Indian Army Artillery

[Pandeyji]

Why would a 45 caliber gun (that's not part of Army's field rationalization plan at all) be produced once 52 caliber ATAGS is production ready?

It would be better if you keep focus on events & news instead of trying to think of insults.

Series production will start at the Gun Carriage Factory in Jabalpur, Madhya Pradesh at the rate of 3 guns per month. In March 2013, the defence ministry had placed an order worth over Rs 1,260-crore for acquisition of 114 Dhanush subject to its clearing the trials. The order will be completed within 3 years. The total requirement for this gun for the army is put at 414 and the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) will be in a position to ramp up production to 100 guns a year to complete the order by 2020.

All those number on K9 etc are pulled from your posterior

Offcourse, because as we know L&T went through the trouble of developing a whole new production line to make 100 guns, only the last 10 of which would be manufactured 100% in India. Use bloody common sense.

You cannot just raise additional strike corps just to fit more tracked-howitzers!

You could! In fact the orders are frequently changed in the armed forces. These "plans" aren't set in stone. They are subject to change based on situation. Or to paraphrase Moltke

[QUOTE = Moltke]
No plan of action survives 1st contact with reality
[/QUOTE]

 

[Enquirer]

It would be better if you keep focus on events & news instead of trying to think of insults.




Offcourse, because as we know L&T went through the trouble of developing a whole new production line to make 100 guns, only the last 10 of which would be manufactured 100% in India. Use bloody common sense.


You could! In fact the orders are frequently changed in the armed forces. These "plans" aren't set in stone. They are subject to change based on situation. Or to paraphrase Moltke

[QUOTE = Moltke]
No plan of action survives 1st contact with reality

[/QUOTE]
Indian Army exclusively shared their new/changed plans with you ??
I don't mind if people express their personal opinions (no matter how flawed they are)...as long as one states it as such.
When someone passes off a personal opinion as a matter of fact then its annoying!

 

[Pandeyji]

Indian Army exclusively shared their new/changed plans with you ??
I don't mind if people express their personal opinions (no matter how flawed they are)...as long as one states it as such.
When someone passes off a personal opinion as a matter of fact then its annoying![/QUOTE]
Oh wow good job ignoring the proof. So do you excel in ad-hominem or have you trained in it?

 

[Bhadra]

Very informative discussion. Isn't the order of 114 Dhanush Guns too less considering 4000 KM border with Pakistan & 7000 KM border with China? As the gentleman rightly said once initial development is done by OFB, mass production should be shifted to private sector.

Ok, let me ask you. What is the production capacity of GCF Jabalpur. If they are only able to make barely 18 guns per year or even if 36 per year why should the buyer place an order for hundreds ? How will economy of scale be achieved by placing such large order?

It may be argued that OFB will be able to procure larger quantity of material etc but what if the material becomes cheaper next year? What if the cost of components, metal such as steel etc falls drastically in future ? The area of gun making is such that like aircraft there is no surety that the prices will always increase rather than decrease.

What about technical development. Next year there might be a far better ballistics computer available in the market at cheaper prices. There might be revolution in Titanium production in India and Army decides that after 100 guns all guns should be Titanium.

OFB runs factories which are primarily economic activities. The buyers - seller or maker relations must be based on economic considerations. Simple and plain.

OK if the Army gives an order of 400 guns will GCF establish three assembly / manufacturing lines. Never ever. If rate of production is say 18 Guns per annum then why order 400 ? So that GCF Jabalpur keeps their shop running for another 50 years. That is not the responsibility of Armed Forces.

Any information regarding ATAG Orders and production/Delivery will also be good as it will boost the morale.

One thing is for sure - rate of production of ATGS will be much faster. They will target their production at export the system and components. Assembly lines established by them can be exploited for other economic activities. One thing is certain - India needs more Light Howitzers. The trends are bright. See this and have a guess :


https://agmetalminer.com/2014/07/22/the-real-reason-behind-indias-titanium-push-rare-earths/

Gentleman said about ammunition being weak spot. Are we mass manufacturing ammunition indigenously?

Have you ever seen how the artillery shell cases are filled with hot slurry at OF Itarasi . One will forget firing an artillary shell !

All Ordinance Factories need modernisation and revamping.

 

[Bhadra]

order of 114 Dhanush Guns too less considering ,,,,, once initial development is ds production should be shifted to private sector.

Shift production to Private sector. That is good idea. GCF Jabalpur then should wash their hands off or continue making 18 guns per annum.

Standardised caliber is 155 X 52. OFB bofors 155 X 45 is a "jabardasti". A difference of 4 - 10 km range in planning deep fires is significant.

Why then orders for more numbers ? "Orders for large number" has become shoting point for friends from DRDO and OFB. Is it because and so that the order is placed on private sector by Manager of GCF and he makes a hefty sum in commission ?

Let MoD or at best the Army decide.

 

[arya]

Shift production to Private sector. That is good idea. GCF Jabalpur then should wash their hands off or continue making 18 guns per annum.

Why then orders for more numbers ? So that the order is placed on private sector by Mnager of GCF and he makes a hefty sum in commission ?

Let MoD or at best the Army decide.

Govt is thinking something like this if same govt take place .

but the important thing is quality ??

 

[Bhadra]

Govt is thinking something like this if same govt take place .

but the important thing is quality ??

If the Rare Earths Ltd is really able to make a vast quantity of Titanium in the country, I am sure Army will go in for more numbers of Light Howitzers. 144 numbers is too less .

I am sure quality will be good because of joint venture partners. Bharat Forge and L&T are very reliable brands.

 

[THANOS]

can any one shed more info on these news

 

[Aghore_King]

can any one shed more info on these news

AFAIK artillery shells can't be jammed , they can only be intercepted, and that too in only limited numbers.

 

[DivineHeretic]

AFAIK artillery shells can't be jammed , they can only be intercepted, and that too in only limited numbers.

Depends on the kind of fuze.

Simple impact based fuze can't be jammed.

Air burst fuze based on radio frequency, set to detonate at certain height above ground, can be confused.

Dispersal ammunition fuze may be jammed, depending on mechanism of dispersal fuze.

Guided munitions shells with GPS/INS can be jammed.

 

[Aghore_King]

Depends on the kind of fuze.

Simple impact based fuze can't be jammed.

Air burst fuze based on radio frequency, set to detonate at certain height above ground, can be confused.

Dispersal ammunition fuze may be jammed, depending on mechanism of dispersal fuze.

Guided munitions shells with GPS/INS can be jammed.

But we use dumb shells to bomb pakis, so this may not be an issue.

 

[indiatester]

AFAIK artillery shells can't be jammed , they can only be intercepted, and that too in only limited numbers.

The shells have a fuze which are electronic. That can be knocked off with EMP if they are not properly hardened against electronic countermeasures.
http://www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usa6/fuzes/index.html

 

[Aghore_King]

The shells have a fuze which are electronic. That can be knocked off with EMP if they are not properly hardened against electronic countermeasures.
http://www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usa6/fuzes/index.html

So , will the warhead still explode after jamming of shell?

 

[indiatester]

So , will the warhead still explode after jamming of shell?

Technically you are knocking off the electronics of the fuze. If you are successful in frying the electronics and if there is no redundant trigger mechanism, the warhead won't explode.

 

[Bleh]

Technically you are knocking off the electronics of the fuze. If you are successful in frying the electronics and if there is no redundant trigger mechanism, the warhead won't explode.

Why don't we switch to mechanical ones then (for non-airburst dumbfucks ones)?
With the G-forces the shells go through, it should be easy & reliable if utilised.

 

[indiatester]

Why don't we switch to mechanical ones then (for non-airburst dumbfucks ones)?
With the G-forces the shells go through, it should be easy & reliable if utilised.

Changing the parameters by switching out the fuze will be cumbersome when you are using them.
Its far easier to just change the electronic parameter in bulk for the shells rather than having to replace them with a different mechanism (for ex, you want to shift from proximity detonation to time delay with different delay)

 

[Aghore_King]

Technically you are knocking off the electronics of the fuze. If you are successful in frying the electronics and if there is no redundant trigger mechanism, the warhead won't explode.

Impact based fuzes will be much better in those cases...

 

[indiatester]

Impact based fuzes will be much better in those cases...

As a redundancy mechanism sure. But what if you know that air burst is going to give you best results? As a user, you need that flexibility in the field.
Carrying multiple fuzes will impact the response time and also the logistics of supply and storage.

 

[Bhadra]

can any one shed more info on these news

From where have you got this "kouri" ?

http://www.ofbindia.gov.in/index.php?wh=A-E-P-C&lang=en


155 Shells

155 mm SHELL HE 107 (Different types including Zelar Fuze, PDM572C1)
155 mm SHELL HE M 77B (Different types including Zelar Fuze, PDM572C1)
155 mm SHELL HEER (Zelar, PD M 572)
155 mm SHELL SMOKE ER 24KM (DM 153)
SHELL 155 mm ILLUMINATING MIRA (Mechanical adjustable time fuze)
SHELL 155 mm HE (Field interchangeable boat tail/base bleed unit.
Ballistic similitude between all shell types. Fuze type not given but all NATO type fuzes can fit)
SHELL 155 MM ILLUMINATING ERFB (DM-153 or M76 Ex-Bulova)
SHELL 155 MM SCREENING SMOKE BE M2A2 (M85P13T3/ DM-153)
155 mm HE ERFB BB (PDM - 572 CI & M85 P13 A3)
155 mm HE ERFB BT (PDM - 572 CI & M85 P13 A3)
155 mm HE-ER BASE BLEED PROJECTILE (PD or VT)


Fuzes Made by OFB


FUZE FZ 104
Fuze 213 MK5 (M-1) & (M-2) ad (M-3) & (M-4)
FUZE L 29 A2/A3
FUZE PERCUSSION DA NO.117
FUZE FOR ROCKET 122 mm HE
PROXIMITY FUZE 76.2
FUZE DA- 5A
FUZE 162 MK-8 AND FUZE 162 MK - 9
FUZE 161 MK 3 M-1
FUZE PD M 572 FOR 155 mm

EW would work on electronic / radio wave fuzes.
Sir, Please tell me which fuze made by OFB is electronic fuze functioning on radio waves ( CW / FM / PD / TD etc or otherwise )

Which 155mm Artillery shell is electronic fuze ?

Are we importing fuzes for 105mm, 130 mm and 155 mm ?

I am not including a 124mm, 214 mm and 300 mm rocket artillery and their fuzes May be those rockets have electronic fuzes but I am not aware.

Can any one clarify ? Thanks.

 

[indiatester]

From where have you got this "kouri" ?

http://www.ofbindia.gov.in/index.php?wh=A-E-P-C&lang=en


155 Shells

155 mm SHELL HE 107 (Different types including Zelar Fuze, PDM572C1)
155 mm SHELL HE M 77B (Different types including Zelar Fuze, PDM572C1)
155 mm SHELL HEER (Zelar, PD M 572)
155 mm SHELL SMOKE ER 24KM (DM 153)
SHELL 155 mm ILLUMINATING MIRA (Mechanical adjustable time fuze)
SHELL 155 mm HE (Field interchangeable boat tail/base bleed unit.
Ballistic similitude between all shell types. Fuze type not given but all NATO type fuzes can fit)
SHELL 155 MM ILLUMINATING ERFB (DM-153 or M76 Ex-Bulova)
SHELL 155 MM SCREENING SMOKE BE M2A2 (M85P13T3/ DM-153)
155 mm HE ERFB BB (PDM - 572 CI & M85 P13 A3)
155 mm HE ERFB BT (PDM - 572 CI & M85 P13 A3)
155 mm HE-ER BASE BLEED PROJECTILE (PD or VT)


Fuzes Made by OFB


FUZE FZ 104
Fuze 213 MK5 (M-1) & (M-2) ad (M-3) & (M-4)
FUZE L 29 A2/A3
FUZE PERCUSSION DA NO.117
FUZE FOR ROCKET 122 mm HE
PROXIMITY FUZE 76.2
FUZE DA- 5A
FUZE 162 MK-8 AND FUZE 162 MK - 9
FUZE 161 MK 3 M-1
FUZE PD M 572 FOR 155 mm

EW would work on electronic / radio wave fuzes.
Sir, Please tell me which fuze made by OFB is electronic fuze functioning on radio waves ( CW / FM / PD / TD etc or otherwise )

Which 155mm Artillery shell is electronic fuze ?

Are we importing fuzes for 105mm, 130 mm and 155 mm ?

I am not including a 124mm, 214 mm and 300 mm rocket artillery and their fuzes May be those rockets have electronic fuzes but I am not aware.

Can any one clarify ? Thanks.

OFB link you sent has these
http://www.ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/fz/6.htm

DESCRIPTION
Designed for use in combination with ammunition of 76.2/59 Naval Guns to counter air attacks and low flying missile attacks.

Capable of multi-role functions without any mode selection devices.

Use of advanced micro electronics techniques enables the product to optimise its performance on targets flying upto 5 metres above sea level.

Sea Clutter Rejection Circuits incorporated for engaging sea skimmers at a few metres above the sea surface.

Electronic fuses are being manufactured by ECIL currently, but thats under license
http://www.defproac.com/?p=6219

And BEL setup a unit to produce electronic fuses.
https://indianexpress.com/article/c...nufacturing-facility-launched-at-bel-4913016/