Indian Army Artillery

Pulkit

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M777 ultra-light howitzers in India through a private Indian production agency







Most significantly for the Army, the government has cleared the manufacture of 145 BAE Systems M777 ultra-light howitzers in India through a private Indian production agency, likely to be among L&T, Tata or Mahindra Defence. Boom. A deal back from the dead.

Source : http://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/05/big-bang-india-clears-3-big-deals-with.html
Are the costing issues settled If my memory serves me well the deal was stuck due to high pricing?
Where Are we at having a desi alternative to this?

^^ I think the above is a Temp term solution, I hoping for Kalyani .co`s product ..

Kalyani product will be heavier than this once IA has M777 they are gonna kill that product at any cost.

What is the total requirement?
 

Kunal Biswas

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Cannot say about the costs, But i assuming it will be cheaper to build in India as most of the system will be from Indian raw material ..

In my view, Baba`s gun will be better as the change of requirement can be done at it without any issues from third party, For example change of recoils system with commonality with DRDO AGS ..

The reqirment is 145x3 as of now ..


Are the costing issues settled If my memory serves me well the deal was stuck due to high pricing?
Where Are we at having a desi alternative to this?


Kalyani product will be heavier than this once IA has M777 they are gonna kill that product at any cost.

What is the total requirement?
 

Pulkit

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Cannot say about the costs, But i assuming it will be cheaper to build in India as most of the system will be from Indian raw material ..

In my view, Baba`s gun will be better as the change of requirement can be done at it without any issues from third party, For example change of recoils system with commonality with DRDO AGS ..

The reqirment is 145x3 as of now ..
M777 was the sole choice available in the weight (light) category .
Is army ok with the heavier gun?
Can Baba's gun be airlifted easily to various locations which was one of the reasons why army wanted to buy M777 even at high cost?

Can Baba's gun be replacement of M777?

Locally made gun can be easily customized as per our requirements,True but this reasoning has always been rejected by our "" IA.

I am still assuming that the price being offered even now wont be cheap hence M777 is not a good choice as even with small numbers it has or will hamper progress of the local gun.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Important here is any gun which can be airlifted via MI-17s..

IFG 105 is +3000kgs ..
M777 is +4000kgs ..
Baba`s Gun is also +4000kgs ..

In this sense the guns can be relocated same as M777, But Baba`s gun is yet to be put in prototype phase hence purchase and lisence production of M777 ..
I think wht you mention has water and it might be true, But i hope for the best in Interest of this Nation ..

M777 was the sole choice available in the weight (light) category .
Is army ok with the heavier gun?
Can Baba's gun be airlifted easily to various locations which was one of the reasons why army wanted to buy M777 even at high cost?

Can Baba's gun be replacement of M777?

Locally made gun can be easily customized as per our requirements,True but this reasoning has always been rejected by our "" IA.

I am still assuming that the price being offered even now wont be cheap hence M777 is not a good choice as even with small numbers it has or will hamper progress of the local gun.
 

blueblood

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The figure 2900 crores is being mentioned for the deal. If true, then we are getting M777s for the "dirt cheap" price of nearly $3 million a piece. Follow on orders will bring down the price even further, somewhere in the lines of $2 million Dhanush.

Parrikar rocks. :hail:
 

Hari Sud

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Glad to be back and see all friends here.

What happened to the previous website? Last I saw, it said that it is under upgrade. Then I suddenly discovered this website.

Now back to the subject.......

M777 will always be preferred by the IA, no matter what the Kalyani does to its gun to make it superior. We have a spoiled bunch of General's. Kalyani gun will not even see the prototype. BAE with IA's help will kill this project. From then on about 20 to 30% component will be supplied by BAE, making India dependent on imports forever.
 

Bhadra

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IA must place order in large number.
Why should IA place large order when their accepted and decided calibre is 155 / 52 (well known to every one for more that ten years) you mean to say IA should change doctrinal parameters to please OFV - why can not they make 155/52 ?
The apologist here would say IA deliberately kept the calibre 155/52 so that OFVs are kept out !!

I feel like laughing.
 

ezsasa

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As far as I know army field artillery rationalisation plan is for 3000-4000 field guns.

145 pieces of M777 is just 15% of total requirement, there is plenty of room for indigenous guns to get in. Provided they prove their worth on the field.
 

Bhadra

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Glad
M777 will always be preferred by the IA, no matter what the Kalyani does to its gun to make it superior. We have a spoiled bunch of General's. Kalyani gun will not even see the prototype. BAE with IA's help will kill this project. From then on about 20 to 30% component will be supplied by BAE, making India dependent on imports forever.
Like we have some awful bunch of commentators who in every post start cursing the IA and the generals as a matter of habit without any base or providing some credence to their arguments.

Kalyani is in business so let them prove their worth. Let them do what BAE does. Let them beat BAE hollow. That is what business is all about. Is Kalyani a beggar ? If it is so why should any one patronise beggars? Business means competition and winning competition. Are not Americans buying better things outside their country? Are not Russian buying Minstrel ? so their Armies are also useless and their Generals are also frauds.

I have requested you earlier also not to throw slender. And it is also frustrating moderators do not correct you.
 

Bhadra

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a good news :

Most significantly for the Army, the government has cleared the manufacture of 145 BAE Systems M777 ultra-light howitzers in India through a private Indian production agency, likely to be among L&T, Tata or Mahindra Defence. Boom. A deal back from the dead ...

So Kalyani is no where !! and the cursed Generals are no where !!

http://www.livefistdefence.com/
 

blueblood

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People are upset that an Indian company (Kalyani) will not be able to license produce the gun designed by an American company (Mandus Group)

So now we have to be content with an Indian company (L&T or Tata?) license producing the gun owned by an American company (BAE-US).

While also not realizing that jumping up and down for a product which do not exist in 3 dimensions and won't be a reality any time soon, practically, is very something (I lack the words).

It's a sad sad day for all patriotic Indians. It sucks balls that we are finally receiving 155 mm guns after three long decades. I hate it.
:crying: :rage:
 

Kunal Biswas

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Their is very little difference between the prefromace of a 45cal barrel and a 52cal, Go Google ..

30 years no gun, Is lot better than plenty in next 6 months, Common sense ..

Why should IA place large order when their accepted and decided calibre is 155 / 52 ( The apologist here would say IA deliberately kept the calibre 155/52 so that OFVs are kept out !!

I feel like laughing.
 

Rushil51

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Important here is any gun which can be airlifted via MI-17s..

IFG 105 is +3000kgs ..
M777 is +4000kgs ..
Baba`s Gun is also +4000kgs ..

In this sense the guns can be relocated same as M777, But Baba`s gun is yet to be put in prototype phase hence purchase and lisence production of M777 ..
I think wht you mention has water and it might be true, But i hope for the best in Interest of this Nation ..
The figure 2900 crores is being mentioned for the deal. If true, then we are getting M777s for the "dirt cheap" price of nearly $3 million a piece. Follow on orders will bring down the price even further, somewhere in the lines of $2 million Dhanush.

Parrikar rocks. :hail:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


This one says $700million dollars for 145 guns which would be equal too approx.5 million dollars per gun. But maybe the deal includes spare parts and ammunition too?
 

Kunal Biswas

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We are yet to receive conformation and detail via Government link, Cannot comment on exact detail as of now ..

Btw, US always sell its product in packages which includes training, Spare and other details, In case with us this also includes tot details ..
 

blueblood

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http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


This one says $700million dollars for 145 guns which would be equal too approx.5 million dollars per gun. But maybe the deal includes spare parts and ammunition too?
It is quite possible. Further confirmation by government sources will required.

At the same time you can also find multiple sources citing the "2900 crore" figure.

https://www.google.co.in/search?q=2...rhJVVb-FM4fM8gXm6oDgCw#q=700+million+145+guns

https://www.google.co.in/search?q=2...VVb-FM4fM8gXm6oDgCw#q=m777+india,+2900+crore+

Just my opinion, but the links for the $700 million figure are older and are probably repeating the 2013 UPA FMS figure of $694 million.
 

Abhi9

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All is fair in love and war
This post is not a rant or complain but a fair introspection into why people are arguing and maligning indian armed forces(OFFICERS) on these forum and on social media. Everybody should be open to criticism and armed forces in this world cannot hide behind words such as Integrity and honor anymore( Its not a sacred veil anymore). Roots of Indian army and the airforce starts from people fighting alongside and for the same imperial power that slaughtered your own brother's , sisters and children. You borrowed the same tradition and still continue with utter shamelessness as ever,Right from Chetewood Hall and Hanging pictures of British generals, its amazing. Even after 68 years of Independence you cannot devoid yourself of the colonial culture that exist even today. You are assigned Helpers to polish your shoes, wash your clothes and cook your food, bring you tea in the morning to even make your bed" FANTASTIC". 68 years and you were not able to work with scientist to help develop a healthy ecosystem of Industrial and military technology because of the same mindset that prevails that Foreign things are better" Hail Mother Russia" You had no intention to continue evolve technology technology and work on it as there was a easy way out. Pakistan is getting this, we will lose the war,lets go to mother Russia. Your country provides you every single thing at subsidy," From you car, your furniture, you rations, your liquor, you baggage every single thing comes from military canteen and you even let your relatives use that. " BRAVO". You guys are expert in armtwisting requirements on day to day basis, making baseless requirements from indigenous products, not freezing designs, daily changing your requirements and then blaming scientist for not being able to deliver or simply saying our requirements are not being met there is a better international product that suits are needs. You are the Army that makes its fighting tactics around a weapon and not designing a weapon as per your tactics" LOOK WHAT YOU DID to ARJUN AND INSAS" These are the most famous examples. You did not evolve them but killed them slowly. " HAIL MOTHER RUSSIA".You are not under scrutiny as other departments, you do corruption( TATRA SCAM, SUKNA LAND SCAM, SELL FLATS OF WIDOWS( oh they are just jawan's widows. SELL EVEN DIESEL FROM BASE DEPOTS, TAKE GIFTS FROM PRODUCT SELLERS). If there is a whistle blower, then you charge him with sedition, label him crazy and lock him in hospitals, subdue him, demote him and god knows what else. You guys make wrong use of power and trust and ask civilians not to criticize you. " PLEASE"

P's: This post carries no disrespect or slander to Honest officers and Jawans"
 

Kunal Biswas

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Calm down, Lets keep this to the topic ..

Don`t give much attention to trolls or flamebaiters, Just mention me right there ..

P's: This post carries no disrespect or slander to Honest officers and Jawans"
 

Kunal Biswas

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That is a serious concern and this Government know it ..

Before these clowns get National security compromised just for their own ego and Interest, Government made sure that this BAE gun get license produce with enough spares to run it even during sanctions, Their are many reason to kill Baba`s gun, If it came out it will challenge M777 globally ..

So, BAE will do everything to kill it ..

M777 will always be preferred by the IA, no matter what the Kalyani does to its gun to make it superior. We have a spoiled bunch of General's. Kalyani gun will not even see the prototype. BAE with IA's help will kill this project. From then on about 20 to 30% component will be supplied by BAE, making India dependent on imports forever.
 

Bhadra

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Important here is any gun which can be airlifted via MI-17s..

IFG 105 is +3000kgs ..
M777 is +4000kgs ..
Baba`s Gun is also +4000kgs ..

In this sense the guns can be relocated same as M777, But Baba`s gun is yet to be put in prototype phase hence purchase and lisence production of M777 ..
I think wht you mention has water and it might be true, But i hope for the best in Interest of this Nation ..

How many times 105 IFG has been helli-lifted ?
Weight is not the only criteria.

Even if helli-lifted with great efforts, what can this gun do in mountains? I hope the difference between gun and howitzers is understood? LFG has not had much of success.
I hope that the difference between 15Km and 42 km is also understood?
I further hope that the difference between 105 and 155 bomb is also understood?

M777 is there on ground and Baba is still in the air.
Baba's Gun is also a foreign mal - so why cry horse about it ?

I suggest these thing be decided by those who got to fight the war on ground rather than those who think they know more than the generals.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Replied in details in next post .. .................................................................................
 
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