ISRO's Reusable Launch Vehicles

[AnantS]

They have abandonned the study for now since 2001. Though the Idea is maverick. But it NOT related to RLV TD.

No! Research for DMRJ(Dual Mode Ramjet) is still going on. http://m.thehindu.com/sci-tech/scie...at-takes-its-fuel-from-air/article8642135.ece

 

[Anupu]

my all dreams for the RLV are collapsing everyday..
first i thought it will be ssto , turned out to be TSTO.
thought IT will use scramjet , reality is semi cryogenic engine.
i use to think this will liquify O2 from atmosphere as fuel but the story is different..

NOW TELL ME HOW THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM AMERICAN SHUTTLE EXCEPT THIS RLV SEPARATES INTO TWO IN SPACE..(TSTO)..

THIS RLV IS SLOWLY TURNING OUT TO BE FREAKING US SHUTTLE.. GOD NO..WE WILL DO NOTHING NEW THEN, JUST INDIANISING THE US SHUTTLE PROGRAM..

please explain , what is maverick? i dont knw about it.

Sorry it's absolutely different and as for semi-cryo engine is concerned, who told you scramjet has been ruled out. There is no similar program as TSTO in the world... The point is to achieve full reusability, space-shuttle was not fully reusable. The tank was a major component the wasn't reusable, and so were the solid boosters. The TSTO if actualized will be revolutionary. So don't worry too much.

 

[gslv markIII]

my all dreams for the RLV are collapsing everyday..
first i thought it will be ssto , turned out to be TSTO.
thought IT will use scramjet , reality is semi cryogenic engine.

Scramjet powered SSTO might happen,several years further. This was a road map made in 2005

i use to think this will liquify O2 from atmosphere as fuel but the story is different..

AVATAR was merely a concept,developed on the basis of a study by DRDO. ISRO s not related to it.

NOW TELL ME HOW THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM AMERICAN SHUTTLE EXCEPT THIS RLV SEPARATES INTO TWO IN SPACE..(TSTO)..

US space shuttle never had a flyback booster.

 

[gslv markIII]

They will need to develop a 5 tonne thrust scramjet for SPEX. That might only happen in the next decade,but still.

 

[Akask kumar]

No! Research for DMRJ(Dual Mode Ramjet) is still going on. http://m.thehindu.com/sci-tech/scie...at-takes-its-fuel-from-air/article8642135.ece

Generally, vehicles that are used to launch satellites use combustion of propellants with oxidiser and fuel. The air-breathing propulsion system aims at using oxygen present in the atmosphere up to 50 km from the earth’s surface to burn the fuel stored in the rocket.

Lower lift-off mass

“This system, when implemented, would help in reducing the lift-off mass of the vehicle since liquefied oxygen need not be carried on board the vehicle. This would also help increasing the efficiency of the rocket and also make it cost-effective,” Mr. Sivan said.

The new propulsion system, once mastered, would complement ISRO’s aim to develop a reusable launch vehicle that would have longer flight duration. The system, involving the scramjet engine, would become crucial while sending up the spacecraft.

“This is like satellites making use of solar power. Likewise, this technology aims to take oxygen from the atmosphere instead of carrying it all the way,” he explained.

According to ISRO, the Dual Mode Ramjet (DMRJ), the ramjet-scramjet combination, “is currently under development, which will operate during the crucial Mach 3 to Mach 9 ascend flight of the launch vehicle.”

THANK YOU.. THIS WILL SILENT EVERY ONE..

 

[sasum]

nope it will.. i am 100% sure about that. thats how they are going to reduce the weight and reduce the launching cost.you dont have to carry a big part of the fuel right from the ground.. That was the original concept behind AVATAR RLV..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(spacecraft)

Cryogenic engine is a rocket engine. All rocket engines.. solid or liquid propelled, carry their own fuel and oxidizer in sealed tanks. They don't intake air. In cryo engines, pre-cooled LH2 & LOX are filled in separate tanks and burnt in combustion chamber. LOX is not produced on the fly. Cryogenic engine can also work in space like other rocket engines, because they dont need oxidizer from outside!!
Avatar page of wikipedia may be talking about some novel trick.

 

[AnantS]

Sorry it's absolutely different and as for semi-cryo engine is concerned, who told you scramjet has been ruled out. There is no similar program as TSTO in the world... The point is to achieve full reusability, space-shuttle was not fully reusable. The tank was a major component the wasn't reusable, and so were the solid boosters. The TSTO if actualized will be revolutionary. So don't worry too much.

ummm, no! US and Soviets have worked on plenty of similar kind of projects.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Guys what kind of rocket was used to carry the RLV? Can anyone help??

Advanced Technology Vehicle (ATV), a sounding rocket in service with ISRO.

 

[sasum]

The air-breathing propulsion system aims at using oxygen present in the atmosphere up to 50 km from the earth’s surface to burn the fuel stored in the rocket.

This confirms that upto 50 km above, it will be RAM followed by SCRAM (air breathing). RAM engine is reusable. SCRAM will require heat-shield to prevent burn-out and being able to reuse. Above 50 km, in thin atmosphere/ vacuum, semi-cryo will be used.

 

[Screambowl]

my all dreams for the RLV are collapsing everyday..
first i thought it will be ssto , turned out to be TSTO.
thought IT will use scramjet , reality is semi cryogenic engine.
i use to think this will liquify O2 from atmosphere as fuel but the story is different..

NOW TELL ME HOW THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM AMERICAN SHUTTLE EXCEPT THIS RLV SEPARATES INTO TWO IN SPACE..(TSTO)..

THIS RLV IS SLOWLY TURNING OUT TO BE FREAKING US SHUTTLE.. GOD NO..WE WILL DO NOTHING NEW THEN, JUST INDIANISING THE US SHUTTLE PROGRAM..

please explain , what is maverick? i dont knw about it.

first of all Shuttle of US is very costly and based on old technologies. India is aiming not to build US shuttle but Indian shuttle which can send 1kg at min cost to space than the rest. It will be based on 21st century technologies.

Semi cryogenic engine is the factor. Because kerosene is cheap.

maverick is an adjective used to explain uncommon tricks/way .

 

[Akask kumar]

This confirms that upto 50 km above, it will be RAM followed by SCRAM (air breathing). RAM engine is reusable. SCRAM will require heat-shield to prevent burn-out and being able to reuse. Above 50 km, in thin atmosphere/ vacuum, semi-cryo will be used.

yes..
boosters to accelerate to mach 3 +
then ramjet uptill mach 5+
then scramjet till edge of atmosphere.. mach 8+
now sufficinet delta v for the top part to separate from where the semicryogenic engine will take the payload in absolute space and orbit..

so ISRO will develop DMR(dual mode ramjet) ramjet-scramjet engine.. thats the way to go.. no onboard oxygen..no useless weight..

 

[cobra commando]

______________________________

 

[Screambowl]

This confirms that upto 50 km above, it will be RAM followed by SCRAM (air breathing). RAM engine is reusable. SCRAM will require heat-shield to prevent burn-out and being able to reuse. Above 50 km, in thin atmosphere/ vacuum, semi-cryo will be used.

I don't think it will hold sufficient fuel to reach space station if this is the plan and return too.

 

[sasum]

Avatar page of wikipedia may be talking about some novel trick.

It is an outlandish concept called LACE (Liquid Air Cycle Engine). This was studied and abandoned by NASA in 60s.
Conceptually, LACE works by intaking atmospheric air, compressing and then quickly liquefying the air. Compression is achieved through the ram-air effect in an intake similar to that found on a high-speed aircraft like Concorde, where intake ramps create shock waves that compress the air. The LACE design then blows the compressed air over a heat exchanger, in which the liquid hydrogen fuel is flowing. This rapidly cools the air, and the various constituents quickly liquefy. By careful mechanical arrangement the liquid oxygen can be removed from the other parts of the air, notably water, nitrogen and carbon dioxide, at which point the liquid oxygen can be fed into the engine as usual. The hydrogen is so much lighter than oxygen that the now-warmer hydrogen is often dumped overboard instead of being re-used as fuel, at a net gain.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_air_cycle_engine

 

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[Anupu]

ummm, no! US and Soviets have worked on plenty of similar kind of projects.

Ummm no!... not even one went past concept stage...X-20 is the US concept which is similar to RLV-TD. It's not similar to TSTO.

 

[AnantS]

Ummm no!... not even one went past concept stage...X-20 is the US concept which is similar to RLV-TD. It's not similar to TSTO.

Correct, But others too have experimented their vehicles, by sky dropping from high altitude, that is similar to what we have done. I am only comparing RLV-TD.

But even TSTO is still a concept, far away, just like others before. Space projects are risky and especially when you are working with unproven new tech and dicey budget.

 

[Anupu]

Correct, But others too have experimented their vehicles, by sky dropping from high altitude, that is similar to what we have done. I am only comparing RLV-TD.

But even TSTO is still a concept, far away, just like others before. Space projects are risky and especially when you are working with unproven new tech and dicey budget.

Early days, my friend.......................................

 

[pmaitra]

my all dreams for the RLV are collapsing everyday..
first i thought it will be ssto , turned out to be TSTO.
thought IT will use scramjet , reality is semi cryogenic engine.
i use to think this will liquify O2 from atmosphere as fuel but the story is different..

NOW TELL ME HOW THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM AMERICAN SHUTTLE EXCEPT THIS RLV SEPARATES INTO TWO IN SPACE..(TSTO)..

THIS RLV IS SLOWLY TURNING OUT TO BE FREAKING US SHUTTLE.. GOD NO..WE WILL DO NOTHING NEW THEN, JUST INDIANISING THE US SHUTTLE PROGRAM..

please explain , what is maverick? i dont knw about it.

Apropos SSTO:

Tsiolkovsky calculated, using the Tsiolkovsky equation,[9]:1 that the horizontal speed required for a minimal orbit around the Earth is 8,000 m/s (5 miles per second) and that this could be achieved by means of a multistage rocket fueled by liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen.

Source: Konstantin Tsiolkovsky

No Earth-launched SSTO launch vehicles have ever been constructed. To date, orbital launches have been performed either by multi-stage fully or partially expendable rockets, the Space Shuttle having both attributes.

Source: Single-stage-to-orbit

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Form follows function. That is why, the Soviet Space Shuttle Buran is very similar to the US Space Shuttles. It is the same reason why the Concorde looks very similar to the Tupolev-144. It is no surprise that the RLV-TD looks very much like the US Space Shuttle.

This is a technology demonstrator, i.e. downsized. This went up in tandem configuration, i.e., the RLV-TD was placed on top of the rocket. When the life size final RLV is made, it will probably ride saddle-back like the US Space Shuttles and the Buran.