Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

[WolfPack86]

I don't know why but I like F-16 very much :biggrin2:. These machines have proven themselves from the times of Dogfight to the time of AESA Beyond Visual Threat and multirole capabilities. These have shot down a lot of russian made jets.

I also like F-16 Fighter Jets. It recently defeated F-35 Fighter Jet in Dogfight.

 

[WolfPack86]

It May Be A While Before Govt's Plan To Build Fighter Jets In India Take Off
The government’s plan to manufacture single-engine fighters in the country is likely to face delays even though the Defence Ministry has notified request for information (RFI) from three firms to participate in the program under the ‘Make in India’ initiative.
US aerospace giants Boeing and Lockheed Martin and Sweden’s SAAB have approached the government as a response to the RFI with their “unsolicited proposals” that have apparently failed to “impress” the Defence Ministry, a senior official told BusinessLine.
This is because, even though these companies have enumerated their plans to manufacture these jets under the ‘Make in India’ program, the Ministry is keen on plans to transform India into an export hub for these jets, the official said.
Once the RFI is issued, the government floats Request for Proposals (RFPs) to shortlist the competing firms, according to norms. However, the government is learnt to be taking one step at a time in selecting the firm that will finally be chosen to manufacture the fighter jets here.
“The RFP will take time to be issued. A lot of factors need to be ascertained here apart from Make in India, logistics, and infrastructure. The issue here is that once the armed forces buy these, what thereafter? Hence, export is a big factor, and indigenisation will play a crucial part in it,” the official said.
Boeing has already offered to manufacture their F/A-18 Super Hornet here with full transfer of technology (ToT) to their Indian joint venture partners. Lockheed Martin has gone a step ahead and said it will develop a warplane F-16 Block 70 exclusively for the Indian market. The US government is also aggressively pushing for these two under the US-India Defence Trade and Technology Initiative.
On the other side, Swedish SAAB has said it will build an entire industrial ecosystem in India under ‘Make in India’ for the Gripen E. Talks on selling the Gripen E were held during the visit of Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven to India in February.
Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha had earlier said that the proposals from these three firms had been received by the government but nothing had been decided. “An early decision on indigenous ‘Make in India’ fighter aircraft project will greatly enhance our operational capability in the near term,” he had said during the Air Force Day earlier this month.
The Defence Ministry plans to replace the aging MiG-21s with these fighter jets. Last month, India had finalized a $8.7-billion deal to procure 36 French Rafale warplanes.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/10/it-may-be-while-before-govts-plan-to.html

 

[Hari Sud]

It May Be A While Before Govt's Plan To Build Fighter Jets In India Take Off
The government’s plan to manufacture single-engine fighters in the country is likely to face delays even though the Defence Ministry has notified request for information (RFI) from three firms to participate in the program under the ‘Make in India’ initiative.
US aerospace giants Boeing and Lockheed Martin and Sweden’s SAAB have approached the government as a response to the RFI with their “unsolicited proposals” that have apparently failed to “impress” the Defence Ministry, a senior official told BusinessLine.
This is because, even though these companies have enumerated their plans to manufacture these jets under the ‘Make in India’ program, the Ministry is keen on plans to transform India into an export hub for these jets, the official said.
Once the RFI is issued, the government floats Request for Proposals (RFPs) to shortlist the competing firms, according to norms. However, the government is learnt to be taking one step at a time in selecting the firm that will finally be chosen to manufacture the fighter jets here.
“The RFP will take time to be issued. A lot of factors need to be ascertained here apart from Make in India, logistics, and infrastructure. The issue here is that once the armed forces buy these, what thereafter? Hence, export is a big factor, and indigenisation will play a crucial part in it,” the official said.
Boeing has already offered to manufacture their F/A-18 Super Hornet here with full transfer of technology (ToT) to their Indian joint venture partners. Lockheed Martin has gone a step ahead and said it will develop a warplane F-16 Block 70 exclusively for the Indian market. The US government is also aggressively pushing for these two under the US-India Defence Trade and Technology Initiative.
On the other side, Swedish SAAB has said it will build an entire industrial ecosystem in India under ‘Make in India’ for the Gripen E. Talks on selling the Gripen E were held during the visit of Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven to India in February.
Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha had earlier said that the proposals from these three firms had been received by the government but nothing had been decided. “An early decision on indigenous ‘Make in India’ fighter aircraft project will greatly enhance our operational capability in the near term,” he had said during the Air Force Day earlier this month.
The Defence Ministry plans to replace the aging MiG-21s with these fighter jets. Last month, India had finalized a $8.7-billion deal to procure 36 French Rafale warplanes.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/10/it-may-be-while-before-govts-plan-to.html

Yellow journalism argues on both side of the equation. One side argues for F-16, the other side argues for Gripen. Then the blogs take over, foul mouthing everything. These blogs are manned by arms dealer's paid agents, who spend time faulting the other. Hence a confusion galore. That is the state today of this acquisition.

 

[WolfPack86]

Yellow journalism argues on both side of the equation. One side argues for F-16, the other side argues for Gripen. Then the blogs take over, foul mouthing everything. These blogs are manned by arms dealer's paid agents, who spend time faulting the other. Hence a confusion galore. That is the state today of this acquisition.

If we keep pointing finger with each other. Then we won't enough fighters jets to counter to China and Pakistan.Presently India does not have enough fighters. I too don't like media but no can change way media function. India's National Security more important than any thing. Tejas has been delayed tejas is good fighter but HAL is slow and lazy. We already buying 120 tejas we will buy another 100 tejas based on performance. Indian Air Force desperatly need more fighters I know we have upgraded MIG 29 and Mirage 2000. But after 2030 we will retire both of these aicraft. Which ever best aircraft let govt select aircraft. Why should we bothered about these articles. I love to see 300 Tejas Mk1 A in Indian Air Force Service. We need to have private company to manufacture Tejas MK1 A. But HAL is giving stiff resistance to this idea. This is the reason why govt is going for another single engine fighter jets. Govt should force HAL to give another Tejas line to private company.

 

[WolfPack86]

India will spend an additional $12bn for the 'Make In India' Fighter Jet Project

India needs new fighter jets, and the world's leading manufacturers are lining up to provide them.

The South Asian nation's government has sent letters to several companies regarding a new fleet of military aircraft, to be jointly produced with local firms. A potential deal, according to experts, could be worth up to $12 billion.

"India is looking at paying $65 to $80 million per aircraft for 150 aircraft," says Ben Moores, a defense and aviation analyst at IHS Jane's. The country faces an elevated sticker price for the fighters because government rules require most of the manufacturing to take place in India.

The requirement, which is part of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's "Make in India" initiative, is believed to have been a roadblock in India's most recent military aircraft deal with France.

That deal, which originally called for French company Dassault to supply the Indian air force with 126 Rafale fighters, underwent lengthy negotiations due to disputes over the local production clause.

Under the final terms of the sale agreed by India and France last month, India will only get 36 jets.

Other companies appear more than ready to fill the gap. U.S. manufacturer Lockheed Martin and Sweden's Saab are the leading contenders.

"We are prepared to provide a solution under the 'Make in India' program," said Saab spokesman Sebastian Carlsson, who confirmed that the company has received the Indian government's letter.

Carlsson touted his company's deal to supply Brazil with its Gripen fighters as a blueprint for a potential agreement with India. Saab is transferring technology to local firms as part of the deal, and is even training Brazilian engineers.

It's "an example of the way we like to do business," Carlsson said. He added that Saab was preparing an official response to India's letter.

Lockheed Martin (LMT) has gone a step further, offering to make India the sole global manufacturing hub for its F-16 fighter if offered the deal.

"Exclusive F-16 production in India would make India home to the world's only F-16 production facility," said Abhay Paranjape, Lockheed's national executive for business development in India. "None of our competitors can offer that."

Paranjape said the company, which has received and responded to the government's letter, envisions "a joint venture model with Indian industry as prime owner."

While India appears to have begun the procurement process in earnest, past instances suggest a final deal — especially of the magnitude being discussed — will be anything but straightforward.

"There might be a strategic eagerness for modern aircraft but the reality is that bureaucratic hurdles and state owned industrial self-interest outweigh the requirement urgency," says Moores. "If India can sign a deal and make it stick that will be impressive in its own right."
http://defencenews.in/article/India...r-the-Make-In-India-Fighter-Jet-Project-28897

 

[WolfPack86]

India Will Spend An Additional $ 12 Billion For The 'Make In India' Fighter Jet Project

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Question is how long before they finalise the deal and whether they will conduct another round of trials.

 

[indiazain]

why are they not considering f35.
I know it currently has a few glitches here and there .and it is a whole lot pricier.
But imagine having a production line for that in India. Porkis are already pissing in their pants (f16 block 70).
Now its the time for chinese to be taught a big lesson

 

[republic_roi97]

why are they not considering f35.
I know it currently has a few glitches here and there .and it is a whole lot pricier.

Considering F-35 for IAF, will give a setback to FGFA/AMCA which are frontline projects of India and second thing India wants its aircrafts to be produced in India,

But,

But imagine having a production line for that in India.

That is another setback because, F-35 would never be produced in India, we have to buy them off the shelf or have them customised to shoot our weapons but a strict no to Make in india.

Therefore, F-16 would not only act as a stop gap solution for us, but lockheed will shift the production to india, hence, a push for Make in India, we'll have it customised as well as have the spares produced locally in India. And the Block 70/72 is the most advanced single engine multirole fighter out there of its generation, its a sweet deal for India. Imagine 200 F-16 block 70/72 replacing our Mig-21s flying alongside Tejas Mk1A all with BVR and AESA, this will not just be a huge power increment for IAF but a "niagra-fall-like-piss" in pants of porkies and chinese.

 

[BON PLAN]

Wait for the block 100 ....
This wonderfull 20th century plane is heavier and heavier, but with always the same wings. At the end it will be only a rocket !

Gripen NG is far more efficient. younger, lighter, smarter.

 

[WolfPack86]

"India is looking at paying $65 to $80 million per aircraft for 150 aircraft. F-16 is cheaper than Gripen NG

 

[WolfPack86]

India could host the only F-16 Production Facility in the World :: PAF in trouble

American aerospace giant Lockheed Martin has confirmed that the exclusive manufacturing of fighter F-16 jets in India would make it home to the world’s only F-16 production facility.

This was expressed by Abhay Paranjape, Lockheed’s national executive for business development in India who opined that the production would give a tough time to the competitors who simply could not offer that.

Paranjape said the company, which has received and responded to the government’s letter, envisions “a joint venture model with Indian industry as prime owner.”

While India appears to have begun the procurement process in earnest, past instances suggest a final deal — especially of the magnitude being discussed — will be anything but straightforward.

“There might be a strategic eagerness for modern aircraft but the reality is that bureaucratic hurdles and state-owned industrial self-interest outweigh the requirement urgency,” says Moores. “If India can sign a deal and make it stick that will be impressive in its own right.”

India is in a bid to acquire new fighter jets and efforts are in full swing to ink the deal with France but the only hindrance is Narendra Modi’s “Make in India” initiative.

That deal, which originally called for French company Dassault to supply the Indian air force with 126 Rafale fighters, underwent lengthy negotiations due to disputes over the local production clause. Under the final terms of the sale agreed by India and France last month, India would only get 36 jets.

Other companies appear more than ready to fill the gap. U.S. manufacturer Lockheed Martin and Sweden’s Saab are the leading contenders and India might explore new horizons in this regard.

Saab spokesman Sebastian Carlsson who confirmed receiving India’s letter to the company confirmed firm’s agreement to go on with India’s policy.

“We are prepared to provide a solution under the ‘Make in India’ program” said Saab spokesman Sebastian Carlsson.

India is currently enlisting the technological assistance of international players to jointly produce jets at local level. The potential deal, according to experts, could be worth up to $12 billion.
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=28913

 

[republic_roi97]

Wait for the block 100 ....
This wonderfull 20th century plane is heavier and heavier, but with always the same wings. At the end it will be only a rocket !

Gripen NG is far more efficient. younger, lighter, smarter.

Not smarter, yes new design but electronically and technologically inferior to block 70/72. But again, Gripen is a good fighter but with F-16 we are getting everything produced in India, hence, no spare problem.

 

[BON PLAN]

Why do you think US seems (note that : seems) OK to give you the F16 line?

BECAUSE YOU WILL BE THE LAST AND SOLE CUSTOMER OF THIS BIRD !!!

It was a very nice bird, but it was before. Its time is over.

And what about radar? do you really think US will give you a 100% access to AESA US radar ?

same with engine and electronic measures.

 

[BON PLAN]

Not smarter, yes new design but electronically and technologically inferior to block 70/72. But again, Gripen is a good fighter but with F-16 we are getting everything produced in India, hence, no spare problem.

block 70 ? do you really knows what is a block 70'F16 ?

The frame is a 40 years old one. with quite no composite. no stealth. now too much heavy for the (small) wings.

 

[republic_roi97]

Why do you think US seems (note that : seems) OK to give you the F16 line?

BECAUSE YOU WILL BE THE LAST AND SOLE CUSTOMER OF THIS BIRD !!!

It was a very nice bird, but it was before. Its time is over.

And what about radar? do you really think US will give you a 100% access to AESA US radar ?

same with engine and electronic measures.

Do you know that many countries use F-16s ?, Do you know that all planes need maintenance ? Now for maintenance, they need spare parts, that's the job of the production line, we would not just be a customer of F-16 but a supplier of spares and planes to all other nations including europeans.

As for AESA, its a radar, which would be supplied to India by US, just for the sake of continuing the production of F-16. They stop supporting these equipments, we stop production, simple as that.

 

[republic_roi97]

But again, I am not against Gripen, it does have a newer airframe which makes it a future oriented plane with all sorts of improvements, and if SAAB agrees to GOI and IAF conditions and abide by Make in India, we might have them. But right now, F-16 deal is a better package overall.

 

[BON PLAN]

Do you know that many countries use F-16s ?, Do you know that all planes need maintenance ? Now for maintenance, they need spare parts, that's the job of the production line, we would not just be a customer of F-16 but a supplier of spares and planes to all other nations including europeans.

As for AESA, its a radar, which would be supplied to India by US, just for the sake of continuing the production of F-16. They stop supporting these equipments, we stop production, simple as that.

too simple my dear.
Actually a lot of F16 spares are already made by foreign suppliers....
Do you really think Pakistan (already a US ally. even if it's a little bit cold today), UAE and some others will be OK to see the spares coming from India ? NO.
And if the radar (and surely the engine) is supplied by US :
1) Your "production" line is only an assembly one. Not very interesting.
2) You are dependant of the US. Remember that UAE and Egypt seen their F16 grounded because uncle Sam didn't want them to operate in Lybia..... after that Egypt decided to orger Mig 29 and Rafale. UAE sent Mirage 2000-9 instead.

simple? too simple.

 

[Pandora]

too simple my dear.
Actually a lot of F16 spares are already made by foreign suppliers....
Do you really think Pakistan (already a US ally. even if it's a little bit cold today), UAE and some others will be OK to see the spares coming from India ? NO.
And if the radar (and surely the engine) is supplied by US :
1) Your "production" line is only an assembly one. Not very interesting.
2) You are dependant of the US. Remember that UAE and Egypt seen their F16 grounded because uncle Sam didn't want them to operate in Lybia..... after that Egypt decided to orger Mig 29 and Rafale. UAE sent Mirage 2000-9 instead.

simple? too simple.

Well fanboys of F16 never understand this that even if we produce F 16 ,it really doesn't matter to Pakistan F16 parts procurement as many countries like Turkey whole heartily donate their F 16 not to forget arab world.

 

[WolfPack86]

Well fanboys of F16 never understand this that even if we produce F 16 ,it really doesn't matter to Pakistan F16 parts procurement as many countries like Turkey whole heartily donate their F 16 not to forget arab world.

India could host the only F-16 Production Facility in the World :: PAF in trouble
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=28913
Even if Turkey gives F-16 to Pakistan that will be second hand. If lockheed martin replace old air frame of F-16 fighter into new air frame it will be great but it will take time.