Indian Ballistic Missile Defense System

[ezsasa]

Dont go for looks, our military is our biggest critici of domestic product. Our TEL dont look that high fi, but they are good for work assigned to them.

Let me be a cynic...

How do we know ours are good at what they do, unless we have used them in battlefield conditions?

We haven't had them in Kargil, haven't got chance to use them since then.

 

[lcafanboy]

And imagine Russians are world's number 1 military power with mere 50billion in defence budget whereas US is a number 2 power and China is number 3 power with 1 trillion and 250billion USD respectively. If I were American govt, I would thrash the lockheed martin guys for sucking me bone dry and still i am number 2 not number 1.

There is something called Purchasing Power Parity (ppp). If you use that Russian defence expenditure is not small. It does not have to pay salary in dollars to army personnel, it doesn't buy weapons from abroad and pays for weapons in Rubles. Do you know Russian Air force gets SU-35 for just $29 million, which is at par with F-15 which costs more than $115-120 million to US. Oil is virtually free for Russia. So $50 billion defence budget of Russia could be equivalent to $200 to $300 billion approx of US defence budget.

Why this doesn't work in India's case because India imports 70% of its weapons for which it has to pay in dollars so it doesn't work in India's case. But China and Russia both enjoy this advantage, here China does import a few weapons from Russia for which this doesn't work but Russia doesn't import any defence products so it works fully for Russia. China $250 billion budget would be equivalent of $500 to $600 billion US defence budget.

 

[sayareakd]

Let me be a cynic...

How do we know ours are good at what they do, unless we have used them in battlefield conditions?

We haven't had them in Kargil, haven't got chance to use them since then.

All TEL has been tested, for road mobility, i saw video of Brahmos TEL on Delhi Shimla road up to top. All drdo TEL has been made in Lab at Puna (if i am not mistaken).

 

[sthf]

@Adioz Ours are civilian trailer based TELs whom from the looks of it are strictly road based. You can't expect them to provide cover to frontline troops from Paki firecrackers (Nasr) if you can't actually get them to the frontline.

@sayareakd On the contrary, I have never seen armed forces complain about TELs.

 

[Adioz]

@Adioz Ours are civilian trailer based TELs whom from the looks of it are strictly road based. You can't expect them to provide cover to frontline troops from Paki firecrackers (Nasr) if you can't actually get them to the frontline.

@sayareakd On the contrary, I have never seen armed forces complain about TELs.

Only for road mobility? Are they tested only for highways or all roads? (If its all roads, its as good as off-road-capable as most of our city roads are full of potholes )

But I thought these TELs were built on Tatra trucks. Suspensions of Tatra trucks is good enough for of-roading right? I've even seen Stallion off-roading through the jungles (although that was a PR video by Ashok Leyland).

Is having a good suspension not enough? DO we need something more to make TELs off-road-worthy?

 

[Chinmoy]

Sir, Please clarify if I've missed understood any.

1. Ballistic Missles in these days have sep ranging from 50 mts to 10mts. If they are supposed hit targets 50 km away, the'll adjust their path in endo atmosphere through terminal guidance. This is applicable for all kinds of RVs i.e., MIRV and MaRV

2. Even a ballistic missle alters its path just to hit 50 km away target, then I am sure that it will not escape the range of PDV.

3. Lets assume, the warhead has escaped PDV and AAD is supposed to take care of it.

3a)Let's assume a city in the form of circle radius of 50km for our convenience, 4 AAD batteries on 4 corners to cover 100% of the city with max protection.

3b)Assume an IRBM is fired, PDV missed the warhead, warhead is coming at mack 10 speed, AAD to intercept this warhead at 10 km height. We need to fire multiple PDVs and AADs to destroy incoming warhead

3c) Mack 4 Ashwin AAD missile will take 21secs(20 secs, but for my convenience I've taken 21) to reach the point(which is 25 km from the AAD battery)to hit the warhead.

3d)During this 21 secs warhead(IRBM travelling at mack 10 would go 70 km, ICBM travelling at mack 25 would go175km)our IRBM warhead will travel 70 km. It means at 80km altitude, just after PDV misses its target AAD Missles should be launched.

4. My point is even if we have an AAD missle with 100 km range, there is no point because we may not use it to full range of AAD, in my view if we could use it to the full extent of 25 to 30 km that would be great.

Contradiction with your (@Scrutator) statement

1. AAD can only be used with range of 25 to 30km at max, even if AAD has more range it will not serve the purpose.

2. If warhead changes its target just by 50 km, it will be in PDV's range, and PDV's range is higer(read somewhere that it could be close to 200 km radius) and terminal guidance and re targeting a BM is no joke

Conclusion:
1. AAD is only for IRBMs not for ICBMs.
2. AAD is only at max range of 25 km.
3. For 1 warhead, we need multiple PDVs and AADs.
4. If 10 or more warheads fired at single target, atleast one will hit.

Some very logical thoughts. I would not go into length of all the points you did made here, but lets talk on your conclusions.

1: AAD is only for IRBMs not for ICBMs.:
Not only AAD, the whole of PAD system is for IRBM with a operating range of 2K. For anything more then that, India is developing second gen PAD I and AAD I.
2: AAD is only at max range of 25 km:
AAD max operating altitude is in between 30 40 km, but its max effective range is around 150 km. That's the reason why buoyant of its success, DRDO is planning to develop a SAM based on AAD.
3: For 1 warhead, we need multiple PDVs and AADs.:
That's a fact and so its called two tier system.
4: If 10 or more warheads fired at single target, atleast one will hit.
That's the basic idea behind any BMD. It can't stop 100% of the attacks, but it does raise the cost of warfare on your enemy. Previously if they were confident of hitting you with one missile, now they would have to increase the numbers manyfold and in turn would hit them economically.

@sayareakd ...... If you have seen the recent test of AAD, then it is mentioned that AAD was fired after 4 mins interval of the target missile. Now for any Solid propellant missile, this is the boost phase. Now AAD is a supersonic interceptor and does acquire a speed of Mach 4 at launch. With this speed it would achieve a altitude of 30 km and range of 100 km within 1.5 to 2 min. It means as it is a low level interception, the target was hit withing an altitude of 30km and at a much lower range. So at what stage do you think the interception happened? At the final reentry stage?

 

[Tarun Kumar]

There is something called Purchasing Power Parity (ppp). If you use that Russian defence expenditure is not small. It does not have to pay salary in dollars to army personnel, it doesn't buy weapons from abroad and pays for weapons in Rubles. Do you know Russian Air force gets SU-35 for just $29 million, which is at par with F-15 which costs more than $115-120 million to US. Oil is virtually free for Russia. So $50 billion defence budget of Russia could be equivalent to $200 to $300 billion approx of US defence budget.

Why this doesn't work in India's case because India imports 70% of its weapons for which it has to pay in dollars so it doesn't work in India's case. But China and Russia both enjoy this advantage, here China does import a few weapons from Russia for which this doesn't work but Russia doesn't import any defence products so it works fully for Russia. China $250 billion budget would be equivalent of $500 to $600 billion US defence budget.

Thats the point. We need more and more weapons to be paid in rupees. This involves not taking ages like army does in trials to deploy a weapon. By now we should have ordered LSPs of both dhanush and ATAGS.

 

[no smoking]

3: For 1 warhead, we need multiple PDVs and AADs.:
That's a fact and so its called two tier system.
4: If 10 or more warheads fired at single target, atleast one will hit.
That's the basic idea behind any BMD. It can't stop 100% of the attacks, but it does raise the cost of warfare on your enemy. Previously if they were confident of hitting you with one missile, now they would have to increase the numbers manyfold and in turn would hit them economically.

Maybe not.
For countries like China, India, Pakistan, who has less than 300 warheads, they won't really send 10 missiles or 10 warheads to hit one target. The solution will be sending 1 real warhead with 9 decoys. The new generation fake warheads look exactly like the real one on the radar, from size, trajectory, infrared feature,etc.....
These decoys are not cheap, but, still lot cheaper than the BMD missile. So, now, in order to shoot down one real warhead, you have to launch 20 missiles.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

These decoys are not cheap,

Enough reason
...............................
Argued over it very long with a Russian member.

 

[sayareakd]

Maybe not.
For countries like China, India, Pakistan, who has less than 300 warheads, they won't really send 10 missiles or 10 warheads to hit one target. The solution will be sending 1 real warhead with 9 decoys. The new generation fake warheads look exactly like the real one on the radar, from size, trajectory, infrared feature,etc.....
These decoys are not cheap, but, still lot cheaper than the BMD missile. So, now, in order to shoot down one real warhead, you have to launch 20 missiles.

No smoking please understand this if they send in any missile they should expect multiple of 10-20 in return, its not that we will use BMD and dont strike back.

So if they want to strike ideal situation should be to hit it will all they got in first attempt, they might not get second chance.

I think we too hit them with all we got to them and there supports.

 

[sayareakd]

.

@sayareakd ...... If you have seen the recent test of AAD, then it is mentioned that AAD was fired after 4 mins interval of the target missile. Now for any Solid propellant missile, this is the boost phase. Now AAD is a supersonic interceptor and does acquire a speed of Mach 4 at launch. With this speed it would achieve a altitude of 30 km and range of 100 km within 1.5 to 2 min. It means as it is a low level interception, the target was hit withing an altitude of 30km and at a much lower range. So at what stage do you think the interception happened? At the final reentry stage?

This is old graphic of AAD test.

If you look carefully you will get your answer.

Have a nice day......

 

[sthf]

@Adioz Yes Tatra or even Tata has excellent off road capabilities but civilian spec trailers they are dragging are most likely do not.

Go back to my earlier post and you will see the difference between theirs & Ours.

 

[sayareakd]

I think we too hit them with all we got to them and there supports.

Did i said there supports, who could that be ............

 

[no smoking]

No smoking please understand this if they send in any missile they should expect multiple of 10-20 in return, its not that we will use BMD and dont strike back.

So if they want to strike ideal situation should be to hit it will all they got in first attempt, they might not get second chance.

I think we too hit them with all we got to them and there supports.

We are talking about how a nuclear weapon state to handle the enemy's BMD system with limited warheads and limited funds. Why India or Pakistan fight a nuclear war and how they carry out the first strike is another discussion.

 

[sayareakd]

We are talking about how a nuclear weapon state to handle the enemy's BMD system with limited warheads and limited funds. Why India or Pakistan fight a nuclear war and how they carry out the first strike is another discussion.

Ours go hand in hand...................

If they shoot at us, we will try to stop it at the same time, reply in kind to all.

 

[sayareakd]

Old screen shot of PAD test data....... this shows how it works.

Its from Chines news video.....lol

 

[indiatester]

Old screen shot of PAD test data....... this shows how it works.

Its from Chines news video.....lol

For a moment I thought that guy was holding a gun is his hand with those trajectories projected around )

 

[sayareakd]

For a moment I thought that guy was holding a gun is his hand with those trajectories projected around )

That guy is Dr. Vijay Kumar Saraswat, that time he was DRDO Chief.

 

[sayareakd]

When asked about the AAD project, Shashi said that India has now made huge inroads with the recent success of the mission. She said the systems are fine-tuned ahead of its induction.
“Elsewhere in the world, the missiles are lighter and smarter. We are also reaching there and with all the available technologies we could recently demonstrate a hit to kill mission, becoming the third nation after the US and France,” she said.
17, the AAD interceptor destroyed incoming ballistic missile satisfying all the mission objectives. Shashi and the team are currently engaged in the design and development of a multiple–role long-range interceptor that counters a wide range of threats, carrying onboard many new technologies.

http://tarmak007.blogspot.in/2017/03/shashi-sinha-madurais-shy-girl-is-now.html

 

[Prashant12]

Anti-ballistic missile system for Indian metros soon

BHUBANESWAR: After successful trials of two homegrown interceptor missiles in a gap of 20 days at both high and low altitudes, India is now planning to deploy the anti-ballistic missile system to protect its metros from hostile aerial attacks.

A senior defence official said initially, the Government is contemplating to put the ballistic missile defence (BMD) system in place at least in New Delhi.

‘’The decision to implement the system will be taken likely this year after a couple of trials of the missiles in a coordinated manner,’’ he said.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has developed two-layered BMD systems to intercept targets at exo and endo-atmospheric (both outside and inside the atmosphere) regions. Both the systems have been test fired 13 times since 2006.

While Prithvi Defence Vehicle (PDV), capable of destroying incoming targets at high altitude, was successfully test fired for the second time on February 11, ninth test of Advanced Area Defence (AAD) interceptor missile, which can kill the enemy missile at low altitude, was a great success on March 1.

“Both the missiles have undergone a series of tests and performed as expected. Prior to PDV tests, at least two tests of Prithvi Air Defence (PAD) were conduced. These are now foolproof systems,’’ the official claimed.

After successful implementation in Delhi, the system will be deployed to cover all other major cities and vital installations in the country. The interceptors can destroy incoming ballistic missiles launched from more than 2,000 km away. The missiles will work in tandem to ensure a hit probability of 99.8 per cent.

The DRDO has two phases of the BMD systems. While the phase-I interceptors are now ready for deployment, the phase-II missiles, capable of thwarting threats from enemy missiles with ranges of 5,000 km, are expected to be ready in next couple of years.

Meanwhile, the DRDO is developing a laser-based BMD system. The new interceptor can travel at the speed of sound and kill incoming missiles in less than one minute. It will have the flexibility to be fired from both airborne and seaborne platforms.

‘’We have already test-fired exo and endo interceptors separately. Preparation is on to test the two simultaneously at different targets before their deployment. Thereafter, we will go for the test of laser-based BMD system,’’ the officer added.


http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...le-system-for-indian-metros-soon-1581441.html