Indian Economy: News and Discussion

another_armchair

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Trying to be dumb ?

You don't find anything wrong in a few individuals incrementing their wealth by billions of dollars at a time when poverty is increasing and middle class is shrinking ?

It's not about making political statements or a debate about capitalism vs communisim.

It's the shear grotesqueness to watch wealth being accumulated at the hands of a few and the masses left to lurch.
No wonder things like Naxalism prevails over the country.
If Mukesh, Adani, Tata, Premji & sundry others saw a meteoric rise in their net worth, Anil Ambani saw his net worth fall. Shouldn't have happened in a perfectly evil capitalist world no?


No wonder, Naxalism/Marxism is loathed by those with a functional brain.

Saap aur chut communist, jidhar bhi milay, maar do.

 
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Bhumihar

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I have but one qualm with the rich of India that they don't invest their profit in Indian Startup's. I see Investment by foreign company into Tonbo, don't know why a Indian company couldn't do the same.
Maybe we haven't incubated a culture for investment.
 

Lonewolf

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I have but one qualm with the rich of India that they don't invest their profit in Indian Startup's. I see Investment by foreign company into Tonbo, don't know why a Indian company couldn't do the same.
Maybe we haven't incubated a culture for investment.
That's my take too , well some are investing nowadays but not at all at required level
 

ezsasa

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I have but one qualm with the rich of India that they don't invest their profit in Indian Startup's. I see Investment by foreign company into Tonbo, don't know why a Indian company couldn't do the same.
Maybe we haven't incubated a culture for investment.
there is another side of the story too. every day many people come to the "traditional rich" with crazy deals (land, infra and whatnot), and most of them are scams. so the traditional rich too get thick skinned even when a genuine case of startup goes to them, and are suspicious.

so yes, this is a problem. but needs to be tackled in a different manner. if there could some sort of trustworthy layer in between which can genuinely sort out scams, so that people get interested in investing in start ups. by trustworthy layer i mean auditors of sorts, who will line up verified startups to pick and choose based on several criteria.
 

shade

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I have but one qualm with the rich of India that they don't invest their profit in Indian Startup's. I see Investment by foreign company into Tonbo, don't know why a Indian company couldn't do the same.
Maybe we haven't incubated a culture for investment.
Most of these suits are like Mallya, they invest abroad so it's a plan B for them incase things go south here.
Anil wasn't that smart, so he has to do bankruptcy proceedings and keep his benami low-key.

It could be related to the fact that the Bijness people's don't like to take risks.
 

another_armchair

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I have but one qualm with the rich of India that they don't invest their profit in Indian Startup's. I see Investment by foreign company into Tonbo, don't know why a Indian company couldn't do the same.
Maybe we haven't incubated a culture for investment.
Indian VC's and investors have been scammed one too many times in the past with bright ideas so what they scrutinize is a viable and sustained 'revenue model', so B2C projects which have a large target audience finds more takers.

Pvt defence sector in India was in complete shambles unless you were somebody really big like L&T or someone close to the ecosystem and were assured of orders from DPSU's or were part of that supply chain.

For a brand new innovator like Tonbo, breaking ice itself would take a decade.

ALL(Ashok Leyland Ltd) trucks were put through a 7 year trial period before orders were placed. By then, ALL had moved to newer, more powerful, more fuel efficient models. Such is the case of defence procurement in India. AVINASH4061 has already made a fleeting reference to it in the Special Forces thread.

So it is easier for a company like Merit Nation(absolutely crappy service) or Byjus White Hat Jr to raise capital because they are in the TechEd sector and generating cash flow is easy given its humongous target audience. Hire some field sales chaps at minimum wage and start snaring bakras.

Cutting edge technology particularly related to defence sector such as Tonbo finds least takers because they are considered a black hole. Indian pvt investors and VC's are very wary of cutting edge Defence companies.
It is not that VC's don't have faith in the product. They know for sure small players don't have deep pockets to bribe their way through, though their product may be quite promising or superior to the imported maal that's being ordered.

Have already mentioned in an old post how we were ousted from a DRDO project though we emerged as lowest bidders. The project was cancelled and the new one that was floated was open only to companies with a turnover of Rs. 500 crores which disqualified us automatically. Some days later, a man approached us and said he can still get the project outsourced to us if we pay him Rs. 1.5 crores. We politely declined his services.
 

HitmanBlood

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I have but one qualm with the rich of India that they don't invest their profit in Indian Startup's. I see Investment by foreign company into Tonbo, don't know why a Indian company couldn't do the same.
Maybe we haven't incubated a culture for investment.
Investing/buying small companies give major economical diversity to big companies and also give them important IPs. Unfortunately our traditional business men types are lacking long term vision and have poor understanding of technical aspects. Indian funds manager too also stay away from high risk, high profit investment and prefer low risk stable investment.
 

angryIndian

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What's the issue with it?
Their money their business their profit why should U or me get botherer by it.
Reliance gained money from investment by Google, Facebook etc.
Adani made gain in his various ventures and contracts won.
Where's the issue here.
Do u criticize evey other tom dick and harry on the streets that is doing business and gaining profit at this time?
Where's the issue mate?

I get it Adani bribes gov for some of their Contacts but dont act like u or me wouldn't if we were in his place, the indian babudom demanding bribes is their operation fundamental. Don't u pay ghoose to get your shit done faster?
We bribe in thousands they bribe in millions.

I don't get it I feel like u shouldn't earn what u are earning because I'm poor, would this be justify.
How much do u earn fella? Ours monthly is 35k if u earn more than 50k better send some money to me cause that's what's your preaching.
The Inequality in India is not about one earning 35k and other earning 50k....the inequality in India is about a small segment earning billions of dollars and whose wealth is incrementing by leaps and bounds while the overwhelming majority is struggling for basics.
This economic model is analogous with kleptocracies like Angola,Nigeria and Hiati.

Contrast that to the US where the bottom section has a ford pick up and the rich drive the ferrari.But atleast both have an automobile.There is only a subtle difference between the wealthy and poor as far as access to education, healthcare and social service is concerned. So therefore climbing the economic ladder is much easier in the US than in India.
In India the overwhelming majority are simply trapped in a viscous cycle because most of their resources are spent on basics tools of survival.

Besides, the problem with having such extreme wealthy individuals in a country filled with poverty is that they soon start influencing policymakers into making biased decisions which directly impacts the common masses.
 

angryIndian

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The problem lies is the manner the rich and the non rich generate income. The middle class or anyone below, grow their money in a linear fashion. Earn a fixed income, spend a part of it and keep the remaining in savings scheme. While the rich/businessmen grow money in exponential manner. For example, Adani would take a loan of 1000 cr to develop a port, generate 500 Cr worth of revenue out of it every year, on operational expenditure of 400 cr, make 100 cr as gross company profit, pay 50 cr as loan EMI so that entire 1000 cr is paidback in about 20 yrs time. Out of the remaining 50 cr profit, he can keep 5 cr as director's salary for himself, and pour the remaining 45 cr profit into the company. He can pay 30pcnt income tax on his salary of 5 cr and live a lavish life. This is how the rich generate wealth. Crude example, but hope it serves ur argument.
Adani is not the problem, The problem is India's economic model.
Extreme inequality like in India where 1% have greater wealth than 73% only indicates a very sick economy.
 

another_armchair

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HitmanBlood

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Adani is not the problem, The problem is India's economic model.
Extreme inequality like in India where 1% have greater wealth than 73% only indicates a very sick economy.
Lets say we take all money from 1% and distribute to 73% then those people will go out and buy stuff from various companies. Company owners will make lots of profit while those 73% give away their money, those profit makers will become new 1%

We have to understand here what is wealth. It is a state of resourcefulness. Wealth is not given but created. Money is product of wealth it can be given but only for a temporary period after that it is spent.

Since ancient times there have always been those who are more successful than others hance wealthy. This modern Idea of wealth inequality comes from communism. However even in Communist states there was a wide wealth disparity among ruling elites and comman workers.

There is no econmic model that ever existed or will exist where all people have equal wealth this is not possible. However living standards can be improved. To do that we need money which comes from economic wealth, that wealthy people create. So more wealthy people hance more money hance more job creation, more social programs hance higher living standards.

We humans have biological feelings towards others humans who are doing better than us or worse than us. Its calld jealousy and pity. Thats what leftist politicians invoke. "Hey look a rich guy is driving AC BMW, where a poor labourer is on a bicycle." Such statements do invoke our feelings. We do feel tempted to correct the wrong, punish BMW guy, tax him to oblivion and then you realise that labourer doesn't even have a bicycle anymore because his employer is now bankrupt.
 

Chandragupt Maurya

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He talking like one , and again he is not talking like one.
Freight equilisation and breakup of state in 2000 kept aside , the 90s were indeed lost decade of Bihar.
Bihar contributed what it could, after all what is Bihars or jharkhand is of all bharat.
I would emphasize that, mandal politics in late 80s , gave way to lalu
Plus he wooed muslims , then Congress was a Hindu party jansangh was unheard of.
Librandus will call this a revolt, I say this was classic case of a state population axing its own foot.
There was video on net about Bihars early Industrilisation by film division india , where they called it as ' vigorous heart of india '.
Its not there now , but anyways enjoy this video.
It has many visuals from that one
According to a report by GSI (in 2012) 57% of the gold reserves of India are in just 3 districts of Bihar , Gaya , Nalanda and Munger but these areas are naxalite prone ,
I don’t know who owns these gold mines centre or the state but People of Bihar should demand that whatever is extracted from the sacred land of Bihar will only be used by Bihar state government for upliftment of people of Bihar not by centre to make some stupid expressways or decorating some Mughal monument in Delhi
 

another_armchair

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According to a report by GSI (in 2012) 57% of the gold reserves of India are in just 3 districts of Bihar , Gaya , Nalanda and Munger but these areas are naxalite prone ,
I don’t know who owns these gold mines centre or the state but People of Bihar should demand that whatever is extracted from the sacred land of Bihar will only be used by Bihar state government for upliftment of people of Bihar not by centre to make some stupid expressways or decorating some Mughal monument in Delhi
That's like opening the pandora's box.

What about crude producing states like Assam, Rajasthan, Gujarat?

The state of Assam -

Iron ore, coal and other mineral producing states?

Most mineral producing states get nothing in return other than scorched earth and loss of habitat.


What about tax revenue from IT/ITES exports? Won't they also make similar demands?

Who enjoys most from the crude produced in Assam? Does IOCL pay spot price to the state? Have you seen the lavish lives these blokes lead? The pilferage, corruption etc runs into a few 100 crores easily. The local population forms a fairly small part of the workforce. Most of the executive level posts are cornered by people from different parts of India, including people from Bihar. If we apply your logic here, Assam has a fit case to secede no? Same with Rajasthan or other mineral rich states of India.

We export iron ore for crumbs to China but Indian steel companies are denied access to captive mines within the country.

OTOH, several thermal captive power plants came up in Sundargarh district of Orissa. The place which was once verdant and serene is now pockmarked with mining and captive power plants. The air is smoggy. The coal reserves in that region are said to be the largest in all of Asia and only a fraction of it has been tapped. Good quality coal is available at depths of 10-15 feet. You see truck/tractor loads of coal being illegally mined every day but forest officials have to look the other way because the trucks belong to the forest minister or someone from his party. But the same forest guards must stop a tribal or a villager from carrying a block of coal for his daily use.

Same in Bengal. Free/subsidized electricity has resulted in most coal mines running at huge losses because the state electricity boards don't have any money to pay them.
Then you have yes men paying crores as bribe to be appointed as Chairman/MD of these PSUs.

Have displaced tribals or rural poor got their due from the Govt in the past? In most cases, no.

Public or private, either way, there's loot. You just have to look the other way because if you decide to fight against this injustice, you will be branded a Maoist or a naxal. As there is some generation of taxes for the Govt., they let this continue but how much of it trickles down to the real inhabitants of the affected region?


It is only in the recent past that CIL has offered to pay a respectable sum to Jharkhand Govt.

Corporates(Govt or Private) will simply pillage the land for free, give little to nothing in return and pack off when its time to down the shutters.
 
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Maharaj samudragupt

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According to a report by GSI (in 2012) 57% of the gold reserves of India are in just 3 districts of Bihar , Gaya , Nalanda and Munger but these areas are naxalite prone ,
I don’t know who owns these gold mines centre or the state but People of Bihar should demand that whatever is extracted from the sacred land of Bihar will only be used by Bihar state government for upliftment of people of Bihar not by centre to make some stupid expressways or decorating some Mughal monument in Delhi
Ha haaa Haa no, bhai bihar me nai hai sona .
Aur agar hai to wo Samast desh ka hai , naki bihar .
 

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