rated up to Mach 3, so Mach 1.8 supercruise is without afterburner and without loses of 10% in pressure recovery.


J-20 is like F-35 a Mach 1.6 type aircraft with low supercruise of Mach 1.2 or Mach 1.4 and potentially a top speed of Mach 2 but at afterburner

 
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MiG-29SMT

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J-20 has lower thrust to weight than a Flanker, it can't super cruise on its current engines.
yes i guess so, F-15 weights as much as an F-35 at empty weight, J-20 is around 4 tonnes more heavy than Su-27 at empty weight and same at operational take off it is around 6 to 8 tonnes heavier than Flanker.

Su-27 is around 24 tonnes operational, J-20 is around 30 tonnes operational and a max take off weight of 36-38 tonnes fully loaded

F-35 which is a light fighter is 30 tonnes fully loaded.

J-31 is worse than F-35 by making it twin engine the J-31 has not space for fuel, that second engine takes space that in F-35 is for fuel, add the old engines and the J-31 has no range and weapons capability it is very likely the J-31 is more akin to a F-117 in terms of combat capability, with slightly better agility but very reduced payload and range.

The J-20 for that reason is so big, it needs lots of fuel, further more the very long intake ducts add weight and take space, the jet for such reason is so big.

Even using new materials, that also are used on Su-35, and new manufacturing Technics, the J-20 will be at least 3 tonnes heavier than a Su-27 because Su-27 carries fuel tanks internally but J-20 has internal weapons and they also are making cross section bigger and all the mechanisms to release weapons are heavy such as missile racks.
 
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MiG-29SMT

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I have a question doesn't those canards in the front will increase its RCS..
Nothing is really stealth, stealth depends in the number of reflectors, radar position, and reflectors alignment.


in terms of stealth a no canard is more stealth. a canard aligned with the wing and vertical canted fins or fuselage sidewalls or chines is more stealth, no ventral fins is more stealth, in few words J-20 is much less optimised than Tempest of YF-23


X-36 has more optimised canards for stealth better aligned than J-20`s canards with dihedral and no ventral fins making it more stealthy, further more lacks vertical dorsal fins

the canards and ventral fins make J-20 for a more visible aircraft to radar than tempest

 
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f3243007008

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J-20 World Ranking

For the time being, put the J-20 in the second place, and the first place will be assigned to the F-22.) If you simply compare the parameters. ....

Stealth performance:
F-22> = J-20> F-35> Su-57

engine thrust:
J-20 (WS-15, 18t +)> = F-35 (F135, 18t)> = Su -57 (AL-41F3, 18t)> F-22 (F119, 15.8t)> J-20 (WS-10G, 15.8t [?])

Aircraft speed:
J-20 (Mach 2.5+)> F-22 ( Mach 2.25)> Su-57 (Mach 2)> F-35 (Mach 1.6)

Ammunition load in stealth state:
J-20 (6 + 2 [or 6 + 4, side magazines may be found with unilateral loading 2 F-22 (6 + 2)> = Su-57 (2 + 2 + 2, two missile bays in the middle and front each loaded with 2 missiles, one left and one combat bomb bay)> = F-35 ( 2 + 2, 2 ground-to-ground bombs + 2 medium-range air-to-air missiles)

Main missile range:
J-20 (PL-15, 150-200 km)> F-35 (AIM-120D, 100-120km)> = F -22 (same as F-35)> = Su-57 (R-77, <= 100km)

Fighting radius:
J-20 (2000km +, once to cover the entire territory of Japan)> Su-57 (1200-1500km)> = F-35 (1100-1200km)> F-22 (750 -850km)

radar detection range (data is not sure):
J-20 (400km)> = Su-57 (400km, doubt raised)> F-35 ( 300km +)> F-22 (250km + [?])

Avionics system
J-20 (has a powerful detection capability, as well as a large number of detection systems such as IRST, which are all different on the Internet)> F-35 (due to newer reasons, avionics is still very powerful , All aspects of ability are relatively strong)> F-22 (due to the age and restrictions of the body design, some updates will be more difficult, the detection ability is not as good as the top 2) / Su-57 (focus on anti-stealth, ranking difficult to determine Maybe you can go to the front)

Mobility:
J-20 (full-motion differential duck wing, vertical tail, ternary omnidirectional vector engine, lift coefficient 2 +)> Su-57 (full-motion vertical tail, binary vector engine But 360-degree torque output)> F-22 (upper and lower binary vector engines, lift coefficient 1.5-1.8)> F-35 (unable to compare with the previous three)

in the stealth state (comprehensive load capacity and missile performance ):
J-20 (air-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, and ground bombs can be built in)> F-22 (air-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, and ground-bombs can be built in, anti-ship missiles are unknown, but the load elasticity is weaker than the annihilation -20)> F-35 (air-to-air missiles, ground bombs can be built in, anti-ship missiles Known, but weaker than payload F-22)> Su-57 (AAM can be built, for bombs seemingly may also be embedded, anti-ship missiles is unknown. However, the performance of the built-in missile is weaker than the previous three.)


Through so many rounds of comparison, in addition to the engine life, among the known factors,

the first place: J-20
second place: F-22
third place: F-35
Four: Su-57

But through the design theory of stealth performance, the J-20 is superior to the F-22. However, there are too many factors in the actual situation. The actual holding amount of F-22 is about 170-180, and the J-20 can continue production. Sooner or later, due to the details of stealth paint and aerodynamic design, it is difficult to determine the actual RCS who is stronger. And after replacing the 4th generation machine (winning the bid), it will be found that it is an unrealistic idea to use the 3rd generation machine for the 4th generation machine, and the future economic development and military needs, so the output may be more than the so-called 500 aircraft. The fact that F-35 can be exported indicates that its most important performance is necessarily weaker than F-22. Production of the Su-57 was extremely slow, and only one crashed recently.

Weapons alone is not desirable. China, the United States, and Russia are fighting local warfare, and because of their strong logistics, they will not easily lose. For local wars or local conflicts on third-party battlefields, the combat system must also be considered.

At least, the United States and its allies together will have the world's largest air force and combat system, a large number of bomber fleets, fighter fleets, tanker fleets, transport aircraft fleets, early warning aircraft fleets, helicopter fleets ... and In other countries' own battles, naval wars must be taken into account. The US Navy is the world's first with a strong carrier fleet.

Therefore, the U.S. military is currently the world's most powerful. With the aid of the combat system, the combat effectiveness of the J-20 can only be ranked second or even third. In other answers, there are battle deductions of early warning aircraft and radar switches in various combat situations. In the case of J-20 and F-22 one-on-one heads-up, the J-20 will not be worse than the F-22. But modern warfare considers the operation of a complete system, which is a very high requirement for logistics and command. With the assistance of the Chinese and American combat systems, the F-20's chances of winning the F-22 will not be too great. However, the J-20 is a very good fighter aircraft, and even if it is first in the international arena, it is normal conclusion.


To add, the pedigree of the J-20. Many people at home and abroad like to find fathers for China's weapons and equipment.

Some people say that they are copying F-22, some people are imitating F-35, and some people are learning MiG 1.44 ...

But the world's original duck wings interact with high distances. Change, full-motion differential vertical tail + duck wing + three-way omnidirectional vector engine, DSI inlet, lift side wings.

What's more, anyone who really understands understands that the aerodynamic design is the J-20 using the J-9 (a very rigorous process, from design to test demonstration, to subsequent fine-tuning and modification, all have to do a lot of theoretical calculations and wind tunnels The design is not just copying at will.) The design of the 1970s is highly similar to the J-20, but was dismissed due to insufficient high and economic development.) Later, the J-10 also had the same as the J-9. Lots of similarities. The preliminary design of the J-20 has begun since the mid-1990s. It took years of technical reserves to build up an extremely good fighter such as the J-20!
 

fire starter

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J-20 World Ranking

For the time being, put the J-20 in the second place, and the first place will be assigned to the F-22.) If you simply compare the parameters. ....

Stealth performance:
F-22> = J-20> F-35> Su-57

engine thrust:
J-20 (WS-15, 18t +)> = F-35 (F135, 18t)> = Su -57 (AL-41F3, 18t)> F-22 (F119, 15.8t)> J-20 (WS-10G, 15.8t [?])

Aircraft speed:
J-20 (Mach 2.5+)> F-22 ( Mach 2.25)> Su-57 (Mach 2)> F-35 (Mach 1.6)

Ammunition load in stealth state:
J-20 (6 + 2 [or 6 + 4, side magazines may be found with unilateral loading 2 F-22 (6 + 2)> = Su-57 (2 + 2 + 2, two missile bays in the middle and front each loaded with 2 missiles, one left and one combat bomb bay)> = F-35 ( 2 + 2, 2 ground-to-ground bombs + 2 medium-range air-to-air missiles)

Main missile range:
J-20 (PL-15, 150-200 km)> F-35 (AIM-120D, 100-120km)> = F -22 (same as F-35)> = Su-57 (R-77, <= 100km)

Fighting radius:
J-20 (2000km +, once to cover the entire territory of Japan)> Su-57 (1200-1500km)> = F-35 (1100-1200km)> F-22 (750 -850km)

radar detection range (data is not sure):
J-20 (400km)> = Su-57 (400km, doubt raised)> F-35 ( 300km +)> F-22 (250km + [?])

Avionics system
J-20 (has a powerful detection capability, as well as a large number of detection systems such as IRST, which are all different on the Internet)> F-35 (due to newer reasons, avionics is still very powerful , All aspects of ability are relatively strong)> F-22 (due to the age and restrictions of the body design, some updates will be more difficult, the detection ability is not as good as the top 2) / Su-57 (focus on anti-stealth, ranking difficult to determine Maybe you can go to the front)

Mobility:
J-20 (full-motion differential duck wing, vertical tail, ternary omnidirectional vector engine, lift coefficient 2 +)> Su-57 (full-motion vertical tail, binary vector engine But 360-degree torque output)> F-22 (upper and lower binary vector engines, lift coefficient 1.5-1.8)> F-35 (unable to compare with the previous three)

in the stealth state (comprehensive load capacity and missile performance ):
J-20 (air-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, and ground bombs can be built in)> F-22 (air-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, and ground-bombs can be built in, anti-ship missiles are unknown, but the load elasticity is weaker than the annihilation -20)> F-35 (air-to-air missiles, ground bombs can be built in, anti-ship missiles Known, but weaker than payload F-22)> Su-57 (AAM can be built, for bombs seemingly may also be embedded, anti-ship missiles is unknown. However, the performance of the built-in missile is weaker than the previous three.)


Through so many rounds of comparison, in addition to the engine life, among the known factors,

the first place: J-20
second place: F-22
third place: F-35
Four: Su-57

But through the design theory of stealth performance, the J-20 is superior to the F-22. However, there are too many factors in the actual situation. The actual holding amount of F-22 is about 170-180, and the J-20 can continue production. Sooner or later, due to the details of stealth paint and aerodynamic design, it is difficult to determine the actual RCS who is stronger. And after replacing the 4th generation machine (winning the bid), it will be found that it is an unrealistic idea to use the 3rd generation machine for the 4th generation machine, and the future economic development and military needs, so the output may be more than the so-called 500 aircraft. The fact that F-35 can be exported indicates that its most important performance is necessarily weaker than F-22. Production of the Su-57 was extremely slow, and only one crashed recently.

Weapons alone is not desirable. China, the United States, and Russia are fighting local warfare, and because of their strong logistics, they will not easily lose. For local wars or local conflicts on third-party battlefields, the combat system must also be considered.

At least, the United States and its allies together will have the world's largest air force and combat system, a large number of bomber fleets, fighter fleets, tanker fleets, transport aircraft fleets, early warning aircraft fleets, helicopter fleets ... and In other countries' own battles, naval wars must be taken into account. The US Navy is the world's first with a strong carrier fleet.

Therefore, the U.S. military is currently the world's most powerful. With the aid of the combat system, the combat effectiveness of the J-20 can only be ranked second or even third. In other answers, there are battle deductions of early warning aircraft and radar switches in various combat situations. In the case of J-20 and F-22 one-on-one heads-up, the J-20 will not be worse than the F-22. But modern warfare considers the operation of a complete system, which is a very high requirement for logistics and command. With the assistance
source......
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30 words rule sucks suck
J-20 World Ranking

For the time being, put the J-20 in the second place, and the first place will be assigned to the F-22.) If you simply compare the parameters. ....

Stealth performance:
F-22> = J-20> F-35> Su-57

engine thrust:
J-20 (WS-15, 18t +)> = F-35 (F135, 18t)> = Su -57 (AL-41F3, 18t)> F-22 (F119, 15.8t)> J-20 (WS-10G, 15.8t [?])

Aircraft speed:
J-20 (Mach 2.5+)> F-22 ( Mach 2.25)> Su-57 (Mach 2)> F-35 (Mach 1.6)

Ammunition load in stealth state:
J-20 (6 + 2 [or 6 + 4, side magazines may be found with unilateral loading 2 F-22 (6 + 2)> = Su-57 (2 + 2 + 2, two missile bays in the middle and front each loaded with 2 missiles, one left and one combat bomb bay)> = F-35 ( 2 + 2, 2 ground-to-ground bombs + 2 medium-range air-to-air missiles)

Main missile range:
J-20 (PL-15, 150-200 km)> F-35 (AIM-120D, 100-120km)> = F -22 (same as F-35)> = Su-57 (R-77, <= 100km)

Fighting radius:
J-20 (2000km +, once to cover the entire territory of Japan)> Su-57 (1200-1500km)> = F-35 (1100-1200km)> F-22 (750 -850km)

radar detection range (data is not sure):
J-20 (400km)> = Su-57 (400km, doubt raised)> F-35 ( 300km +)> F-22 (250km + [?])

Avionics system
J-20 (has a powerful detection capability, as well as a large number of detection systems such as IRST, which are all different on the Internet)> F-35 (due to newer reasons, avionics is still very powerful , All aspects of ability are relatively strong)> F-22 (due to the age and restrictions of the body design, some updates will be more difficult, the detection ability is not as good as the top 2) / Su-57 (focus on anti-stealth, ranking difficult to determine Maybe you can go to the front)

Mobility:
J-20 (full-motion differential duck wing, vertical tail, ternary omnidirectional vector engine, lift coefficient 2 +)> Su-57 (full-motion vertical tail, binary vector engine But 360-degree torque output)> F-22 (upper and lower binary vector engines, lift coefficient 1.5-1.8)> F-35 (unable to compare with the previous three)

in the stealth state (comprehensive load capacity and missile performance ):
J-20 (air-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, and ground bombs can be built in)> F-22 (air-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, and ground-bombs can be built in, anti-ship missiles are unknown, but the load elasticity is weaker than the annihilation -20)> F-35 (air-to-air missiles, ground bombs can be built in, anti-ship missiles Known, but weaker than payload F-22)> Su-57 (AAM can be built, for bombs seemingly may also be embedded, anti-ship missiles is unknown. However, the performance of the built-in missile is weaker than the previous three.)


Through so many rounds of comparison, in addition to the engine life, among the known factors,

the first place: J-20
second place: F-22
third place: F-35
Four: Su-57

But through the design theory of stealth performance, the J-20 is superior to the F-22. However, there are too many factors in the actual situation. The actual holding amount of F-22 is about 170-180, and the J-20 can continue production. Sooner or later, due to the details of stealth paint and aerodynamic design, it is difficult to determine the actual RCS who is stronger. And after replacing the 4th generation machine (winning the bid), it will be found that it is an unrealistic idea to use the 3rd generation machine for the 4th generation machine, and the future economic development and military needs, so the output may be more than the so-called 500 aircraft. The fact that F-35 can be exported indicates that its most important performance is necessarily weaker than F-22. Production of the Su-57 was extremely slow, and only one crashed recently.

Weapons alone is not desirable. China, the United States, and Russia are fighting local warfare, and because of their strong logistics, they will not easily lose. For local wars or local conflicts on third-party battlefields, the combat system must also be considered.

At least, the United States and its allies together will have the world's largest air force and combat system, a large number of bomber fleets, fighter fleets, tanker fleets, transport aircraft fleets, early warning aircraft fleets, helicopter fleets ... and In other countries' own battles, naval wars must be taken into account. The US Navy is the world's first with a strong carrier fleet.

Therefore, the U.S. military is currently the world's most powerful. With the aid of the combat system, the combat effectiveness of the J-20 can only be ranked second or even third. In other answers, there are battle deductions of early warning aircraft and radar switches in various combat situations. In the case of J-20 and F-22 one-on-one heads-up, the J-20 will not be worse than the F-22. But modern warfare considers the operation of a complete system, which is a very high requirement for logistics and command. With the assistance of the Chinese and American combat systems, the F-20's chances of winning the F-22 will not be too great. However, the J-20 is a very good fighter aircraft, and even if it is first in the international arena, it is normal conclusion.


To add, the pedigree of the J-20. Many people at home and abroad like to find fathers for China's weapons and equipment.

Some people say that they are copying F-22, some people are imitating F-35, and some people are learning MiG 1.44 ...

But the world's original duck wings interact with high distances. Change, full-motion differential vertical tail + duck wing + three-way omnidirectional vector engine, DSI inlet, lift side wings.

What's more, anyone who really understands understands that the aerodynamic design is the J-20 using the J-9 (a very rigorous process, from design to test demonstration, to subsequent fine-tuning and modification, all have to do a lot of theoretical calculations and wind tunnels The design is not just copying at will.) The design of the 1970s is highly similar to the J-20, but was dismissed due to insufficient high and economic development.) Later, the J-10 also had the same as the J-9. Lots of similarities. The preliminary design of the J-20 has begun since the mid-1990s. It took years of technical reserves to build up an extremely good fighter such as the J-20!
source..........................................
 

f3243007008

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he is from hong kong .... at first it thought i am reading a chinese propoganda novel than i realised i am on DFI ...since when chinese become so open about their weapon systems... bu those standard J17 is 10th gen fighter jet..

sorry could not resist...
Request Hindustan Aeronautics design a new stealth fight Jet.

Compete with J-20 , F-22 , F-35 & Su-57.
 

Kumata

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Request Hindustan Aeronautics design a new stealth fight Jet.

Compete with J-20 , F-22 , F-35 & Su-57.
Right..we have designed LCA from scratch and the learning curve is there so i am sure HAL is already working on it... atleast we are not stealing and being copycats...Have some shame ...

And bring your copy cats in real war... u will see how they behave... number donesnt win you wars ..incase u now..
 

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