Indian Army Artillery

[Adioz]

K9 Vajra includes cost to build factory of production, ToT charges etc.

Also,the way I see it, howitzers are used from a distance of 25-40km and the armor is unnecessary. Howitzer don't fire in direct line of sight and can't be targeted by enemy directly either. I don't see the need for armour. Howitzer is not a tank and in case howitzers are within 5km of a tank, there is no way howitzers can win. Howitzers are not meant to aim accurate direct shots. Someone has to use anti tank missile to destroy the tank before it kills the howitzers.

In fact, towed howitzers are far better than SPG due to ease in towing, ability to be strapped to a truck for faster long distance mobility or donkeys to be pulled over a mountain. Artillery is mostly used in mountainous terrain for concealment and that makes SPG a liability. The APU in the howitzer itself is considered to be more than sufficient for cases of urgent mobility needs. Artillery regiment is stationed for weeks and months and fuel problems becomes a much bigger problem.

SPG is simply put - difficult to move, requires high logistics, difficult to reload, difficult to operate and can't enter mountainous areas.

I don't see much needs for SPG but I do agree that it is better to have some than not. But I definitely don't see any need to have armoured chassis for it.

Self Propelled Howitzers (hereafter referred to as SPH) are meant to provide artillery support to an armoured spearhead in the force structure. An Armoured Spearhead consists of tanks, other armoured vehicles like Infantry Fighting Vehicles, Amoured Air Defence and SPH supported by Engineers and Signals, Close Air Support and recon aircraft. All these move as one force. It is a maneuver force meant to exploit a weak space in an enemy defensive line, and then break into the enemy rear area and either cut off the enemy frontline or capture a relatively less-defended objective with swift action. Why we specifically use SPH instead of Truck Mounted Howitzers or Towed Howitzers in these cases is explained below:-

1. Better Mobility: Towed Howitzers are not mobile enough. They have higher emplacement and displacement times. Truck Mounted Howitzers and SPH have superior mobility. This allows them to keep up with an armoured formation, particularly when they are dashing past enemy frontline to hit the enemy rear or seize an objective swiftly. SPH does not need much time to go into firing position, and can be fired from a completely unprepared position. SPH can also traverse some of the terrain that might be difficult for a Towed unit to cross (I might be wrong about this last sentence).
2. Better Protection: Counter Battery fire would destroy any towed field artillery unit that is not provided with a dug-out emplacement. OTOH, Mounted gun units rely on their mobility and shoot-n-scoot tactics to increase their battlefield survivability. SPH however are meant to closely follow the armoured spearhead when it moves past enemy defensive line and into the rear areas of enemy tactical space. The armoured spearhead thrusts along one major axis of advance. The enemy ascertains all likely axis of advance based on location of breach of their front and location of strategic objectives. This means that the enemy has a fair idea of the possible axis of advance and therefore has a rough location of the armoured formation.Hence, enemy can employ artillery more effectively against our armoured formation than it can against the towed howitzers in their emplacements. The towed howitzers are constantly changing their position in the sheltered safety of our defensive front, which makes locating them a lot more difficult for the enemy. An SPH is used since its armour can provide sufficient protection against an artillery barrage (against splinters; direct hits go through, but are rare), even in the absence of appreciable cover. This surviavbility is essential for an artillery unit attached to a Strike formation.

A few other points:-

• APU on towed howitzers is ONLY to make emplacement and displacement more efficient. Lighter guns (like Indian Field Gun and M777) use manual effort of gun crew to move it into ready-position. But heavier guns (like Dhanush or ATAGS) need considerably more effort for the same. Since weight penalty is negligible in these guns, an APU is provided. However in all cases, towed howitzers move into new firing locations by being hauled by Field Artillery Tractors. That is why they are called towed howitzers.
• SPH are not usually employed in direct fire modes. However, that does not mean they cannot be employed in such roles. Such innovative use of machines is the hallmark of all professional armies. This kind of field innovation is what gave us the concept of Armour Piercing rounds. If a howitzer is used like a WW-II era tank hunter, i.e. to ambush the enemy tank, then the SPH will win even if the enemy tank is within 5 km of range.
• Not all towed artillery can be pulled up a mountain intact. And good luck pulling ATAGS up a mountain using mules. It will look like a comic version of a chariot.
• I do agree that SPH will not be the preferred self-propelled artillery in the mountains. Maybe that is why the IA is considering 814 mounted guns.
• Not sure if they are required for Cold Start doctrine, however, for the Sunderji doctrine SPH in large numbers are indispensable. Since you have a high affinity for total war and think that limited war is "retarded", I figure you would be a fan of the Sunderji doctrine. Hence, you should be appreciative of the need of SPH in Indian Army.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

SPGH like Vajra are key in mech formations as these vehicles can keep with Armour thrust, Those 100 of Vajras are going to be in strike corp ..

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

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[lcafanboy]

IMPLICATIONS FOR INDIA? K-9 HOWITZER MALFUNCTION KILLS TWO S KOREAN SOLDIERS
TUESDAY, AUGUST 22, 2017 BY INDIANDEFENSE NEWS

South Korea self-propelled Howitzer K-9 engages in a live-fire exercise
The explosion of a self-propelled howitzer ‘K-9 Thunder’ that killed South Korean soldiers last week is appeared to have caused by the combustion of gunpowder that is used to propel artillery shells toward the target, local media reports.
“For reasons unknown, there was smoke inside the howitzer’s breach block assembly,” the South Korean Army official was quoted as saying by The Korean Herald on Monday. “According to our on-site investigation, three sets of gunpowder were completely burned down without any trace,” source said.
Two South Korean soldiers were killed and five injured in an explosion inside a K-9 Thunder during artillery training Friday in Choerwon, Gangwon Province.
The Army decided to halt K-9 artillery firings for training purposes until the official investigation on the exact cause of the explosion is concluded. The training was designed to improve accuracy of counter-artillery attacks toward North Korea.
Touted as “high-quality indigenous artillery” for its longer range and higher rate of firing, he indigenous howitzer is manufactured by Samsung Techwin and has been exported to four foreign countries including Turkey, Poland, Finland and India.
However, since malfunctioning of two howitzers in 2010 during Pyongyang’s 2010 bombardment of Yeonpyong Island, the howitzer has been under scrutiny.
More than 1,000 K-9s have been produced and they suffered from 1,700 malfunctions over the past five years. It means that every K-9 suffers from about two cases of malfunction every five years. This is similar to a car driven for five years, one might see a similar number of malfunctions.
It is worthy to note that, Larsen & Toubro (L&T) had signed a contract with Hanwha Techwin (HTW) in for execution of the 155mm/52 Cal tracked self-propelled (SP) gun program for the Indian Army.
L&T was declared as the sole qualified bidder, post User Evaluation Trials, based on the performance of the K-9 Vajra-T, a self-propelled howitzer appropriately customised and fielded by L&T with HTW as the technology partner. The K9 Vajra-T gun is an enhanced version of HTW’s K9 Thunder, to suit specific requirements of the Indian Army including desert operations.
Source>>

 

[Kalki_2018]

Never liked this deal at all. Instead they should have resurrected Bhim with Dhanush or ATAGS gun on Arjun instead of Denel. Hopefully we will see that along with mounted guns.

 

[Chinmoy]

IMPLICATIONS FOR INDIA? K-9 HOWITZER MALFUNCTION KILLS TWO S KOREAN SOLDIERS
TUESDAY, AUGUST 22, 2017 BY INDIANDEFENSE NEWS

South Korea self-propelled Howitzer K-9 engages in a live-fire exercise
The explosion of a self-propelled howitzer ‘K-9 Thunder’ that killed South Korean soldiers last week is appeared to have caused by the combustion of gunpowder that is used to propel artillery shells toward the target, local media reports.
“For reasons unknown, there was smoke inside the howitzer’s breach block assembly,” the South Korean Army official was quoted as saying by The Korean Herald on Monday. “According to our on-site investigation, three sets of gunpowder were completely burned down without any trace,” source said.
Two South Korean soldiers were killed and five injured in an explosion inside a K-9 Thunder during artillery training Friday in Choerwon, Gangwon Province.
The Army decided to halt K-9 artillery firings for training purposes until the official investigation on the exact cause of the explosion is concluded. The training was designed to improve accuracy of counter-artillery attacks toward North Korea.
Touted as “high-quality indigenous artillery” for its longer range and higher rate of firing, he indigenous howitzer is manufactured by Samsung Techwin and has been exported to four foreign countries including Turkey, Poland, Finland and India.
However, since malfunctioning of two howitzers in 2010 during Pyongyang’s 2010 bombardment of Yeonpyong Island, the howitzer has been under scrutiny.
More than 1,000 K-9s have been produced and they suffered from 1,700 malfunctions over the past five years. It means that every K-9 suffers from about two cases of malfunction every five years. This is similar to a car driven for five years, one might see a similar number of malfunctions.
It is worthy to note that, Larsen & Toubro (L&T) had signed a contract with Hanwha Techwin (HTW) in for execution of the 155mm/52 Cal tracked self-propelled (SP) gun program for the Indian Army.
L&T was declared as the sole qualified bidder, post User Evaluation Trials, based on the performance of the K-9 Vajra-T, a self-propelled howitzer appropriately customised and fielded by L&T with HTW as the technology partner. The K9 Vajra-T gun is an enhanced version of HTW’s K9 Thunder, to suit specific requirements of the Indian Army including desert operations.
Source>>

Where is our media now who was gung ho about the muzzle burst in one Dhanush???

 

[porky_kicker]

from ECIL

artillery radio-jammers, the jammers operates in HF and VHF

these shells are fired into target areas to disrupt enemy radio communications

 

[porky_kicker]

Impressive to have two different wavelength and frequency band, that too S and Ka in one single aperture. Do you have any link for tech specs of this set up. What is the size of the aperture or antenna? S band does need a huge antenna of say 25mtr or so. But the one in pic doesn't look that big.

no dont have the links for tech specs of this set up.

i posted what is available in open domain .

u could try googling though , see if anything extra turns up.

 

[Chinmoy]

no dont have the links for tech specs of this set up.

i posted what is available in open domain .

u could try googling though , see if anything extra turns up.

Tried it. Nothing more is available in open domain. Nothing about the frequency jamming artillery shell too. But seems, Cold Start Doctrine is up and kicking......

 

[porky_kicker]

Indian version of LORROS made by BEL

LORROS (long range reconnaissance and observation system) (detachable tripod)

FEATURES

1.3rd Generation Thermal Imager, Day TV Camera
2.Pan & Tiltable platform to provide slewing facility to the direction of interest
3.Auto-tracking of target / contrasted target image
4.Remote Control Operation
5.Network able interface with the main system
6.Video recording and streaming to long distance by network
7.Simulated control hardware and software for sub-system testing

 

[porky_kicker]

TATA mapex geographical information system

 

[porky_kicker]

this one is a extendable mast mounted on a mobile platform

the mast can mount surveillance systems of various types

 

[porky_kicker]

Direction Finding System

This is state-of-the-art direction finding and intelligence gathering system designed to gather, process and produce COMINT information for creating real-time picture. The DF system provides a continuous and dynamic flow of COMINT derived intelligence data in real-time. The DF system is designed to operate in the battlefield, where the modern frequency agile transmitters do not allow an operator to listen. The DF system is able to support a wide range of operations from low intensity conflict or peace support operations to full-scale war.

FEATURES

1.Communication EW System works in Standalone & Integrated mode
2.High DF Accuracy
3.Finds LF information very quickly in integrated mode
4.Secured point –to- point communication in integrated mode of operation
5.Broadcasts the LF information to the Foot Soldier
6.High speed scan
7.Detection of FF, FH and Burst signals
8.Location Fixing on Raster Maps
9.Database for storage & retrieval of system status
10.Mission Management & Report Generation

 

[porky_kicker]

sighting systems for ATAGS

 

[porky_kicker]

sighting systems for ATAGS

 

[porky_kicker]

thermal imager.......................

 

[Kunal Biswas]

105mm some where in sikkim ( Photo take in 2011 ), Second photo where 105mm is showcased somewhere ..

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Old gun 122mm D-30 ..

 

[Bornubus]

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[Bornubus]

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[porky_kicker]

prahari is a state of the art Long Range Reconnaissance, Observation & Surveillance System. The system is suitable for day and night operation and in adverse battle field conditions. The system will be extremely useful for Border surveillance and Intruder detection. The system is capable of long range detection, recognition and identification of targets, their co-ordinates which can be passed onto Battery for firing.

Continuous Optical Zoom TI camera
Continuous Optical Zoom Colour CCD Camera
Spotter Scope with Black and white CCD
Eye Safe LRF
Advanced Pan & Tilt with Panoramic Azimuth Capability
Easy Networking interface with other systems
Panoramic View creation
North Finding using celestial bodies and also known targets
Video Recording and Recalling features
Motion detection and alarm in Observation Mode
Optional Wireless and Fiber Optical links between Observation and Control Unit