Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

Sancho

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:facepalm:
Bhai please

SEF would get it's ass kicked. It is no match for Rafale. Besides there are already plans for further orders of Rafale. It is also in the contract.
Rafale is not in the tender and since the SPM has a higher value for costs than the MMRCA before, Rafale would hardly be able be L1 with SE MMRCAs included.
Not to mention that it's lost it's technological edge in several areas. Either way, the government is "officially" still considering a foreign fighter under the SPM and you can't deny that.
 

Pandeyji

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Rafale is not in the tender and since the SPM has a higher value for costs than the MMRCA before, Rafale would hardly be able be L1 with SE MMRCAs included.
Not to mention that it's lost it's technological edge in several areas. Either way, the government is "officially" still considering a foreign fighter under the SPM and you can't deny that.
Lage raho
Tym hoge kamyab.... 1 din......
 

Sancho

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Fighting Falcon: The End of an Era?

On November 14, 2017, four decades of continuous production of the Fighting Falcon (F16) ceased at Fort Worth, Texas.1 The facilities are being relocated to South Carolina and would take approximately two years to become fully functional. They will provide maintenance support for the existing fleet of F16s till their phase out. So far, Lockheed Martin, the company that now owns the F16, in conjunction with multiple production lines in Belgium, the Netherlands, Turkey, Japan and South Korea, has delivered 4588 F16s to 26 countries.2...
Read more at:
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spotlights/fighting-falcon-the-end-of-an-era/
 

Sancho

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Lockheed keeps F-16 production line going with Bahrain deal

Bahrain is set to become the first country in the region to operate Lockheed’s F-16 Block 70 aircraft, in a move that will boost the Falcon’s production line.

Last November, Vice President Mike Pence announced the signature of a deal for the sale of 16 F-16s worth over $2.3 billion to the Gulf country, considering it a “big boost for American jobs and security.”...


...The F-16 Block 70 is the newest generation of Fighting Falcon. The core of its configuration (over the Block-50/52) is the AN/APG-83 active electronically-scanned array radar. The latest fourth-gen aircraft combines capability upgrades such as avionics architecture and structural upgrades to extend the life of the aircraft by more than 50 percent beyond that of previous production F-16s...
Read more at:
https://www.defensenews.com/air/201...f-16-production-line-going-with-bahrain-deal/
 

Sancho

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The ecosystem already exists for making and developing the new Gripen in India’
January 24, 2018

Klas Molin, Swedish Ambassador to India, believes that the multi-role warplane Gripen E is the best option for India’s $20-billion single engine fighter jet deal. In an interview with BusinessLine, he said Sweden is supportive of a more equitable and representative UN Security Council (UNSC). Excerpts:

On defence cooperation between India and Sweden, what are the chances of SAAB grabbing the order on India’s single-engine fighter jet deal for its Gripen E?

We are confident that Indian authorities know what they want, and we have every bit of confidence in the Indian selection process. India is taking this initiative in a new and different way, in partnership with the private sector. Sweden, through SAAB, has happily answered a request for more information. I know that those at SAAB know that they have a concept that will work very well in India, and they are already cooperating with several partners in the country. They already have an established group of experienced suppliers. So the ecosystem already exists for making and developing the new Gripen here in India.

But it seems India is having a re-think on the programme, and you are also facing tough competition from the US?

It is for India to decide what India wants and needs. We are ready when India is ready.

Compared to the competition, Gripen is fairly a new fighter, and you have tied up with the Adani Group which has no experience in defence at all …

If you want older technology, then there is an alternative. Gripen is a more modern aircraft. It is now going to its fifth generation. Gripen is also part of a system where aerial defence and surveillance are part of state-of-the-art links and communication. I think sometimes this is overlooked in the discussion. With Gripen, you are looking at a system which will also continue to develop right here in India.

And about tying up with Adani?

The partnership with Adani is not for me to review. These are business decisions, and SAAB also has partnerships with a number of Indian companies in the aviation sector.

What about the issue of transfer of technology (ToT)? Gripen has GE engines, and that may become a conflict of interest with US?

GE engines are very good and concurrently on offer in another aircraft. If they can be offered in one aircraft, I don’t see why they couldn’t be offered in another. The Gripen has been sold or leased in many other countries. The same discussion has taken place then. Swedish authorities have an ongoing discussion with their American counterparts about ToT, licensing and cooperating in third countries. If that didn’t work well, Swedish companies using American technology wouldn’t be able to sell outside Sweden.

Can you tell us something about the meeting between the National Security Advisors (NSAs) held last week?

This is an intergovernmental and interpersonal dialogue. The comments are sensitive and not for me to share. We also have deliberations on topics related to UN and participation in the Security Council. We have always supported reform of the UNSC to make it more equitable and representative...
http://m.thehindubusinessline.com/e...g-the-new-gripen-in-india/article10049919.ece
 

Hari Sud

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It has taken long enough for this debate. Either order it or dump it.
 
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nongaddarliberal

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We should lobby for the f 35 if we're importing a single engine fighter. They won't open an assembly line for it here, but at least we will get a 5th gen fighter (somewhat), from which we can reverse engineer a lot of technology for AMCA.
 

Pandeyji

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@Sancho assuming a SEF ever occurs, which one among these two fighters would be good enough for our Air-force?
 

Sancho

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Indonesia might buy a batch of new F-16Vs.
Could include an upgrade, but there are also replacements under consideration, with EF, Gripen and other medium class fighters.

@Sancho assuming a SEF ever occurs, which one among these two fighters would be good enough for our Air-force?
which one among these two fighters would be good enough for our Air-force?

Getting a modern multi role fighter with high manoeuvrability, AESA radar, IRST, advanced EW capabilities and weapons, was a key to shortlist EF and Rafale in the MMRCA tender.
In the SE MMRCA, only Gripen E offers similar advantages. If you add the prospects for tech transfer and industrial benefits for our aviation industry, there is only one choice:

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ighter-jet-contest.78028/page-93#post-1382014


But times have changed and political deals are more important, than the best for our forces. That's why I wouldn't rule out the F16 yet.
 
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Sancho

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Babloo Singh

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Out of personal interest, I am working on a general fighter comparison, based on a rating system for certain capabilities or techs (airframe or engine features, electronic system and capabilities). Would be interested in suggestions, which other capabilities are important to compare, or how to rate flight performances for example.


Something like this:
http://up.picr.de/31636562eq.png

@gadeshi @asianobserve @Tactical Frog @Adioz @proud_indian @WolfPack86
My suggestions
a. Include Infra Red Signature too along with RCS
b. Hard points available for weapons should be considered.
c. Instead of fuel capacity consider range.
d. Weapons available/integrated should have some weight.
 

Sancho

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My suggestions
a. Include Infra Red Signature too along with RCS
Problem with that is, that you don't get reliable figures to say which fighter has what signature. You can only estimate, that by size, the used materials and features like air ducts, the Gripen might be harder to detect. I try to get a base with varyfiable capabilities, that anybody should be able to rate and that could be adopted for any fighter, with publicly available infos.

b. Hard points available for weapons should be considered.
Have that and set 11 stations or more as the top rating, 9 weapon + 1 pod station as the standard for a modern swing role config.

c. Instead of fuel capacity consider range.
True, but the Ferry range would be the only comparable one, since it's generally measured under similar conditions (optimal flight path, maximum internal and external fuel). But one has to set limits for the rating. Maybe > 3500Km = 3 points, 3000Km = 2, < 3000Km = 1

d. Weapons available/integrated should have some weight.
I am updating my mission configs, to compare how many weapons and fuel each fighter carries in a certain mission. Which might be better to rate the fighter, otherwise you would rate the weapons with each other.
But here again, the issue is setting limits what an average, good or very good load would be, for every mission.

For example strike with 1000lb LGBs

Gripen E
2 x WVR + 3 × BVR
2 x fuel tanks
2 x LGB
1 x LDP

Which is a standard swing role config for modern fighters today.
F16 without CFTs would carry the same, with CFTs and centerline tank, it could carry up to 4 LGBs.

An MKI in similar configs, up to 7, while any fighter that can't carry the standard load, not get a rating at all. Gripen C for example:

2 x WVR
2 x fuel tanks
2 x LGB
1 x LDP

No BVR missiles and therfore dependent on escorts.

Thanks will think about that, will be happy to hear more suggestions, from you or others.
 

WolfPack86

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Out of personal interest, I am working on a general fighter comparison, based on a rating system for certain capabilities or techs (airframe or engine features, electronic system and capabilities). Would be interested in suggestions, which other capabilities are important to compare, or how to rate flight performances for example.


Something like this:
http://up.picr.de/31636562eq.png

@gadeshi @asianobserve @Tactical Frog @Adioz @proud_indian @WolfPack86
Lets compare 4th generation fighters which have 5th generation capabilities with actual 5th generation fighters like SU-57, F-22 raptor and Chinese J-20 fighter jet.
 

Sancho

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Lets compare 4th generation fighters which have 5th generation capabilities
I am aiming on using the same criteria as the Base for any kind of fighter, but at the end of the day, either you are a stealth fighter or you don't. The stealth design is simply a too big advantage, to compare it realistically to non stealth fighters.

Still trying to find more info's on the Block 70 RWR and jammer, if someone has a source, please post the link!
 

asianobserve

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Out of personal interest, I am working on a general fighter comparison, based on a rating system for certain capabilities or techs (airframe or engine features, electronic system and capabilities). Would be interested in suggestions, which other capabilities are important to compare, or how to rate flight performances for example.


Something like this:
http://up.picr.de/31636562eq.png

@gadeshi @asianobserve @Tactical Frog @Adioz @proud_indian @WolfPack86
Some important fighter metrics:

1. RCS & IR signature
2. Avionics & sensors
3. Combat payload
4. Combat range
5. No. of integrated weapons
 

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