Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

sameer3694

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So we have to import
Even if no competitors left we will wait for them to develop and then import
While having a home grown aip and all the necessary building blocks for submarine

Par nahi we will import even if we have to wake up western or Israeli companies from coffin

If we concentrate we can build p-76 faster than this p-75i
Don't worry, The fate of P75-I will be similar to the MMRCA program. Won't be materializing anytime soon. It'll end up in the graveyard of Indian babucracy.
 

Azaad

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Don't worry, The fate of P75-I will be similar to the MMRCA program. Won't be materializing anytime soon. It'll end up in the graveyard of Indian babucracy.
If you don't see anything happening within this financial year especially w.r.t the Rafales , your statement would hold true. Caveat - the present administration returns to power with a full majority on its own without any allies.
 

mamamia12

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Don't worry, The fate of P75-I will be similar to the MMRCA program. Won't be materializing anytime soon. It'll end up in the graveyard of Indian babucracy.
When I looked back, why would this program even need to be in Current Situation? I mean may be ten years back it would had made sense but attempting to do it now instead of going indigenous. If Single Vendor Situation happens again, atleast it would knock some sense in Navy regarding Sub-Surface Combatants.
 

sameer3694

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If you don't see anything happening within this financial year especially w.r.t the Rafales , your statement would hold true. Caveat - the present administration returns to power with a full majority on its own without any allies.
I do hope it moves along(quickly), though even with the new admin, I'm not that optimistic as long as Rajnath singh is in that seat.
 

sameer3694

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When I looked back, why would this program even need to be in Current Situation? I mean may be ten years back it would had made sense but attempting to do it now instead of going indigenous. If Single Vendor Situation happens again, atleast it would knock some sense in Navy regarding Sub-Surface Combatants.
A lot of these contracts involve long drawn out negotiations, offset clauses, liability responsibilities etc. For example: In the original deal with Dassault( MRCA program: 126 aircraft), GOI wanted Dassault to be liable and assume responsibility for any rafale co-manufactured by HAL, which Dassault just wouldn't agree to and ended up causing delays.

And then as years pass by, costs go up, entire contract needs to be renegotiated again, with new make in India clauses ,TOT offsets, governments get voted out and new ones come in power with different priorities etc etc. You know, the cycle continues.

Even in the P75-I program, the tender had some liability clauses due to which if I remember correctly Saab and another player backed out. leading to the single vendor situation with another reason being the navy insisting on proven AIP tech.

The unbelievably complex tendering process for MRCA and P75-I needs to be simplified else these programs aren't going anywhere and tbh these programs are just very very late now.

I agree on the indigenous tech at least for the naval program. Honestly, at this point we should go in full throttle.
My first and urgent priorities would be:
-Retrofit the existing 6 Kalavari scorpenes with DRDO Aip and get them certified by Naval group. asap
-wrap up negotiations of 3 new scorpenes with Drdo Aip.
-either acquire more scorpenes with the above config (and/or) speed up Project 76
-Finally speed up the development of the CLWR-B2 reactor which will(most likely) form the base for our future SSN's
 

Smoothbore125mm

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A lot of these contracts involve long drawn out negotiations, offset clauses, liability responsibilities etc. For example: In the original deal with Dassault( MRCA program: 126 aircraft), GOI wanted Dassault to be liable and assume responsibility for any rafale co-manufactured by HAL, which Dassault just wouldn't agree to and ended up causing delays.

And then as years pass by, costs go up, entire contract needs to be renegotiated again, with new make in India clauses ,TOT offsets, governments get voted out and new ones come in power with different priorities etc etc. You know, the cycle continues.

Even in the P75-I program, the tender had some liability clauses due to which if I remember correctly Saab and another player backed out. leading to the single vendor situation with another reason being the navy insisting on proven AIP tech.

The unbelievably complex tendering process for MRCA and P75-I needs to be simplified else these programs aren't going anywhere and tbh these programs are just very very late now.

I agree on the indigenous tech at least for the naval program. Honestly, at this point we should go in full throttle.
My first and urgent priorities would be:
-Retrofit the existing 6 Kalavari scorpenes with DRDO Aip and get them certified by Naval group. asap
-wrap up negotiations of 3 new scorpenes with Drdo Aip.
-either acquire more scorpenes with the above config (and/or) speed up Project 76
-Finally speed up the development of the CLWR-B2 reactor which will(most likely) form the base for our future SSN's
at this point better to get 6 more scorpene instead of 3 scrap p75i and work on the ssn apart from that i dont know whats the problem with the drdo aip is it too bad or maybe unrefined but i think we would never know since scorpene are already present with us ordering repeat order would be better
and reguarding indian scenario better to go forward with ssn rather than ssk which would be mostly fighting the western neighbour only
 

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars The Vikrant Carrier Battle Group = Vikrant, 1 Visakhapatnam class Destroyer, 1 Nilgiri Class Frigate, 1 Kamorta Class Corvette, 1 Kalveri Class Submarine and 1 Tanker atleast.

GOKF_9rWIAA9Nyf.jpeg
 
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binayak95

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Ya'll Nibbiars The Vikrant Carrier Battle Group = Vikrant, 1 Visakhapatnam class Destroyer, 1 Nilgiro Class Frigate, 1 Kamorta Class Corvette, 1 Kalveri Class Submarine and 1 Tanker atleast.

View attachment 254218
1 1 se nahi chalega. 2 P15A/Bs, 3 P17As/P17/Talwar and multiple ASW assets. alas we lack ASW assets
 

Haldilal

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1 1 se nahi chalega. 2 P15A/Bs, 3 P17As/P17/Talwar and multiple ASW assets. alas we lack ASW assets
Ya'll Nibbiars sadly we can't spare that many units nowadays. That's why need ti incresse the inductions speed of newer classes and in larger numbers.
 

SKC

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Ya'll Nibbiars The Vikrant Carrier Battle Group = Vikrant, 1 Visakhapatnam class Destroyer, 1 Nilgiri Class Frigate, 1 Kamorta Class Corvette, 1 Kalveri Class Submarine and 1 Tanker atleast.

View attachment 254218
Vikrant is a very well-designed carrier. It has one of the best Desk among the non-nuclear carriers (<65K ton displacement).
If possible, in future open up a commercial line for other countries :cool1:
(Its just my wish)
 

shade

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If you don't see anything happening within this financial year especially w.r.t the Rafales , your statement would hold true. Caveat - the present administration returns to power with a full majority on its own without any allies.
You mean the naval ones or the MRFA 100 planes deal?
The last time he bought a mere 36 rafales and such loud barkings were heard from the usual suspects
Uncle Sam also may have put a megaphone to their snouts, salty that the Indians aren't being good slaves and buying F16 instead
 

Azaad

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You mean the naval ones or the MRFA 100 planes deal?
The last time he bought a mere 36 rafales and such loud barkings were heard from the usual suspects
Uncle Sam also may have put a megaphone to their snouts, salty that the Indians aren't being good slaves and buying F16 instead
MRFA. The naval deal isn't that critical considering we're going in for MLUs of the existing submarines & ordering 3 more Scorpenes.
 

shade

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MRFA. The naval deal isn't that critical considering we're going in for MLUs of the existing ones & ordering 3 more Scorpenes.
Yea really hope it goes through and there is local manufacturing.
Dassault orderbooks are full now so anything we buy will be backlogged, so we need to have some local assembly atleast
 

Azaad

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Yea really hope it goes through and there is local manufacturing.
Dassault orderbooks are full now so anything we buy will be backlogged, so we need to have some local assembly atleast
They already have a set up at MIHAN Nagpur where they're assembling their Falcon executive jets.

Dassault CEO Eric Trappier has indicated plenty of times in the past that they're willing to set up a production facility in India provided they get a minimum of 100 nos order.

I say even if we don't go in for the MRFA tender & order 54 nos for the IAF, if we couple the IN order with it, that itself would amount to 80 nos. Dassault can be persuaded to establish a line here if we dangle a carrot of say 36 more for the IAF & a possible 26 nos repeat order for the IN in the not so distant future.
 

Haldilal

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Vikrant is a very well-designed carrier. It has one of the best Desk among the non-nuclear carriers (<65K ton displacement).
If possible, in future open up a commercial line for other countries :cool1:
(Its just my wish)
Ya'll Nibbiars That's why going for a sister ship wouldn't be suprised if another one is als9 ordered a trip of three, the INS Vishal is only possible in the 30's. Would be possible to construct two carriers in 40K Crores.
 
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