Indian army gun Sight

What should be general issue Infantry rifle optics? i


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Kunal Biswas

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Purchase in mass will reduce cost latter US company can open there store here, for example Aim-point have a store in Nepal..

IMHO Price would not be permissible except for SF. MoD cannot allocate:

Reflex/Red Dot for general Infantry @ $100-500 each :sad:
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Yes, that is indeed..

But what i said that Iron Sight are primary sight as it is taught in training ( USMC/ US army / UK etc ) and men practice with Iron sight first then optics..

In India its same, Men practice on INSAS latter use optic with Insas, though optics is not for every one..

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What ever sight you saw in J&K, Its from there own pockets so does the mounts..

@Kunal Biswas this isn't true sir. Most modern/Western armies have red dot/reflex sights as standard on their standard issue rifles now for their entire infantry. Look at the US,Germans and UK for example.

+ IIRC the RR had a tender for Red Dot sights for their AKs- I've seen a few pics of such in service with RR but looking at pics in JK it doesn't look as though RDS are standard for RR yet.
 
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arnabmit

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Purchase in mass will reduce cost latter US company can open there store here, for example Aim-point have a store in Nepal..
IA can purchase without the need of MoD approval stuff worth $150mil (per year?)

For half that amount 75,000 units of red dot reflex sights could be acquired.

OT, but with the rest of the amount 50,000 type IV light-weight ballistic plates could be acquired for existing BJs...
 

abingdonboy

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Purchase in mass will reduce cost latter US company can open there store here, for example Aim-point have a store in Nepal..



===============================================

Yes, that is indeed..

But what i said that Iron Sight are primary sight as it is taught in training ( USMC/ US army / UK etc ) and men practice with Iron sight first then optics..

In India its same, Men practice on INSAS latter use optic with Insas, though optics is not for every one..

========================

What ever sight you saw in J&K, Its from there own pockets so does the mounts..
It is possible the sights were purchased out of their own pockets but given this was an entire unit armed with RDS I assume it was an offical deployment.
 

Kunal Biswas

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There are many other important things than reflex / Optics when you bring that amount into play..

If we get new Rifle with P-RAIL on it, Most can purchase there own sight for there own Rifles ( With permission )

IA can purchase without the need of MoD approval stuff worth $150mil (per year?).
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Yes, but i have not seen or heard of any such in IA except PARA SF..

If you are talking about that Zess red dot sight ? Yes it was given for test purpose and Successful but have issues with numbers..

entire unit armed with RDS I assume it was an offical deployment.
 

abingdonboy

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There are many other important things than reflex / Optics when you bring that amount into play..

If we get new Rifle with P-RAIL on it, Most can purchase there own sight for there own Rifles ( With permission )



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Yes, but i have not seen or heard of any such in IA except PARA SF..

If you are talking about that Zess red dot sight ? Yes it was given for test purpose and Successful but have issues with numbers..
Sir I could post the vid (if I can find it) so you can pass judgement.
 

abingdonboy

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IA can purchase without the need of MoD approval stuff worth $150mil (per year?)

For half that amount 75,000 units of red dot reflex sights could be acquired.

OT, but with the rest of the amount 50,000 type IV light-weight ballistic plates could be acquired for existing BJs...
When you are talking about an army of 1.3 million (granted not all are infantry) then even using the entire 150mil won't make a dent in the IA. The numbers are so vast the IA has to go for an open tender wherein EoS give a lower unit price for bulk orders. But naturally this process takes time and I don't think the IA has anything like this on the books right now as they are expecting to get their next-gen Assualt Rifles with RDS straight out of the box.
 

kshkumsin

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Actually we should discuss which should be best sight for our need. keeping in mind that should suit our situation and it should not incurred unnecessary in training and expensive sights which soldiers put it back on, because they fear that if it broke then they have to pay it out of their own pocket.
thats e+xactly what i said but anyone can tell me how to edit this thread
 

kshkumsin

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When you are talking about an army of 1.3 million (granted not all are infantry) then even using the entire 150mil won't make a dent in the IA. The numbers are so vast the IA has to go for an open tender wherein EoS give a lower unit price for bulk orders. But naturally this process takes time and I don't think the IA has anything like this on the books right now as they are expecting to get their next-gen Assualt Rifles with RDS straight out of the box.
well sir we can't stick to iron sights for long because other infantries are having magnifying scopes and this will surely reduce the reach of an infantryman as compared to other armies.
 

kshkumsin

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look at the straight diffrence in effectiveness when a gun is with a sight and without sight
 

kshkumsin

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any recommendations for F-INSAS.
well i will give my idea of best marksmen rifle and scope

THE HK 417
 

sayareakd

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IMHO, For Soldiers the best thing could be a Small Reflex / red dot sight..





Its a small size, Open red dot sight that need no Batt to run and almost maintenance free & Most importantly it can be used with Iron sight on..

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One thing i found with closed red dot / reflex sight that you have to look into the tube to see the dot hence slow reaction but with open its fast..

The only draw back of open sight is that its small glass have no mesh protection, unless there is that i dont know..


I feel that this reflex sight can survive harsh treatments ..

Trijicon RMR™

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Comments, Sir..
Sir i had detail chat with Trijicon guys, Trijicon is best in the business, they too want to sell their sight in India. Problem is cost, they said if the numbers are very very good (bulk sale) they can reduce the price up to $500 for smallest sight. When asked about INSAS Rail they said that their guys are working on it so that their sight can but put on INSAS. They further said that NSG is has tested their sight and we saw pic that they started using it.

But the problem is that you cant use their top end sight which cost 1800 USD for rifle that cost less then 500 USD. Even the X95 sight is costly and so is sight for Tavor it is just below Trijicon. Good part is that GOI has now supplied rifles with advance red dot sight to our soldiers.

BTW for records, CISF has got red dot sights in numbers. At least that is what i can see everyday.
 
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kshkumsin

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even terrorists have learned that placing a cheap scope on guns increase their effectiveness
 

sayareakd

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For army of our size if you want to provide better system, then home made sight is most approprate. Too bad no one make red dot sight here only one guy made holographic sight but on one purchased from him.

Cost of the sight too will be important if you want to induct in number. IMHO 15000 is good price provided you get three year guarantee for it so that solders are comfortable using it. No point in soldiers keep them in boxes.
 

kshkumsin

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For army of our size if you want to provide better system, then home made sight is most approprate. Too bad no one make red dot sight here only one guy made holographic sight but on one purchased from him.

Cost of the sight too will be important if you want to induct in number. IMHO 15000 is good price provided you get three year guarantee for it so that solders are comfortable using it. No point in soldiers keep them in boxes.
well TATA SED could easily accomplish this as it has accomplished many porjets including one of Night vision devices
NEW DELHI, India, March 29, 2012 – ITT Exelis (NYSE: XLS) and Tata Advanced Systems Limited have formed a strategic alliance to support Generation (Gen) 3 night vision requirements in India.

Under a memorandum of understanding, Exelis and Tata Advanced Systems will partner to supply manufacturing capabilities in India, maintenance and life-cycle support for Gen 3 night vision products. To start with, Exelis will provide TASL with the latest Gen 3 night vision image intensifier tubes, kits and other materials required to build night vision devices in India, to expedite the delivery of the systems to customers in India. This will be followed by manufacture of high precision components and sub-assemblies of the devices by Tata Advanced Systems.

"This is an important alliance for Exelis and Tata Advanced Systems. It allows us to increase our international footprint and provides our allies with the superior products they need to be successful during night missions," said Nick Bobay, vice president and general manager of the night vision business area at ITT Exelis. "We look forward to a strong and healthy partnership with Tata Advanced Systems to meet the growing needs of Indian customers."

"The alliance with Exelis is an important step in Tata Advanced Systems strategy to enhance the capabilities of the Indian Armed Forces by bringing to India cutting edge technology and undertaking their manufacturing in India. We are tremendously excited by the potential of the partnership with Exelis" said Vijay Malik, General Manager (Defence and Security) at TASL. "Tata Advanced Systems has set up world class production facilities in collaboration with some of the largest global technology companies to build capability in India, and we aim to replicate the same with Exelis to provide cutting edge night vision solutions to our Defence, Paramilitary and Police forces in the coming years."

The signing ceremony took place on Thursday, March 29 at Defexpo 2012 in Pragati Maidan, New Delhi, India.



About ITT Exelis:

ITT Exelis is a diversified, top-tier global aerospace, defense and information solutions company with strong positions in enduring and emerging global markets. Exelis is a leader in networked communications, sensing and surveillance, electronic warfare, navigation, air traffic solutions and information systems with growing positions in cyber security, composite aerostructures, logistics and technical services. The company has a 50-year legacy of innovation and technology expertise, partnering with customers worldwide to deliver affordable, mission-critical products and services for managing global threats, conflicts and complexities. Headquartered in McLean, Va., the company employs about 20,500 people and generated 2011 sales of $5.8 billion. ITT Exelis - The Power of Ingenuity



About Tata Advanced Systems and Tata Group:

Tata Advanced Systems Limited, a fully owned subsidiary of TATA Sons, is engaged in addressing the business areas of Defence, Aerospace, Aero-structures and Homeland Security. TASL is both a holding and an operating company. The company is in the process of establishing critical manufacturing capabilities through strategic alliances and collaborations with global technology majors in areas that include RF Systems and ICT Networks, Maritime Systems, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles, Aerospace and Aero-structures, Night Vision Devices and Homeland Security. TASL employs around 1000 personnel and has set up more than half a million square feet of manufacturing facilities in New Delhi, Hyderabad and Bangalore. The Company has formed partnerships and joint ventures with companies that include Lockheed Martin and Sikorsky. The company delivers best in class products/ systems and solutions and also ensures life time commitment in the best traditions of the TATA Group. TATA ADVANCED SYSTEMS

The Tata Group comprises over 100 operating companies in seven business sectors: communications and information technology, engineering, materials, services, energy, consumer products and chemicals. The Group has operations in more than 80 countries across six continents, and its companies export products and services to 85 countries. The total revenue of Tata companies, taken together, was $83.3 billion (around Rs3,796.75 billion) in 2010-11, with 58 per cent of this coming from business outside India. Tata companies employ over 425,000 people worldwide. The Tata name has been respected in India for more than 140 years for its adherence to strong values and business ethics. Every Tata company or enterprise operates independently. Each of these companies has its own board of directors and shareholders, to whom it is answerable. There are 31 publicly listed Tata enterprises and they have a combined market capitalisation of about $88.12 billion (as on March 23, 2012), and a shareholder base of 3.6 million. The major Tata companies are Tata Steel, Tata Motors, Tata Consultancy Services (TCS), Tata Power, Tata Chemicals, Tata Global Beverages, Tata Teleservices, Titan, Tata Communications and Indian Hotels.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Sir, I have seen the vid but they haven't showed the Sight..

OFB made 3 reflex Sights but none are yet in Army..

For army of our size if you want to provide better system, then home made sight is most approprate. Too bad no one make red dot sight here only one guy made holographic sight but on one purchased from him.

Cost of the sight too will be important if you want to induct in number. IMHO 15000 is good price provided you get three year guarantee for it so that solders are comfortable using it. No point in soldiers keep them in boxes.
 

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