India to set up defense university on patterns of U.S. West Point military academy

[LETHALFORCE]

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-02/22/content_10869808.htm

India to set up defense university on patterns of U.S. West Point military academy


www.chinaview.cn 2009-02-22 16:50:36 Print

NEW DELHI, Feb. 22 (Xinhua) -- India will soon have a dedicated defense university on the patterns of the West Point Military Academy in the United States, a senior Indian Defense Ministry official told the media on Sunday.

The Indian government is likely to approve soon the proposal for setting up of the Indian National Defense University in Gurgaon, a newly developed technological and business center in the suburb of New Delhi, 30 kilometers away from the center of the Indian capital, said the official on condition of anonymity.

The university would conduct post graduate courses for officers serving in the defense, paramilitary forces and civil services. The existing military institutions in India, which include the Army War College, Infantry School, National Defense Academy and Combat Army Aviation Training School (CAATS), will be affiliated to it, he said.

The proposal for setting up the university has been made since the Kargil War in 1999, when India and Pakistan troops fought from May to July that year in the Kargil district of Kashmir, said the official.

The Army War College is India's premier institution for officers and performs important functions of evaluation of concepts and doctrines in the fields of tactics and operational logistics.

The Infantry School is the country's largest and the oldest military training center of the Indian Army, and is responsible to develop the complete spectrum of tactical drills and concepts pertaining to infantry operating in varied terrain and environment.

The National Defence Academy is an Inter-Service training institution where future officers of Armed Forces are trained. The CAATS is the main training course for pilots of the air wing of the Indian Army and is responsible for the creation of some of the best pilots.


Editor: Deng Shasha

 

[shiv]

how will it be different from our NDA/IMA/OTA ect besides the naval academy which already provides 4 year engineering courses??anybody care to explain?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

maybe Indians will focus on military strategy rather than just the brute force that has been so successful in the past??

 

[shiv]

it is already being thought at the institutions--->saw that in OTA,i think the news reporters dont know jack and grab their nickers at every sneeze

 

[LETHALFORCE]

it's a chinese article so they might think some US sponsored/collaboration school?? since they mention West point model.

 

[screwterrorists]

it's a chinese article so they might think some US sponsored/collaboration school?? since they mention West point model.

Doubt it.
Btw, is this a training school or school to develop defense related equipment or what?

 

[kautilya]

brute strength? Have you ever studied the 1971 war? I'd like to see any other army go that fast and that successfully on riverine country.

Edit: In case that came across as too short, let me add that India has no shortage of professional military academies. It remains to be seen what the purpose of this university is. Xinhua has hardly the best source of information on the Indian army.

 

[Soham]

I live in Gurgaon !
It should be close to my house...

I wish they had gone this few years back.

 

[deltacamelately]

brute strength? Have you ever studied the 1971 war? I'd like to see any other army go that fast and that successfully on riverine country.

Germany.
As about 1971, well that was the 1st time that the Indian Army conducted a Blitzkreig ops instead of following its traditional Anglo-Saxon school of war doctrine.

 

[kautilya]

Germany.
As about 1971, well that was the 1st time that the Indian Army conducted a Blitzkreig ops instead of following its traditional Anglo-Saxon school of war doctrine.

I disagree. I specifically mentioned riverine for that reason. France is plains with a good transportation system. Poland qualifies, I guess. The conditions are similar. what was it? 150 miles a week. Very neat.

I digress. I don't agree about there being an anglo-saxon school for the first. The british except for monty were not into overwhelming force all over the place. The US I'd argue was far more into that doctrine of sheer numbers.
In the east FM Slim could concentrate forces when and where required. He didn't exactly have a glut of forces or equipment to qualify as brute force.

All that is also somewhat of a diversion. All said does the Indian army work and expect to win on the basis of brute strength? The answer is quite obviously no. We don't really have overwhelming number on Pakistan. I would argue that absolute numbers are meaningless. The total density(??) achievable is about the same on both sides. In that event using brute strength is impossible and meaningless.

And finally let me say what I define as brute strength. I mean an absolute superiority in numbers that you can use to overwhelm defenders everywhere as opposed to local concentration of forces. The latter being what I'm arguing the Indian Army has truly been doing.

And delta, nice to see you here too. I'm 'chankya' at the other place. :Laie_79:

 

[Rage]

how will it be different from our NDA/IMA/OTA ect besides the naval academy which already provides 4 year engineering courses??anybody care to explain?

Tentatively, as of now, the Indian National Defense University at Binola in Gurgaon will amalgamate curricula and doctrine of the existing think tanks, the national defence colleges and defence academies to create one coherent, autonomous institution on the lines of the West Point model that will conduct courses for not just officers of the armed forces, but of the civil services and paramilitary forces as well. Infact, the new university is the product of a 2000 recommendation of the committee that examined the 1999 Kargil conflict with Pakistan and reviewed the entire spectrum of defence and security management. The campus will also house new colleges conducting post-graduate courses in addition to being affiliated to the present military academies. In a way, it will 'institutionalize' and coalesce strategic thinking and operational doctrines in a country that is badly in need of it in a manner never achieved previously.

 

[Auberon]

maybe Indians will focus on military strategy rather than just the brute force that has been so successful in the past??

:coffee_spray:

how will it be different from our NDA/IMA/OTA ect besides the naval academy which already provides 4 year engineering courses??anybody care to explain?

These institutes only cater to military professionals, people who are otherwise interested in Defence and Stratergic Studies have to opt for various other Universities which offer this subject at UG and PG level. A dedicated premier Defence University will be optimal for not only mil. personnel but also Defence professionals and enthusiasts.

 

[kautilya]

Tentatively, as of now, the Indian National Defense University at Binola in Gurgaon will amalgamate curricula and doctrine of the existing think tanks, the national defence colleges and defence academies to create one coherent, autonomous institution on the lines of the West Point model that will conduct courses for not just officers of the armed forces, but of the civil services and paramilitary forces as well. Infact, the new university is the product of a 2000 recommendation of the committee that examined the 1999 Kargil conflict with Pakistan and reviewed the entire spectrum of defence and security management. The campus will also house new colleges conducting post-graduate courses in addition to being affiliated to the present military academies. In a way, it will 'institutionalize' and coalesce strategic thinking and operational doctrines in a country that is badly in need of it in a manner never achieved previously.

Correct me if I'm wrong but west point is more along the lines of the NDA or Sandhurst with the exception of it being exclusively for the Army.

The INDU as it seems to be called is a kind of Army war college on a more tri service + civilian scale to serve as a place for integrated geopolitical study and to serve as a kind of think tank for the govt. It is I believe based on a GoM recomendation after Kargil. In this role it'll probably plug a much noticed gap. I'm always impressed when the govt. and the parliament ever do anything of great foresight. Some days I'm convinced we give our polis less credit than the deserve.

I fail to see the "west point model" in any of this though.

 

[Rage]

Correct me if I'm wrong but west point is more along the lines of the NDA or Sandhurst with the exception of it being exclusively for the Army.

The INDU as it seems to be called is a kind of Army war college on a more tri service + civilian scale to serve as a place for integrated geopolitical study and to serve as a kind of think tank for the govt. It is I believe based on a GoM recomendation after Kargil. In this role it'll probably plug a much noticed gap. I'm always impressed when the govt. and the parliament ever do anything of great foresight. Some days I'm convinced we give our polis less credit than the deserve.

I fail to see the "west point model" in any of this though.

Kautilya,

The INDU will be established as an autonomous insitution under an act of Parliament, and will in all likelihood be supervised by a statutory working committee comprising members of the faculty- most likely drawn from elite, experienced faculty of other national defence institutions; veteran luminaries in the various fields of study assigned to the curriculum; and members of Parliament themselves. This is akin to the Board of Visitors (BOV) of the West Point model comprising: a panel of Senators, Congressional Representatives, and presidential appointees who shall "inquire into the morale and discipline, curriculum, instruction, physical equipment, fiscal affairs, academic methods, and other matters" relating to the functioning of the academy. Within the Academy itself, each academic department is headed by a serving tenured Colonel - with the 13 Colonels of the 13 Departments collectively forming the core of the Academic Board. This will ostensibly also be the format for the Indian National Defence University, with serving army officers educated in their affiliated field also serving as academic departmental heads. Because the INDU will cater to both tri service personnel and civilians interested in strategic and defense studies, there will expectedly be a great demand for admission with correspondingly limited enrollment. In that event, the INDU may chose to designate one or more of the other defence colleges or national defence academies to serve as preparatory schools akin to the USMAPS for the West Point. Infact, this seems to be one of the "affiliations" that reports on the subject seem to hinting at. Besides, I also foresee a role for our presently defunct JCO's on the lines of the Non-Comissioned Officers attached to 'Tacs' or Tactical Officers at West Point (Tactical Officers are students in their third and fourth years who serve as active duty officers in the capacity of Captain or Major). Additionally, the INDU will probably have an amalgamation of physical fitness programs comprising an army fitness test akin to the 'Army Physical Fitness Test' administered by West Point semi-annually; and a combination of sports and competitive athletics akin to the USMA's mandatory participation of atleast one intercollegiate sport or intermural per semester. My guess is also that the INDU will make available a host of extra curricular activities- particularly student campus organizations of a civilian, political, social and purely leisurely or avocative nature- to hone through practice the various skills developed among its student body in scholarship- similar to the 93 non-athletic clubs at West Point. And just as the core course of instruction at West Point encompasses a dizzying array of subjects from mathematics to computer science to chemistry, physics, engineering, history, physical geography, philosophy, leadership and general psychology, English composition and literature, foreign languages, the political sciences, international relations, economics, and constitutional law, so too will the academic curriculum at the INDU be designed to include a broad and simultaneously cohesive overall education to fashion our civilian and military leaders of tomorrow.

 

[kautilya]

rage,

I don't know. The comparison still doesn't make sense to me. The Board of visitors is much like a board of trustees and serves in a similar capacity. And its not restricted to the USMA either. Most universities have them in some form. Even in India.

Neither does the USMAPS-USMA comparison. The USMAPS is a prep school in essence. It trains people who are applying to the USMA where they will be commissioned. The best that would fit that mould would be our "sainik schools".

The INDU on the other hand seems to aim for much loftier goals.

From a MoD release(http://mod.nic.in/pressreleases/content.asp?id=192):

The Committee has recommended that the Administrative HQrs of INDU is to be Delhi or the NCR, as is the case for the NDUs in Washington, D.C., and Beijing.

INDU is proposed to be an Institution of National Importance. Consequently, it will be established by an Act of Parliament. In view of this requirement, the MoD is taking necessary action in this regard. A Steering Committee is being constituted for this purpose. The INDU is expected to commence functioning as soon as this legislation is enacted.

The Committee has recommended that the President of the INDU be a serving three-star officer of the armed services, in conformity with existing NDUs in the US and China. The Vice-President of the INDU will be an officer from the Foreign Service, as is the case in the NDUs in the US.

The Committee has recommended that the INDU will comprise existing institutions, as well as involve the setting up of new institutions. Three existing Colleges/Institutions are to be brought under its umbrella. One of the existing institutions will be upgraded. Three new Colleges/Institutions are recommended to be created for education and research on national security and technological issues. As part of these new Colleges/Institutions, the Committee has recommended a new "think tank" for defence and security issues, with a focus on policy-oriented research. The recommendations also include the provision for the establishment of a War Gaming and Simulation Centre.

The INDU is to accord recognition by awarding degrees, short-term diplomas, and credits for courses undertaken by both serving personnel from the armed forces, paramilitary forces, and officers from various civil services and agencies.

Its more a super-NDC than super-NDA from what I can see.

And the location of visited foreign universities points to the model being more the National Defense University (at DC) than the USMA at West Point.

 

[Rage]

rage,

I don't know. The comparison still doesn't make sense to me. The Board of visitors is much like a board of trustees and serves in a similar capacity. And its not restricted to the USMA either. Most universities have them in some form. Even in India.

Neither does the USMAPS-USMA comparison. The USMAPS is a prep school in essence. It trains people who are applying to the USMA where they will be commissioned. The best that would fit that mould would be our "sainik schools".

The INDU on the other hand seems to aim for much loftier goals.

From a MoD release(http://mod.nic.in/pressreleases/content.asp?id=192):


Its more a super-NDC than super-NDA from what I can see.

And the location of visited foreign universities points to the model being more the National Defense University (at DC) than the USMA at West Point.

Kautilya,

The use of the phrase 'West point model' was apparently quoted from a Defence Ministry official by a Chinese news agency and subsequently reproduced in several other sources- Indian and otherwise. Details are scarce and hard to come by, and the few that I could glean were mostly from educated guesses by a retired Army colonel that now serves as a security concierge at my college. To be sure, every University has a board of trustees, but I am unaware of a supervisory board for any US military academy other than the USMA that impanels Senators, Congressional Representatives, and presidential appointees- or for that matter one in India that has a permanent standing committee comprising members of Parliament. And while the USMAPS is certainly a preparatory school in essence, it is not one that would be called a 'normal' preparatory school, for candidates at the USMAPS are candidates that have already been considered qualified and eligible for the USMA, but were not selected due to space or other constraints.

The first part of your highlighted MoD release only seems to draw a parallel between the INDU and other national defense universities in the States and China based on the fact that they are located in (or in the vicinity of) the national capital region. I am not sure that that is sufficient criteria however to determine that the INDU will be based more on the NDU than on the USMA.

The third paragraph of the MoD release also seems to suggest another parallel: that the President of the INDU will be a serving three-star officer of the armed services, in conformity with existing NDUs in the US and China. However, in recent memory, all the commanding officers (or 'Superintendents' as they are called) of the USMA have also always been three star officers: serving Lieutenant Generals with the US Army, although this is not a stringent requirement.

The provisions for the establishment of a War Gaming and Simulation Centre, and the focus on policy oriented research however are interesting, and do seem to suggest that the proposed INDU would be more akin to the NDC than the NDA.

I suppose time will be the judge...

 

[Pintu]

Well Said Rage. I agree you that future will tell.

 

[kautilya]

I suppose time will be the judge...

True. Interesting exercise though. I got to learn a lot about the USMA in the bargain.

 

[threadbrowser]

I wonder if we have anything like the US's excellent NTC in India?

 

[Auberon]

I wonder if we have anything like the US's excellent NTC in India?

No, not that I am aware of, they have excercises of similar nature and various training centres but no single integrated fixed range of that magnitude.