Indian Army Aviation Wing

[black eagle]

I presume 2, As IA operate almost every Aircraft with crew of two..

I don't think IA will be allowed to operate fixed wing aircrafts. Even if the sitaras are weaponized they will be used by the IAF for close air support.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I don't think IA will be allowed to operate fixed wing aircrafts. Even if the sitaras are weaponized they will be used by the IAF for close air support.

Sitara is a trainer for IAF weapon training mainly..

It depends on IA & MOD, IAF have no reason to interfere as they too like the Idea..

Btw, Did u have any success finding the old article abt MOD`s / IAF protest against IA aviation build-up, If not then whats the source name and date of publication ?

 

[black eagle]

Sitara is a trainer for IAF weapon training mainly..

It depends on IA & MOD, IAF have no reason to interfere as they too like the Idea..

Btw, Did u have any success finding the old article abt MOD`s / IAF protest against IA aviation build-up, If not then whats the source name and date of publication ?

I still clearly remember that i read it in a newspaper a few years back. But i am yet to find it on the net.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I still clearly remember that i read it in a newspaper a few years back. But i am yet to find it on the net.

News papers publish lots of things..

IAF was oppose to IA air-wing back in 70s, During Srilanka its IAF said IA should have fixed wings, During Kargil and After IA felt again for such needs...

Anyways Lets hope for best..

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

the need of cas aircraft under the army was most felt during the kargil ops.iaf may have some objection but the army needs weaponised hjt-36 sitara badly in adequate no.s to supplement the lch,ucav in anti armour role.but i don't think that army needs a transport fleet of indo-russian mta,the iaf could operate them more efficiently.the army doesn't have sufficient ground infrastructure to handle such big aircrafts.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

the need of cas aircraft under the army was most felt during the kargil ops.iaf may have some objection but the army needs weaponised hjt-36 sitara badly in adequate no.s to supplement the lch,ucav in anti armour role.but i don't think that army needs a transport fleet of indo-russian mta,the iaf could operate them more efficiently.the army doesn't have sufficient ground infrastructure to handle such big aircrafts.

I should clear this fact abt Kargil, That IAF had to operate all major operation from a single base only After 2 month from first skirmish with Pakistani troopers and terrorists , It consist of Reconnaissance, Fighter escorts, Combat air patrols, CAS, Transports also Helo operations, The Srinagar Airfield was too much packed off, that airfield was operating almost all kind of Aircrafts, It was a Mess, Providing CAS for troops was too difficult for IAF, Men have to wait for 48hours to 72 hours for a single bombing..

If Army had a Single squadron of CAS fighters we could have recon and bomb the enemy months before IAF arrival, Any Armed version of IJT or AJT could have been helpful..

Many ask question Why IA need its own small Air-force, The simple answer is long chain of command, A order getting sanctioned takes Hours to days..
Where a Field commander loses men and machine also the ground..






Regarding Transport, I am confused why not go for C-130J / C-27 even AN-32s?, Army could have gone for MI-26T2 too..
MTA is not a very good decision..

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

A very good point Kunal bhai. The IA should have some atleast some formidable and a small AIR-FORCE of its own for small combat operations which will help in saving lives.
The need for air support or IAF must be requested and then the IAF would respond to the request and this takes a long time as the message should be taken the higher officers who are in-charge and then a decission has to be taken on how many planes or fighters should be sent. It is a long process and by the time the IAF reach IA would have lost atlesat a dozen of its soldiers.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Self delete.........

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Army Present GunShip!!

 

[pmaitra]

^^ Thanks for uploading these pictures Kunal.

Gunship it is indeed. I'd call it the bare-basic gunship. Anything less than that, it ceases to be one.

I wonder if these are indeed meant to be used in a real war.

 

[Atul]

nice photos, but one can see its fuel tank?? how safe is that..
God knows why the army is settling for this... (that is why probably the recent pre-bid, tests are going on with the AH & MI for 22 no's ..... let hope any one is selected that too soon...

 

[pmaitra]

I think this is the Indian counterpart (HAL Cheetah) of the US AH-6J 'Little Bird'. Probably useful for SOP, but, IMHO, not something I'd want to be in during war.

Aérospatiale Alouette II

AH-6J 'Little Bird'

Does its armour even protect it from PK machinegun fire, if that glass bubble can at all be called armour? (disambiguation: I am referring to Aérospatiale Alouette II licensed clone HAL Cheetah)

 

[black eagle]

Sitara is a trainer for IAF weapon training mainly..

It depends on IA & MOD, IAF have no reason to interfere as they too like the Idea..

Btw, Did u have any success finding the old article abt MOD`s / IAF protest against IA aviation build-up, If not then whats the source name and date of publication ?

Forget the old news reports. This is a latest one. Have a look..

Army cash to raise air force

New Delhi, Feb. 28: The army has been given funds to raise a mini air force and the air force has been given cash for at least two multi-billion-dollar contracts in the defence allocation that finance minister Pranab Mukherjee has hiked by 11 per cent over last year's budgetary estimates.

The total allocation for defence, at Rs 1,64,415 crore is more than twice the allocation for education and health put together.

Mukherjee rewarded the defence ministry for the first time in five years for better housekeeping after it exhausted the capital expenditure allocated for new acquisitions. He has hiked the capital allocation by nearly Rs 9,200 crore for 2011-2012 to Rs 69,199 crore.

"We welcome the budget. Our concerns have by and large been addressed. The finance minister has said that should there be any fresh requests, it would be met without any difficulties," defence minister A.K. Antony said, raising the possibility that there could be a supplementary demand for grants.

A stand-out figure in the budget for the armed forces is in the allocation under the head "aircraft and aero-engines" for the army. The allocation has been hiked by more than three times over the budget estimates — from Rs 636.80 crore to Rs 2,291.60 crore.

This could lead to inter-service rivalry between the army and the air force. The army argues that it is building an air component that is integral to its operational plans. The air force argues that it already has dedicated aircraft for the army's battle plans.

"I don't quite understand why the army should get a full-spectrum air force," says Air Commodore (retired) Jagjit Singh, who heads the think-tank Centre for Air Power Studies (CAPS).

Defence analyst Commodore Uday Bhaskar says that these funds could scarcely be used to build a mini-air force, that would involve the acquisition of fixed-wing aircraft.

The army is in the process of acquiring attack and utility helicopters. The US-made Apache Longbow and the Russian-origin Mil are competing to sell attack helicopters to the army that is also preparing to expand its airlift capability. Part of the reason for this is the requirement projected for internal security duties.

The air force's allocation under the same head has been hiked by about Rs 7,000 crore to Rs 22,055.61 crore. This is estimated to be providing for the initial payments for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft, the order for which could top $12 billion, and 10 C-17 Globemaster III aircraft that could cost $ 4.1 billion.

"This is not really a big deal," says Air Commodore Singh. "If you account for the fact that a single fighter aircraft today can cost more than Rs 350 crore, this really isn't enough for a modern air force. But it is still better that what it used to be."

A slightly more cynical view came from another air force officer who said the army was being too acquisitive. "If you have too many generals, you will want to buy more helicopters, since generals like to fly," he commented wryly.

Bhaskar said the good-housekeeping of 2010-2011, that has resulted in the defence ministry overshooting the capital allocations, should mark the beginning of a sustained process. "We are dealing with block obsolescence of a decade-plus, right from the time of the NDA government through to UPA I and UPA II." He reckons that in the past decade the defence ministry has returned unspent funds of over Rs 25,000 crore.

He says that the defence allocations have to be developed to enhance cross-border military capabilities because there is a potential for an adversarial relationship with Pakistan and China.

"It is only when we have a positive TBMI (Trans-border Military Index) that an independent foreign policy can be pursued," Bhaskar says.

Of the total Rs 1.64,415 crore for defence, Rs 95,216 crore is meant for revenue expenditure — salaries, pensions and maintenance.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110301/jsp/nation/story_13651129.jsp

So the notion that IAF is in agreement & cool with the idea of IA using fixed wing crafts is entirely out of the question now. IA might eventually get its wish fulfilled & it might get its own 'air force' but it would definitely piss the IAF off.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I wonder if these are indeed meant to be used in a real war.

Does its armour even protect it from PK machinegun fire, if that glass bubble can at all be called armour? (disambiguation: I am referring to Aérospatiale Alouette II licensed clone HAL Cheetah)


how safe is that..
God knows why the army is settling for this... (that is why probably the recent pre-bid, tests are going on with the AH & MI for 22 no's ....

The helicopter is specifically designed for counter-insurgency duties (for use over mountains and thick jungles), police patrolling, para-military surveillance duties and against light armour.

Well It can save u from regular AK round but a hit on turbine or the important places like tail roter, Its survival chance are less..

7.62nato or Russian rounds can damage it..

It Simple Shows IA`s need for a Gunship..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Forget the old news reports. This is a latest one. Have a look..

So the notion that IAF is in agreement & cool with the idea of IA using fixed wing crafts is entirely out of the question now. IA might eventually get its wish fulfilled & it might get its own 'air force' but it would definitely piss the IAF off.

U have to read that (retired) is questioning ?

He is from 70s and have less or no Idea abt our needs..

Ask any IAF high official of today or from mid 90s, He would praise IA transport and CAS assets..

A slightly more cynical view came from another air force officer who said the army was being too acquisitive. "If you have too many generals, you will want to buy more helicopters, since generals like to fly," he commented wryly.

For your Own knowledge, Dont fall for this statement..
A Field Commander need to be transported by Air coz its Safe and fast, Besides its not only Commanders but any High rank official or High priority assets..

Its in every Army, US, Russian anyone with Air assets would like to transport it commanders in it..


Besides, This officer is simply cant hold his rant..

The army is in the process of acquiring attack and utility helicopters. The US-made Apache Longbow and the Russian-origin Mil are competing to sell attack helicopters to the army that is also preparing to expand its airlift capability. Part of the reason for this is the requirement projected for internal security duties.

The article is bit incorrect, Its IAF not IA is in process of Acquiring these helos..

IA might eventually get its wish fulfilled & it might get its own 'air force' but it would definitely piss the IAF off.

No, As i said before IAF is happy

 

[black eagle]

U have to read that (retired) is questioning ?

He is from 70s and have less or no Idea abt our needs..

Ask any IAF high official of today or from mid 90s, He would praise IA transport and CAS assets..

You would be aware Kunal that in the armed forces retired people most of the time reflect the opinion & views of their respective forces & also at times the views of the armed forces collectively as unlike other services the retired fellows of the armed forces still kind of belong to the military family & they somewhat know what goes on within the forces.

As far as being from the 70s or 80s is concerned then all high ranking military officials of today also belong to those times. So i wouldn't go as far as saying that "they have no idea about our needs."

Ofcourse nobody expects any high ranking official from the IAF to come on record & publicly lambast the idea of army having its own air wing with fixed wing crafts. At most they might give anonymous statements which would reflect the IAF's view on the matter or they might let their reservations known in official meetings on the issue.

For your Own knowledge, Dont fall for this statement..
A Field Commander need to be transported by Air coz its Safe and fast, Besides its not only Commanders but any High rank official or High priority assets..

Its in every Army, US, Russian anyone with Air assets would like to transport it commanders in it..


Besides, This officer is simply cant hold his rant..

Ofcourse i don't give much importance to the things said in that statement as i am aware this was said out of ego rather than anything else. But you should know that in our country at times inter-services rivalry plays an important part while deciding things. Look at the rivalry that exists between the intelligence & various security agencies in our country which is often blamed for failure of intelligence & terrorist attacks. Everyone is well aware of the fact that similar rivalry exists between the armed forces as well.

No, As i said before IAF is happy

I would like to see some proof in support of that...


I, personally, would be all too happy to see the army having its own credible air wing. I have always felt that the Mi-25s & 35s should have belonged to the army & not the IAF. Even the apaches/Mi-28s (whichever is bought) should be under operational command of the army & not the IAF. IAF should move towards a more strategic role & leave the entire spectrum of CAS to the army. But i would be easier said than done. As i said EGO....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Ofcourse nobody expects any high ranking official from the IAF to come on record & publicly lambast the idea of army having its own air wing with fixed wing crafts. At most they might give anonymous statements which would reflect the IAF's view on the matter or they might let their reservations known in official meetings on the issue. ( THERE IS YOUR ANSWER )

^^
I would like to see some proof in support of that...

But you should know that in our country at times inter-services rivalry plays an important part while deciding things, Everyone is well aware of the fact that similar rivalry exists between the armed forces as well.

As again i should say, Dont fall for such articles, who like to hype-up the rivalry between two forces in same group so that their news sells more..

Army and Airforce are not rivals at all, Airforce is for IA`s needs and always will be, But their are conditions where IAF cannot do much..

Those are the places IA needs its own assets..

 

[black eagle]

they might let their reservations known in official meetings on the issue. ( THERE IS YOUR ANSWER )

Could you please elaborate. i didn't get that...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Could you please elaborate. i didn't get that...

U answered your own question, No IAF official come out and publicly express his views regarding how good is IA Avations is and will be or equally opposite..

For such knowledge u have to be in the uniform or someone who know someone in person..

For the proof, As i said before, U have to talk with officials to know abt the matter..

I know coz i am in the same environment...

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

i think we should call it expansion of army aviation corps and not raising of small "air force" because the latter might hurt the iaf ego.also the iaf must raise a small"army" or "armoured corps" with the induction of a large no. of arjun mbt,155mm denel sph,towed howitzers,mbrl-pinaka etc.most of these highly important battlewining assets have been rejected by army in favour of inferior foreign ones so these will be a good back up option in case the army fails in the 2 front war