INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[Jangaruda]

No need of Rafale M for INS Vishal by the tym Vishal is inducted we'd probably hav Naval Pak Fa nd Naval AMCA both being 5th Gen fighters

 

[Superdefender]

No need of Rafale M for INS Vishal by the tym Vishal is inducted we'd probably hav Naval Pak Fa nd Naval AMCA both being 5th Gen fighters

I think Naval PAK-FA is only for Russians. Never the less, it will be too big for carrier and will take more space. N-AMCA is just perfect.

 

[Gessler]

No need of Rafale M for INS Vishal by the tym Vishal is inducted we'd probably hav Naval Pak Fa nd Naval AMCA both being 5th Gen fighters

Naval PAK-FA is very unlikely for India as we're going for a CATOBAR carrier.

About AMCA, let's say Vishal will come by the next 10 years (2026). HAL hopes to put Tejas Mk-2 in service by around that time (2024). So how do you expect AMCA to be ready by the same time, less still a naval version?

Expect AMCA only in the 2030s. But it will eventually come for the IAC-2. But before that we'll have atleast 1 carrier of the IAC-2 class ready and we need sufficient numbers of Rafale-M for that. Even after AMCA comes, it won't be the only fighter on IAC-2 class ships, there will be Rafales on them as well.

There is a VLO upgrade program for Rafale called DEDIRA. You will see details post 2020. We don't need any other 5th gen fighter for Navy.

 

[Jangaruda]

Naval PAK-FA is very unlikely for India as we're going for a CATOBAR carrier.

About AMCA, let's say Vishal will come by the next 10 years (2026). HAL hopes to put Tejas Mk-2 in service by around that time (2024). So how do you expect AMCA to be ready by the same time, less still a naval version?

Expect AMCA only in the 2030s. But it will eventually come for the IAC-2. But before that we'll have atleast 1 carrier of the IAC-2 class ready and we need sufficient numbers of Rafale-M for that. Even after AMCA comes, it won't be the only fighter on IAC-2 class ships, there will be Rafales on them as well.

There is a VLO upgrade program for Rafale called DEDIRA. You will see details post 2020. We don't need any other 5th gen fighter for Navy.

But dude wont the rafale be a little outdated with limited growth potential by the tym Vishal is commisioned...

 

[Gessler]

But dude wont the rafale be a little outdated with limited growth potential by the tym Vishal is commisioned...

PEA Incas - GaN upgrade for the AESA radar
TRAGEDAC - Offboard sensor-fusion for passive targeting solutions (Spectra upgrade)
MELBAA - Conformal radar arrays
DEDIRA - a VLO version of Rafale. Achieved through airframe-shaping as well as much-improved Active Cancellation of incoming radar waves

In short, there is over 30 years worth of growth potential in the Rafale. So relax.

 

[Superdefender]

Naval PAK-FA is very unlikely for India as we're going for a CATOBAR carrier.

About AMCA, let's say Vishal will come by the next 10 years (2026). HAL hopes to put Tejas Mk-2 in service by around that time (2024). So how do you expect AMCA to be ready by the same time, less still a naval version?

Expect AMCA only in the 2030s. But it will eventually come for the IAC-2. But before that we'll have atleast 1 carrier of the IAC-2 class ready and we need sufficient numbers of Rafale-M for that. Even after AMCA comes, it won't be the only fighter on IAC-2 class ships, there will be Rafales on them as well.

There is a VLO upgrade program for Rafale called DEDIRA. You will see details post 2020. We don't need any other 5th gen fighter for Navy.

I know N-AMCA will not be ready around 2025. But after induction, lets say around 2027/28, it will serve on Vishal. And Rafale-M?? After 1 decade, will Navy still use it? I donot think so.

 

[garg_bharat]

Theoretical scenario is India will build a 10b ins vishal with another 10 b air component.

The realistic scenario is ins vishal will be cancelled saving the country 20b.

We shall see which scenario unfolds.

In my view a half dozen arihant class removes the need of ins vishal.

 

[garg_bharat]

Ins vishal has not been sanctioned yet. As is the case of very high priced projects, there are many a slip between the cup and the lip.

 

[garg_bharat]

Dreams of amca are idle dreams as none can be realistically projected. A timeline will be known only after a prototype starts flying.

Amca is conditional to success of LCA tejas in iaf service. So it is a very long story.

 

[Gessler]

I know N-AMCA will not be ready around 2025. But after induction, lets say around 2027/28, it will serve on Vishal. And Rafale-M?? After 1 decade, will Navy still use it? I donot think so.

I do think so. Infact there is scope for over 100-150 Rafale-M aircraft for the Indian Navy. Atleast around 50 will be procured initially for the first carrier of the IAC-2 type.

AMCA is a very distant possibility. Don't think too much about it...if everything goes according to plan and on schedule (it NEVER does) we will induct the Tejas Mk-2 by ~2025 period and only after that can the agencies concentrate on building AMCA.

We would we extremely lucky if we can see AMCA prototypes flying by 2027. And I'm talking about the Air Force version..Navy version could take even longer. Unless they start with it first.

Still it's just wishful thinking.

Even IF the AMCA is ready for induction by 2029-2030 sharp...it would only compliment the Rafale-M on the
IAC-2 carriers.

++

Anyway, the IN & MoD have already begun discussing the Rafale-M with Dassault. They're waiting for the Rafale deal's Make in India component to get sorted before they come forward with a requirement for getting naval Rafale-M version aircraft from the same production lines.

 

[Gessler]

In my view a half dozen arihant class removes the need of ins vishal.

Logically, half a dozen monkeys should remove the need for people like you.

 

[garg_bharat]

Logically, half a dozen monkeys should remove the need for people like you.

For you, only one will suffice.

Note it down that I am never wrong.

 

[Gessler]

For you, only one will suffice.

Atleast you agree that I do lesser monkey business than you.

Me = 1 monkey
You = 6 monkeys

LOL

Note it down that I am never wrong.

Oh, duly noted.

 

[garg_bharat]

Aircraft carriers are sitting ducks. China has spent heavily in weapons to kill carriers.

You buy stuff which gives you a military advantage, and a carrier simply does not.

India can easily get an airbase in north Africa which will help far more than Ac.

 

[garg_bharat]

More airstrips in Andmans and couple of bases in middle east and north Africa solves the problem. India should talk to Bahrain.

 

[Gessler]

China has spent heavily in weapons to kill carriers.

...not nearly as much as they're spending to build new carriers.

^^ Two of those are under construction right now.

 

[garg_bharat]

China is building carriers when its economy has surpassed 10t and its trade has surpassed India's GDP.

No comparison.

 

[Superdefender]

Very soon, US Navy will include Railgun ver. 1 in their next. gen. Destroyers, making Aircraft carriers bye bye. You think Chinkies donot know this, @garg_bharat!! Then why are they still building ACs? It does not work like that..

 

[Gessler]

..................................................................deleted.

 

[Gessler]

Very soon, US Navy will include Railgun ver. 1 in their next. gen. Destroyers, making Aircraft carriers bye bye. You think Chinkies donot know this, @garg_bharat!! Then why are they still building ACs? It does not work like that..

Relax. He's an idiot. I only just realized it.

If he has his way, he will scrap every single defence project we're running right now, and will urge all Indians to quickly learn Chinese/Mandarin.

Probably a Paki troll.