Indian Army SIG Sauer 716 assault rifle.

[Tactical Doge]

@GLD1980
What kind of ammo you use?

 

[Love Charger]

I don't doubt them but isn't ar better at cqb if there is one

 

[Love Charger]

@GLD1980
What kind of ammo you use?

You better hope he replies to you, he barely visits here you see.
We have a American gun user among us, who is also a military veteran, now that's a good thing . Aint it , Doge?

 

[GLD1980]

Don't you think a battle rifle as standard weapon will be a bit too much we need an assualt rifle as standard weapon just my thought

Don't get spun up in the size of the bullet, or the extra few pounds of weight, you can make the AR-10 type rifle as small as the AR-15 too. Most standard assault rifles are still 14.5"-16" for the same reason the 716I is 16".... If
you go any shorter, ballistically it isn't going to be worth a damn because It won't hit hard or go far, and that's regardless of the caliber TBH for this discussion.

In regards to the weight, my best advice is get stronger. On my first tour which was to Africa, I was in the bush and I saw young boys (7-8yrs old) walk several miles to the local well to gather 2x5 gallon water jugs hanging on a log and carried upon their backs. They would walk barefoot back to their village sometimes 5 miles, maybe 10, maybe even further but they did it. To account for log and containers let's just round up to 85lbs or 38.55kg. My point is if that little skinny malnourished kid could hack that much weight so could you!

 

[Immanuel]

Gentlemen, is there any truth to any of this?
Is the Indian Army experiencing teething issues with the SIG716I?

Is the 2nd order possibly falling through?

How have you all been?

I got to take my SIG716I and my 716G2 Patrol out for more breaking in.
View attachment 167798

View attachment 167799

Remain tough and always Remember the 5th Principle of Patrolling; Common Sense! Stay Alert, Stay Alive Men!

The 5 Principles of Patrolling
1. Planning
2. Reconnaissance
3. Security
4. Control
5. Common Sense

Notice how they get more important has you scroll down.... Kinda like you could fuck up 123, but with 4 and 5, you still have a chance.

Forget 1,2,3, and 4; That's called luck and your butthole will definitely pucker and you'll either earn a medal or lose a limb if you live !

Forget 1,2,3,4 & 5....! And your Dead, dont be stupid fellas.

Oh and last but not least, always take the shot, Our creator doesn't give you many chances to kill the same man! Make every chance count.

Nice rifle by the way, what other weapons do you have in your arsenal. I always enjoy traveling to the US and each trip I look forward to visiting gun ranges. Last time around, I had the pleasure to fire the FN Scar-H and S&W MP-15 5.56 AR as well as the FNX .45 ACP pistol at Barracks 616 gun range in Michigan. Where do you live? Which unit were you in sir? Nice to have you here

 

[GLD1980]

@Tactical Doge

Australian Defense Industry (ADI) 7.62x51 F4 Ball 145gr.
Australian Defense Industry 168gr Tipped Sierra Match Kings .308 TMK's
Lake City 7.62x51 M80 Ball 149gr
FEDERAL GMM 168gr SMK .308
ADI 150gr. Swift Scirocco .308
ADI 165gr Sierra GameKings
Hornady 155gr AMAX .308
https://youtube.com/shorts/AKt6OFCm4sw?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/kGHWGc4xgyk?feature=share

 

[Love Charger]

Sir , did you use indian made ammo ?
We have heard that large quantity was supplied to usa civilian market , the calibre was 5.56 45 .

@Tactical Doge

Australian Defense Industry (ADI) 7.62x51 F4 Ball 145gr.
Australian Defense Industry 168gr Tipped Sierra Match Kings .308 TMK's
Lake City 7.62x51 M80 Ball 149gr
FEDERAL GMM 168gr SMK .308
ADI 150gr. Swift Scirocco .308
ADI 165gr Sierra GameKings
Hornady 155gr AMAX .308
https://youtube.com/shorts/AKt6OFCm4sw?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/kGHWGc4xgyk?feature=share

 

[Marliii]

@GLD1980 the whole report of sig having issues was a massive hitjob by a media publication that has a known history of doing stuff like it.

 

[GLD1980]

@Love Charger
I haven't shot Indian Ammo yet but I don't mind trying. What do you recommend?

 

[Immanuel]

@Love Charger
I haven't shot Indian Ammo yet but I don't mind trying. What do you recommend?

Ordanace Factory Board (OFB) (M-193) 5.56*45mm ball ammo

 

[Love Charger]

@Love Charger
I haven't shot Indian Ammo yet but I don't mind trying. What do you recommend?

This thing sir

 

[Love Charger]

View attachment 167821View attachment 167822
This thing sir

These are made in India

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[WolfPack86]

India is not cancelling 73,000 Sig-716 order | The deal is in final stage

 

[WolfPack86]

Why 1.4 Lakh SIG716 Gun over SSS Defense P72

 

[Lonewarrior]

Why 1.4 Lakh SIG716 Gun over SSS Defense P72

When 7.62x39mm and say ummmnn...7.62x40mm WilTac and 7.62x45mm and 7.62x51mm NATO and perhaps 7.62x53mmR and maybe 7.62x54mmR are all 7.62mm for you...

...but you still want to be called a defence AnalYst

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Looks like some sort of jugaadu is being done to make a provision to mount the ARDE UBGL on the Sig 716.
View attachment 170769

 

[WolfPack86]

ARMY IN ARUNACHAL PRADESH GETS MODERN SIG-716 RIFLE
The SIG-716 features an improved gas system, lightweight handguard, and an overall weight reduction of more than two pounds and weighs 3.9 kg. There is focus on surveillance and reconnaissance: official


Latest Sig Sauer rifles, Negev Light Machine Guns (LMG), Carl Gustaf-Mk-3 84 mm rocket launchers, digital spotter scopes, fuel cell chargers for patrols, all-terrain vehicles and satellite terminals are some of the new inductions for the infantry soldiers in the Rest of Arunachal Pradesh (RALP), beyond the Tawang sector, in Arunachal Pradesh. This along with helipads at forward posts, M777 Ultra-Light Howitzers backed by Chinook heavy lift helicopters are part of the overall capability enhancement in the region.

“There is big focus on capability development. In the infantry battalions lot of new inductions are happening. Apart from this, there is focus on surveillance and reconnaissance,” said Brig. T.M. Sinha who is commanding a Brigade in RALP. Next is infrastructure development, both in hinterland and border areas, he added.

Another major push is on helipads being constructed at forward areas along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in RALP, officials on the ground said. These are coming up with specifications that they can take the biggest helicopters, the CH-47F(I) Chinook heavy-lift helicopters which gives significant advantage, one officer noted.

These developments come in the backdrop of massive Chinese upgradation across the LAC, which also has significant advantage with respect to India in RALP. Acknowledging this, a senior officer posted in the area said the pace of Chinese modernisation was very fast and India was also pushing and catching up.

2019 Deal

The Army has procured 72,400 SIG-716 assault rifles from Sig Saur of the U.S. under a deal signed in February 2019 and they have since been inducted with frontline infantry soldiers deployed in operational areas. The SIG-716 weighing 3.82 kgs, has an effective range of 600m and employs the heavier calibre 7.62 mm ammunition.

Army contracted 16,497 Negev Light Machine Guns (LMG) from Israel in March 2020 under fast-track procurement and they have since been inducted on the Line of Control (LoC). They started coming in in RALP early this year, according to officials on the ground.

On the fuel cell-based chargers, one officer who did not wish to be identified said they were very useful. “We can take it for long range patrols and are less weight, less maintenance and more durable.” Long range patrols on foot in the tough terrain vary from two weeks to a month.

Indigenous UAVs

Another significant aspect is induction of indigenous unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) that has given big boost to the forward troops and we can see across the LAC in depth day and night, the officer cited above said.

In terms of mobility, all-terrain vehicles procured from the U.S. have been deployed in Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh. Material lifting cranes are now available in all units which were earlier with the Engineering teams and has significantly eased handling of heavy loads, the officer added talking of the across the board upgradation underway in infantry battalions.

In terms of fire power, a major addition is the induction of M777 ULH which have a range of over 30 km and weighing just 4.2 tonnes allows them to be transported by Chinook and Mi-26 heavy-lift helicopters. Apart from lethality, it has flexibility in employment as it can be moved by air, another officer said.

Two regiments of the M777 have been deployed in the RALP and they have already been deployed in the Tawang area.

Apart from capability development, the other focus is on infrastructure development. In forward areas for connectivity from the major roads to the forward posts, the Army’s engineering task forces are being employed.

Communication Network

With significant enhancement and also induction of technology, the communication network is in the process of being upgraded as part of an overall project being taken up across the country.

All forward posts are being linked up with optical fibre cable lines so that big data communications are taken care of and satellite terminals are also coming up, another official in the loop explained. As part of this, new radio sets are also being inducted, including some Software Defined Radios. “The focus is to build redundancy in the communications,” the officer added.

The Tawang sector has already seen significant upgradation of defences as well addition of offensive fire power in recent year by India to match the Chinese build-up. China claims Arunachal Pradesh as south Tibet.

Army In Arunachal Pradesh Gets Modern SIG-716 Rifle

SIG Sauer SIG-716 semi-automatic rifle manufactured by SIG Sauer of the United States The SIG-716 features an improved gas system, lightweig...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Army to take 72k rifles from Indian firms that were supposed to be bought from American firm Sig Sauer
After the scrapping of second order for 72,000 Sig-716 rifles from the American firm Sig Sauer, Officials have said that the planned orders for the rifles are now going to be given to the Indian Private Arms manufacturer who have made significant developments in this field.

For example, the Indo-Israeli Joint Venture PLR systems has already started manufacturing all the variants of the Galil rifle and is currently being evaluated by the Indian Army.

Another firm SSS Defense has also presented its new 7.62 millimeters by 39 caliber rifle Ak type Assault Rifle to the Indian Army at the recently held North Tech Symposium 2022. SSS Defence has earlier revealed their P-72 family of Assault Rifles, Carbines and two Sniper rifle variants named Viper and Saber.

Indian Army to take 72k rifles from Indian firms that were supposed to be bought from American firm Sig Sauer

Indian Army to take 72k rifles from Indian firms that were supposed to be bought from American firm Sig Sauer

www.theigmp.org

 

[WolfPack86]

Defense Ministry Decides Not To Reorder American SIG716 Assault Rifles
Due to various ‘snags’ that had surfaced with earlier imports of an equal number of similar weapon systems a year before, India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) has decided against signing the Rs 700-crore repeat order it approved in late 2020 for 72,400 ‘Patrol’ Sig Sauer assault rifles from the US for its military.

Following several “operational glitches” that surfaced soon after they were issued to Indian Army units deployed along the Line of Control in Kashmir and on counter-insurgency operations in the region from December 2019 onwards, official sources told The Wire that the supplementary procurement of SIG716 7.6251 mm rifles had been abandoned.

The army received 66,400 SIG716 rifles, the Indian Air Force (IAF) received 4,000, and the Indian Navy’s Garud Special Forces received the remaining 2,000 weapon systems.

According to industry officials, the SIG716 rifles had “operational flaws” such as “jamming” while shooting locally produced 7.62 mm cartridges, which were not as effective as imported ammunition, which had been procured in limited quantities but had since been consumed.

When shot, these indigenous ammunition are said to have caused “barrel bulges” in several guns, rendering them useless. These bulges developed after a cartridge failed to exit the rifle after shooting, allowing the subsequent round to build up immense pressure due to the confined air inside the barrel, causing it to bulge, shatter, or even explode entirely.

In comparison to Russian Kalashnikov AK-47 variations or the indigenously manufactured Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) 5.5645 mm assault rifles that Indian Army forces had used for decades, the native ammunition created more recoil or kickback in the weapons.

Burst-mode firing allowed the shooter to fire a predetermined number of rounds – usually two or three – at a target with a single pull of the trigger on a semi-automatic handgun like the SIG716, for example.

Additionally, local changes to the SIG76 rifles were reportedly required, such as changing the grip to provide a tighter grip by putting a ‘wooden handle’ under the 457.2 m long barrel, similar to the innovation the army had previously implemented on AK-47s.

According to recent media reports, certain army units have modified SIG716s with these ‘grips,’ as well as bipods, to provide the rifle more stability against canting. The trajectory of the bullet can be affected by a ‘cant mistake.’

Above all, the rifles lacked optical day, night, holographic, and even basic LED-powered reflex’red-dot’ sights, as the MoD had decided against acquiring these critical auxiliary add-ons, which are essential for precisely aligning targets in conflict zones at ranges ranging from 100m to 700m, based on IA advice.

In skirmish regions, for example, the latter battery-operated sight provides users with a ‘point of aim’ in the shape of an illuminated red dot, a phenomena often seen in action movies; their absence rendered the user fully or partially blind.

Furthermore, without any of these sights to establish a virtual image of the desired target, the shooter was forced to close one eye to make his target, robbing him of vital peripheral vision that may mean the difference between life and death on the battlefield.

The day and night sights, on the other hand, were more advanced and, depending on their magnifications and sophistication, more expensive to import, costing upwards of Rs 50,000 each, for which the MoD had obviated their procurement. It had previously reasoned that indigenous replacements were less expensive.

Several local manufacturers have displayed several sights for eventual attachment onto the SIG716s at the Army War College in Mhow, Madhya Pradesh, in recent months, some of which were under examination and awaited shortlisting to make the rifles operationally more effective.

The IA and the MoD declined to comment on the SIG716s, but many in the military were dissatisfied with the import.

“It is outrageous that a new weapon system acquired at significant cost required to be locally modified before being fully deployed,” a senior IA officer remarked, “because these purchases were processed by an empowered MoD committee headed by a senior military officer.”

It exposed not only errors in the army’s qualitative requirement (QR) formulations for the rifle, but also in the MoD’s entire acquisition procedures, he said, declining to be identified because of the sensitivity of the subject.

The worst aspect, according to another procurement officer, is that no one will ever be held accountable for the blunder. “Acquisitions through MoD empowered committees tended to short-circuit established procedures, resulting in procurement flaws that, in turn, harmed operational efficiency,” he said, asking anonymity.

Over the years, successive parliamentary defence committees and oversight groups such as the Comptroller and Auditor General have chastised the IA’s QR gaffes, leading in a slew of purchases being cancelled or committed, like spacecraft, to indefinite motion, jeopardising force modernization.

For example, in early 2012, Parliament’s Standing Defence on Defence revealed that 41 of the army’s tenders for various equipment had been withdrawn or discontinued in the previous 18 months, primarily due to ‘over ambitious’ QRs.

To emphasise this point, Manohar Parrikar, the late Indian defence minister, said in 2015 at a public occasion in New Delhi that some of the Indian military’s QRs were straight out of “Marvel comic books” and thus unrealistic.

Former defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman approved the purchase of the Sig Sauer gun in late January 2019, after the US company’s proposal was the lowest of three competing suppliers for the deal. Sig Sauer had bid $ 990 each SIG716—each weighing 4.2 kg with a range of roughly 600 metres and a magazine capacity of 20 rounds—while rival Abu Dhabi’s Caracal International had priced its CAR817 rifle at $1,200 per piece, and Israel Weapon Industries had bid $1600 per ACE1 model.

The SIG716s were provided within the specified term of 12 months, in compliance with FTP regulations, under which the tender was concluded.The procurement of an additional 72,400 SIG 716s was approved by the Ministry of Defense in late September 2020.

The SIG716s were designed to be a “stop gap” replacement for the INSAS 5.56x45mm rifles that entered IA service in the mid-1990s, but were deemed “operationally deficient” by the agency in early 2010 for a variety of reasons.

During the time between the first SIG716 consignment purchase and the first SIG716 consignment purchase, the MoD and the IA wasted nearly five years chasing a contract for 66,000 multi-calibre assault rifles, which again fell victim to the force’s QR overreach.

Incredibly, the IA’s Infantry Directorate required them to shift from 5.56x45mm to 7.62x51mm by just replacing their barrel and magazine in their submission for the projected multi-calibre assault weapons. The tender was cancelled in 2015 when all four competing providers were unable to meet the IA’s QRs.

Following that, the MoD tried the ‘Atmanirbhar’ or indigenous route to meet its rifle needs, but the IA rejected the Excalibur 5.56x45mm rifle, which was little more than an upgrade of the INSAS model developed locally by the then state-owned Ordnance Factory Board, leaving the MoD with no choice but to rely on imports.

After addressing several problems ailing the tender since 2019, the MoD sealed a Rs 5,124 crore deal with Russia to license-build 6,71,000 Kalashnikov AK-203 assault weapons at Korwa near Amethi in Uttar Pradesh, mostly for the IA, but also for the IAF, IN, and paramilitaries.

The contract involved the direct import of 20,000 AK-203 rifles with collapsible stocks from Russia for the IA for $1100 each, as part of a bilateral Inter-Governmental Agreement.

However, the Ak-203 contract, which was supposed to start production in March 2022, is still in jeopardy, thanks to US-led sanctions placed on Russia for its invasion of Ukraine two months agfficial sources believe the agreement will be postponed indefinitely, if not completely abandoned.

In a separate step, the Ministry of Defence added assault weapons to a list of 310 military products that India will no longer import and instead obtain domestically.

As a result, it granted licences to five local defence contractors, including Adani Defence (Ahmedabad), SSS Defence (Bangalore), Jindal Defence (Delhi), and Optic Electronic India (Noida), to produce assault rifles through joint ventures with overseas original equipment manufacturers, effectively halting all Sig Sauer imports. ENDS

Defense Ministry Decides Not To Reorder American SIG716 Assault Rifles

India's Ministry of Defence (MoD) has decided against signing the Rs 700-crore repeat order of SIG Sauer assault rifles from the US.

defenceaviationpost.com

India cancels repeat order for 72,400 US assault rifles due to operational problems
The Defence Ministry has cancelled repeat order for purchase of 72,400 ‘Patrol’ Sig Sauer assault rifles from the US for its Armed Forces. Now, the government will look to purchase similar rifles through ‘Make in India’ initiative which is being promoted to give boost to domestic defence industries, said Ministry sources.

India cancels repeat order for 72,400 US assault rifles due to operational problems

New Delhi, May 5

www.thehindubusinessline.com