IN Scorpene Submarines - News & Discussions

[akshay m]

India's first Scorpene submarine is now in water

This is the first good news for India's fast depleting submarine fleet in a long time. The first of the six Scorpene attack submarines being built at Mumbai's Mazagon Docks Ltd (MDL), under transfer of technology from France's DCNS, is now floating in the water.

This is an indication that the delivery of the submarines, delayed by over four years, is finally on track. The revised deadline for the delivery of the first Scorpene to the Indian Navy is September 2016. Thereafter, the delivery of the subsequent five has been promised at the rate of one every nine months.

A submarine is assembled in dry dock. Floating it in water is an indication that it's in an advanced stage of completion. In technical terminology, this marks the "launch" of the submarine.

"Both the pressure and the outer hull of the first Scorpene are in place. Much of the internal fit is also progressing well. The submarine will now be placed on a pontoon, and tugged out of MDL docks to the nearby Indian Navy Dock. This will free one precious submarine-building dock at MDL, and thus help in meeting deadlines for subsequent Scorpenes. The remaining work on the first submarine, in particular the fitment of batteries, will be done in the Naval Dock," a highly-placed source in the Indian Navy disclosed to The Sunday Guardian.

After the fitment is complete in the Naval Dock, the first Scorpene will be put through harbour trials. Once it clears the harbour trials, the boat will head for sea trials, during which its weapons firing capability will also be validated, before finally being inducted as a warship.

The Scorpene is one of the world's most advanced and stealthy diesel-electrical submarines. It will be armed with Exocet missiles and Black Shark torpedoes.

This marks a desperately-needed relief for the Indian Navy, which has lost five submarines in the last 15 years due to decommissioning or phase-out and accident, but not added a single new conventional submarine.

The Sunday Guardian had reported last week the retirement of INS Sindhurakshak, a Kilo class submarine, which suffered a catastrophic on-board explosion, rendering another blow to India's underwater strength. The number of conventional submarines is down to 13, of which three are in life extension refit. Another six are due for similar life extensions. Due to the critically-low force levels, these will be spared only after the Scorpenes start coming in.

A recent CAG performance audit has brought out the desperation. It disclosed that the operational availability of submarines is as low as 50% of those not in elaborate repair or refit.

The only addition to India's underwater fleet in nearly 15 years was a nuclear-powered Akula class attack submarine, codenamed INS Chakra, in 2012. This has been taken on a 10-year lease from Russia.

To maintain minimum numbers of conventional submarines, India embarked on a 30-year programme in 1999 to build 24 submarines. The programme is alarmingly behind schedule. The contract for the Scorpenes, which were to be the first element, was signed in 2005. The first submarine was scheduled to be delivered in 2012, but is now over four years behind schedule. Timeline slippages also led to heavy cost escalation from the initially contracted Rs 18,798 crore to Rs 23,562 crore.

Because of the huge delay in the Scorpenes and then in deciding on a second line of submarines, the Indian Navy has already obtained government approval for converting the requirement for six of the 24 conventional submarines into nuclear-powered ones (SSNs) akin to the leased INS Chakra. This is also significant from the point of view of increasing forays by Chinese nuclear submarines in waters close to India.

These six nuclear submarines will be built indigenously at the strategic Ship Building Complex in Vizag. Unlike a conventional diesel-electric submarine, which needs to resurface after every few days to recharge its batteries, a nuclear submarine can stay submerged for months, giving added stealth, lethality and sea denial capability. Only five other countries besides India have the capability to operate nuclear submarines.

In addition to these attack submarines, both conventional and nuclear, India has laboured for long to indigenously produce a fleet of nuclear-powered, nuclear-missile firing submarines to provide the missing third leg of the triad of nuclear weapons, which can be fired from land, air and under the sea. The first of these, the Arihant, is now undergoing sea trials.
http://http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/indias-first-scorpene-submarine-is-now-in-water

 

[Punya Pratap]

India's first Scorpene submarine is now in water

Good piece akshay now I wonder what shall be the break up?? Would it be as below:

24 Total subs
18 conventional - 6 scorpene's + 6 P71 (i) & I wonder whether the remaining 6 will be 3 each of P75 / P 75 (i) to retain the know how and TOT acquired through both these projects. I for one would agree!
6 nuclear - 3 or 4 Arihant class SSBN so does it mean the remaining will be the 2 Chakras SSN's or are going to make our own versions?

INPUTS NEEDED FOR THE ABOVE!

 

[grampiguy]

Good piece akshay now I wonder what shall be the break up?? Would it be as below:

24 Total subs
18 conventional - 6 scorpene's + 6 P71 (i) & I wonder whether the remaining 6 will be 3 each of P75 / P 75 (i) to retain the know how and TOT acquired through both these projects. I for one would agree!
6 nuclear - 3 or 4 Arihant class SSBN so does it mean the remaining will be the 2 Chakras SSN's or are going to make our own versions?

INPUTS NEEDED FOR THE ABOVE!

Six SSNs which were approved recently by the CCS are proposed ones, to be built in India. They do not include INS Arihant class or INS Chakra or its variants on lease from Russia. The requirement for SSN is quite significant in Indian Navy.

 

[Punya Pratap]

Six SSNs which were approved recently by the CCS are proposed ones, to be built in India. They do not include INS Arihant class or INS Chakra or its variants on lease from Russia. The requirement for SSN is quite significant in Indian Navy.

You mean there will be 4 Arihant class SSBN + 6 SSN's???

 

[grampiguy]

You mean there will be 4 Arihant class SSBN + 6 SSN's???

Nope ! Arihant is only three boat class i.e. S-2, S-3, S-4. Further, larger SSBN boats are not clear yet as the reactor needs are larger and BARC has not made any naval reactor above 100MWt. SSNs are different and they would be produced indigenously as the reactor needs are enough for them. SSNs have different role, for example, SSBN flank protection, Aircraft Carrier protection, sea control etc. They are the backbone of the blue water navy. However, it would be interesting to see which SSN design Navy adheres to.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Good piece akshay now I wonder what shall be the break up?? Would it be as below:

24 Total subs
18 conventional - 6 scorpene's + 6 P71 (i) & I wonder whether the remaining 6 will be 3 each of P75 / P 75 (i) to retain the know how and TOT acquired through both these projects. I for one would agree!
6 nuclear - 3 or 4 Arihant class SSBN so does it mean the remaining will be the 2 Chakras SSN's or are going to make our own versions?

INPUTS NEEDED FOR THE ABOVE!

The 24 submarine plan building refers to the hunter-killer fleet of submarines, i.e. the submarines that are to be used for Anti surface and anti Sub warfare. Strategic submarines are separate, and are not part of this count.

Now, originally, all the 24 attack submarines were to be SSKs. However with the delays, and more importantly the need for long endurance subs for carrier escort duty, the number of SSKs have been reduced to 18, with the balance to be made up of SSNs. Note that these SSNs will perform hunter-killer and land attack roles only.

Now as far as the strategic fleet is concerned, there are 3 Arihant Class SSBNs. The next step is the next gen successor of the Arihant. We are looking at about 6 more ~16,000 ton SSBNs for catering to China.

Thus the total submarine fleet confirmed is roughly 33. Count the two Ackula class SSNs (Nerpa and Iribis) and the number climbs to a very respectable 35. However, my expectation is that it will probably climb higher to around 40-45, if PLAN begins aggressive patrols into the IOR.

 

[bhramos]

Indian Navy's first Scorpene submarine nears completion - Naval Technology

 

[Punya Pratap]

Thanks for the inputs @grampiguy & @DivineHeretic,

However I am a bit confused regarding the number of Arihant class.... as I came across this below given chart which mentions 04 Subs and both of you are saying 03 Subs

Name Pennant Builder Launch Sea Trials Commissioning Status Home port
INS Arihant Shipbuilding Centre Visakhapatnam 26 July 2009 13 December 2014 Late 2015 Under sea-trials Visakhapatnam
INS Aridhaman Shipbuilding Centre Visakhapatnam Mid 2015 Early 2017 TBD Being readied for launch Visakhapatnam
ATV-3 Shipbuilding Centre Visakhapatnam 2016 2019 TBD Planned Visakhapatnam
ATV-4 Shipbuilding Centre Visakhapatnam 2018 2020 TBD Planned Visakhapatnam

I also would like to take your views about the remaining 6 SSK's (P75 = 6 Scorpenes + P75(I) = 6 To Be Decided Total 12 P75 & P 75 (I)

 

[arnabmit]

Thanks for the inputs @grampiguy & @DivineHeretic,

However I am a bit confused regarding the number of Arihant class.... as I came across this below given chart which mentions 04 Subs and both of you are saying 03 Subs

Name Pennant Builder Launch Sea Trials Commissioning Status Home port
INS Arihant Shipbuilding Centre Visakhapatnam 26 July 2009 13 December 2014 Late 2015 Under sea-trials Visakhapatnam
INS Aridhaman Shipbuilding Centre Visakhapatnam Mid 2015 Early 2017 TBD Being readied for launch Visakhapatnam
ATV-3 Shipbuilding Centre Visakhapatnam 2016 2019 TBD Planned Visakhapatnam
ATV-4 Shipbuilding Centre Visakhapatnam 2018 2020 TBD Planned Visakhapatnam

I also would like to take your views about the remaining 6 SSK's (P75 = 6 Scorpenes + P75(I) = 6 To Be Decided Total 12 P75 & P 75 (I)

Not really. ATV S-1 is a land based prototype. Many people confuse this.

ATV S-2 = Arihant
ATV S-3 = Aridhaman
ATV S-4 = not named yet

ATV-2 would be a larger class of SSBN (total 6) with a 150MWe reactor (currently being developed by BARC), which would have 8-12 VLS. Same 150MWe reactor should power 6 SSN (ATV-3) of a new design.

The last 6 SSK of the 18 planned should ideally be built by exercising the +3 options of each of the P-75 & P-75i.

I do hope that BARC finds it in their hearts to put some more research resources on lead bismuth eutectic coolants. Basic research has gone on for long enough!

 

[Punya Pratap]

Not really. ATV S-1 is a land based prototype. Many people confuse this.

ATV S-2 = Arihant
ATV S-3 = Aridhaman
ATV S-4 = not named yet

ATV-2 would be a larger class of SSBN (total 6) with a 150MWe reactor (currently being developed by BARC), which would have 8-12 VLS. Same 150MWe reactor should power 6 SSN (ATV-3) of a new design.

The last 6 SSK of the 18 planned should ideally be built by exercising the +3 options of each of the P-75 & P-75i.

I do hope that BARC finds it in their hearts to put some more research resources on lead bismuth eutectic coolants. Basic research has gone on for long enough!

Thanks for the insight Arnabmit and I too would prefer the remaining SSK's to be 3+3 follow on option of both P75 & P75 (I)

I fervently pray that the IN & the MoD sit down an allocate specific ship building roles to the PSU's and the Pvt Yards to streamline everything.....The IN's objection over MDL's participation in the P75 (I) is based on the fact that they are sitting on a hoch poch orders of not only Scorpenes but also P 15 (A) Destroyers.. all these orders are running way behind schedule.

IMHO I wish Sub building goes to 1 or 2 specific yards who gain expertise and can make them fast as that becomes their core strength. In the same way construction of Destroyers go to 1/2 Yards and they gain expertise with that and so on and so forth. To add to efficiency get the Pvt Yards on the critically required projects to finish them fast. The IN is going through a modernisation and all its ships are being build demestically so now is the need to streamline everything and chart out a future road map!

 

[arnabmit]

There are approx 300 vessels to be build for the navy alone, including 140 major combatant ships within the next decade. Add to that CG vessels and export vessels. So all public and private shipyards would be choc-a-bloc with orders.

P15A was delayed due to delay in LRSAM. Now that it is ready, things are going to speed up drastically. INS Kolkata is already commissioned, INS Kochi in Sea Trials and INS Chennai going through final stages of superstructure assembly. Have a look at INS Chennai:

P15B is also getting build at a break-neck speed. INS Bangalore's keel was laid on 12 October 2013 Have a look:

This is Oct 2013

This is Jan 2014

This is Jan 2015

Things are getting organized from the budgetary front as well, which was the biggest hurdle till date. Govt considering Rs10,000 crore shipbuilding fund - Livemint

I fervently pray that the IN & the MoD sit down an allocate specific ship building roles to the PSU's and the Pvt Yards to streamline everything.....The IN's objection over MDL's participation in the P75 (I) is based on the fact that they are sitting on a hoch poch orders of not only Scorpenes but also P 15 (A) Destroyers.. all these orders are running way behind schedule.

IMHO I wish Sub building goes to 1 or 2 specific yards who gain expertise and can make them fast as that becomes their core strength. In the same way construction of Destroyers go to 1/2 Yards and they gain expertise with that and so on and so forth. To add to efficiency get the Pvt Yards on the critically required projects to finish them fast. The IN is going through a modernisation and all its ships are being build demestically so now is the need to streamline everything and chart out a future road map!

 

[Abhi9]

Sail out of 1st scorpene submarine tomorrow

Parrikar to be present @ MDL tomorrow 2 witness float out of 1st: Project75 (Scorpene) submarine on pontoon.: Tarmak007

 

[Illusive]

Parrikar to attend official floating out of 1st Scorpene submarine

Mumbai, April 5: Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar will be present in Mumbai tomorrow (April 6) for the official 'floating out' of the first Project-75 (Scorpene) submarine on pontoon.
Naval sources told OneIndia that the event will be held at Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL) during Parrikar's visit to its facilities.

"This is part of Raksha Mantri's review programme. He will be briefed by the naval officers of Western Naval Command (WNC) on the status of various ongoing projects at MDL," a defence official said.
Admiral R K Dhowan, Chief of Naval Staff, will be leading a high-level naval delegation on the occasion. Vice Admiral Surinder Pal Singh Cheema had recently taken over the reins of WNC as the Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief (FOC-in-C).
In addition to reviewing the progress of the Project 75, Parrikar is also expected to get an update on the progress of P-15 B class stealth destroyers being built at MDL.
As reported in these columns earlier, six Scorpene-class submarines are currently being built at BDL in collaboration with DCNS, a French company. As per the modified schedules, the first home-grown Scorpene submarine is scheduled to join the Indian naval ranks next year. This after a delay of over was four years.
Interestingly, the then defence minister Arun Jaitley had reviewed Project 75 in August 2014, three months after he took charge.
During his visit, Jaitley had inaugurated the Mazdock Modernisation Project (MMP), which was aimed at propelling the ship-building capabilities.

 

[shekhar]

The 24 submarine plan building refers to the hunter-killer fleet of submarines, i.e. the submarines that are to be used for Anti surface and anti Sub warfare. Strategic submarines are separate, and are not part of this count.
Now, originally, all the 24 attack submarines were to be SSKs. However with the delays, and more importantly the need for long endurance subs for carrier escort duty, the number of SSKs have been reduced to 18, with the balance to be made up of SSNs. Note that these SSNs will perform hunter-killer and land attack roles only.
Now as far as the strategic fleet is concerned, there are 3 Arihant Class SSBNs. The next step is the next gen successor of the Arihant. We are looking at about 6 more ~16,000 ton SSBNs for catering to China.
Thus the total submarine fleet confirmed is roughly 33. Count the two Ackula class SSNs (Nerpa and Iribis) and the number climbs to a very respectable 35. However, my expectation is that it will probably climb higher to around 40-45, if PLAN begins aggressive patrols into the IOR.

But how much time it will take before induction into navy

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Mumbai, April 5: Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar will be present in Mumbai tomorrow (April 6) for the official 'floating out' of the first Project-75 (Scorpene) submarine on pontoon. Naval sources told OneIndia that the event will be held at Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL) during Parrikar's visit to its facilities. "This is part of Raksha Mantri's review programme. He will be briefed by the naval officers of Western Naval Command (WNC) on the status of various ongoing projects at MDL," a defence official said. Admiral R K Dhowan, Chief of Naval Staff, will be leading a high-level naval delegation on the occasion. Vice Admiral Surinder Pal Singh Cheema had recently taken over the reins of WNC as the Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief (FOC-in-C). In addition to reviewing the progress of the Project 75, Parrikar is also expected to get an update on the progress of P-15 B class stealth destroyers being built at MDL. As reported in these columns earlier, six Scorpene-class submarines are currently being built at BDL in collaboration with DCNS, a French company. As per the modified schedules, the first home-grown Scorpene submarine is scheduled to join the Indian naval ranks next year. This after a delay of over was four years. Interestingly, the then defence minister Arun Jaitley had reviewed Project 75 in August 2014, three months after he took charge. During his visit, Jaitley had inaugurated the Mazdock Modernisation Project (MMP), which was aimed at propelling the ship-building capabilities. Oneindia News

Read more at: Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar to attend official floating out of 1st Scorpene submarine - Oneindia

 

[Abhi9]

1st scorpene ready for undocking @Sitanshuk kar

 

[cobra commando]

[tweet]584936985715843073[/tweet]

 

[Abhi9]

INS kalvari

 

[Abhi9]

 

[Ray]

Sea trial starts or so the papers state.

India's 1st Scorpene submarine to set out for sea trials on Monday
http://www.liveindia.in/indias-1st-scorpene-submarine-set-out-sea-trials-monday

However,

India's first Scorpene submarine is now in water

After the fitment is complete in the Naval Dock, the first Scorpene will be put through harbour trials. Once it clears the harbour trials, the boat will head for sea trials, during which its weapons firing capability will also be validated, before finally being inducted as a warship.
http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/indias-first-scorpene-submarine-is-now-in-water