High Cost of US weapon systems- for instance Harpoons?

[Neil]

Hence the huge labour cost. You need to know why the Americans and the Europeans are keen to enter Indian production lines. It is because of low labour costs here. An F 18 built in US costs $80 mil a peice but the same built in India costs $ 50 mil a peice.

dude....u think that their govt will allow them to shift manufacturing facilities to other countries....??what will Americans or the Europeans do if this factories shift to India...?? sit at home....!!??

US materials are high priced but they also come with superb quality...and its this quality that speaks in war and international market....i mean how many have u heard F-16 going down in pakistan or US....??!none to my knowledge.....[i stand corrected]

 

[Armand2REP]

US materials are high priced but they also come with superb quality...and its this quality that speaks in war and international market....i mean how many have u heard F-16 going down in pakistan or US....??!none to my knowledge.....[i stand corrected]

F-16s crash every month. Nothing special about American quality... just look at their cars.

 

[wild goose]

US bags million-dollar defence deals


The US is winning millions of dollars of orders from the Indian defence forces after demonstrating new weapons in joint exercises with the Indian Army, Navy and Air Force.

The Indian Army has now decided to make an outright purchase of several hundred Javelin anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM) that were demonstrated for the first time in the largest war game that the two armies have held.

Executives of the company that makes the weapon, Raytheon Corporation, were present at Yudh Abhyas 09 in Babina, a range of the Indian Army's armoured corps in Madhya Pradesh. The US army demonstrated how the shoulder-fired weapon is used.

"We have sent a Letter of Request to the US government. We want to procure the Javelin ATGMs with an agreement for transfer of technology," a defence ministry source said. The price of the missiles is still being negotiated.

But an armoured corps officer said it the Javelin was easily the most expensive anti-tank missile in the global market. The Indian Army has so far used the Milan anti-tank missiles that are made in India with French collaboration.

The Indian Air Force also decided to buy the C-130J Hercules and the C-17 Globemaster III aircraft after putting them through trials but after first witnessing their performance in joint drills and during visits of senior officials.

The Indian Navy bought the USS Trenton, now christened the INS Jalashva, after it was given a demonstration in the Mediterranean during the Israel-Hizbollah war of 2006.

Defence ministry sources have said the Indian government is buying the Javelin missiles through a mechanism of the Pentagon that bypasses the need for competition.

"We have sent a Letter of Request to the US government. We want to procure the Javelin ATGMs along with an agreement for transfer of technology," a defence ministry source said.


US bags million-dollar defence deals

 

[SATISH]

dude....u think that their govt will allow them to shift manufacturing facilities to other countries....??what will Americans or the Europeans do if this factories shift to India...?? sit at home....!!??

US materials are high priced but they also come with superb quality...and its this quality that speaks in war and international market....i mean how many have u heard F-16 going down in pakistan or US....??!none to my knowledge.....[i stand corrected]

Well the capitalistic Mil-Ind comlex is more inclined towards money and mass producttion at cheaper labour rates can help bring down costs and make the weapon system more competitive. Airbus and Boeing Fuelages, tails, doors and all are made in India bringing the costs lower and more affordable. And F 16 is nicknamed as "lawn dart" by the USAF. The US Mil-Ind complex must bring down costs or else they will lose out to the other emerging competitors. This is not the 1980s, there are a lot more players now. So they have to give in competitive rates to sustain their own company.

First of all the company must exist to provide jobs. If the company goes bankrupt then it cant be helped.

 

[civfanatic]

I disagree with that sir. I think a PAK-FA will cost $200 mil a peice and FGFA will be atleast $150 mil a peice.

It was my understanding that the Indo-Russian FGFA would be the two-seat, multirole version of the PAK-FA, which is a single-seat, air superiority fighter. In other words, the FGFA is to the PAK-FA what the Su-30MKI is to the Su-27.

Wouldn't this make the FGFA more expensive than the PAK-FA?
Please correct me if I am mistaken.

 

[plugwater]

It was my understanding that the Indo-Russian FGFA would be the two-seat, multirole version of the PAK-FA, which is a single-seat, air superiority fighter. In other words, the FGFA is to the PAK-FA what the Su-30MKI is to the Su-27.

Wouldn't this make the FGFA more expensive than the PAK-FA?
Please correct me if I am mistaken.

FGFA will be made in India and Pakfa in Russia. So by that logic FGFA will be cheaper than Pakfa.

 

[Agantrope]

FGFA will be made in India and Pakfa in Russia. So by that logic FGFA will be cheaper than Pakfa.

BY logic FGFA is not yet designed, Desgin cost cost escalation issues are there, so obviously there is a possiblity that FGFA might costs more than PAKFA made in India

 

[LETHALFORCE]

USA is doing a TOT on javelin? Can anyone confirm this good news?

 

[plugwater]

BY logic FGFA is not yet designed, Desgin cost cost escalation issues are there, so obviously there is a possiblity that FGFA might costs more than PAKFA made in India

We are talking about cost of one FGFA vs cost of one Pakfa and i dont think pakfa will be made in India.

 

[Agantrope]

We are talking about cost of one FGFA vs cost of one Pakfa and i dont think pakfa will be made in India.

We are going to buy some handsome numbers, so few will be made in India as like Su-30MK before MKI

 

[SATISH]

It was my understanding that the Indo-Russian FGFA would be the two-seat, multirole version of the PAK-FA, which is a single-seat, air superiority fighter. In other words, the FGFA is to the PAK-FA what the Su-30MKI is to the Su-27.

Wouldn't this make the FGFA more expensive than the PAK-FA?
Please correct me if I am mistaken.

PAK FA is built in Russia and FGFA in India...there is a difference.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

DSCA notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to India of C-130J Aircraft

WASHINGTON, May 25 2007 - The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to India of C-130J Aircraft as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $1,059 million. The Government of India has requested a possible sale of:

6 Lockheed Martin C-130J United States Air Force (USAF) baseline aircraft including USAF baseline equipment

4 Rolls Royce AE 2100D3 spare engines

8 AAR-47 Missile Warning Systems (two of them spares)

8 AN/ALR-56M Advanced Radar Warning Receivers (two of them spares)

8 AN/ALE-47 Counter-Measures Dispensing Systems (two of them spares)

8 AAQ-22 Star SAFIRE III Special Operations Suites (two of them spares)

8 ALQ-211 Suite of Integrated Radio Frequency Countermeasures (two of them spares)

2 spare AN/ARC-210 Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio Systems (SINCGARS)

8 spare Secure Voice Very High Frequency/Ultra High Frequency Radios

4 spare Secure Voice High Frequency Radios

3 spare AN/AAR-222 SINCGARS and Key Gen (KV-10) Systems

1 KIV-119 Non-standard Communication/COMSEC equipment

2 ARC-210 Non-standard Communication/COMSEC equipment

Also included are spare and repair parts, configuration updates, communications security equipment and radios, integration studies, support equipment, publications and technical documentation, technical services, personnel training and training equipment, foreign liaison office support, Field Service Representatives' services, U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics personnel services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $1,059 million.

This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of an important partner and to strengthen the U.S.-India strategic relationship, which continues to be an important force for political stability, peace, and economic progress in South Asia.

India and the United States are forging an important strategic partnership. The proposed sale will enhance the foreign policy and national security objectives of the U.S. by providing the Indian Government with a credible special operations airlift capability that will deter aggression in the region, provide humanitarian airlift capability and ensure interoperability with U.S. forces in coalition operations.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not affect the basic military balance in the region. The principal contractors will be: Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, Texas and Rolls- Royce Corporation in Indianapolis, Indiana. Offset agreements associated with this proposed sale are expected, but at this time the specific offset agreements are undetermined and will be defined in negotiations between the purchaser and contractors.

Implementation of this proposed sale may require the assignment of 10 each U.S. Government and contractor representatives in India for a periodic of up to two weeks.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale. This notice of a potential sale is required by law; it does not mean that the sale has been concluded.

DSCA - Defense Security Cooperation Agency
FMS - Foreign Military Sale
SINCGARS - SINgle Channel Ground and Air Radio System
USAF - United States Air Force

 

[Raj Malhotra]

WASHINGTON, March 28 (Reuters) - Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N: Quote, Profile, Research) has been awarded a $596 million Air Force contract for work on six C-130J aircraft destined for India, the Defense Department announced Friday.

India is buying the aircraft through the U.S. government's foreign military sales program. The Lockheed C-130 Hercules is an American four-engine turboprop military transport aircraft built by Lockheed and the main tactical airlifter for many military forces worldwide. Over 40 models and variants of the Hercules serve with more than 50 nations. In December 2006, the C-130 became the fourth aircraft – after the English Electric Canberra in May 2001, the B-52 Stratofortress in January 2005 and the Tupolev Tu-95 in January 2006 – to mark 50 years of continuous use with its original primary customer, in this case the United States Air Force. The C-130 remains in production as the updated C-130J Super Hercules.

Please note that this is the amount being paid to Lock Martin, the payment to other contractors like for Missile warning systems etc would be seperate

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Note- Some people are giving a spin that Harpoon might be Block 3 or 4 but the FMS notification says that it is Block 2 only.

 

[deepak75]

Every weapon and its numbers in our arsenal needs to be threat specific. And if look at our threats over foreseeable horizon, we need only a few of the Harpoons for retiring total Pakistan Navy. And then there is China but that threat is still a few years away in to actualizing at least on Sea and we have some time still to perfect our indigenous weapon systems and be prepared. So currently buying a few Harpoons even if they are expensive...... I do not mind that.

Afterall the real cost of a weapon is not what you pay for having it........ but rather what you pay for not having it........

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Defintion of FMS = Indian Govt says to US Govt that we are so corrupt that we cannot negotiate our defence deals, so please take 4% commission then double the price and give us some shoddy goods!

 

[keshtopatel]

Boeing to deliver tactical missiles to India

India tied contract with the US to buy 24 tactical missiles Harpoon Block II, reports Economic Times referring to Boeing representative Vivek Lall.

The contract was signed last month under Foreign Military Sales Program with Boeing as a major partner. The missiles are designed for Indian Navy's fighter flight", said Mr. Lall.

Presumable transaction value is $170 mln.

Harpoon Block II missiles are the latest modification of Harpoon antiship missiles which also capable to hit land targets. Depending of launch altitude and flight profile, maximum flight range of those missiles exceeds 120 km. They can be used against small- and medium-size surface ships.

According to Economic Times, missiles will be intended for Jaguar fighters. Alongside with that, it was reported that Harpoon's control equipment might be theoretically placed in Indian patrol aircrafts Il-38 and fighters Su-30MKI and MiG-29.

As for Vivek Lall, so far Boeing has not agreed with India about deliveries of missiles for long-range radar detection aircrafts P-8I.

In Jan 2009 India signed a $ 2.1 bln contract with the U.S. to procure 8 long-range radar detection aircrafts Boeing P-8I for Indian Navy which became the biggest deal in the history of military technical cooperation between the two countries. Up to then, the biggest Indian-American defense contract had been procurement of 6 transport aircrafts C-130 Super Hercules for Indian commandos to the amount of $962 mln.

Boeings will shift obsolete turboprop aircrafts Tu-142M which are presently in service in Indian Navy. American aircrafts will be armed with torpedoes, depth charges, and Harpoon antiship missiles. Indian Navy will obtain the first aircraft late 2012 or early 2013; the rest aircrafts will be delivered within the next three years.

Presently, Soviet/Russian-made aircrafts plus a number of French airplanes form the basis of Indian aviation.

http://rusnavy.com/news/othernavies/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=10190

 

[keshtopatel]

Defintion of FMS = Indian Govt says to US Govt that we are so corrupt that we cannot negotiate our defence deals, so please take 4% commission then double the price and give us some shoddy goods!

Raj, countries like Portugal, Italy, Greece, South Korea, Singapore, Thailand, Egypt, Turkey and more have gone through FMS route avoiding the middle man, so what seems to be the problem here?

 

[Yusuf]

The problem seems to be rhetorical thinking by most indian forumers who can only see corruption at evey stage of anything and then also crib about india not having enough weapons too. Nothing but crib at every single thing that happens and curse the govt. No one seems to want to dig a little more to find out what it means and how beneficial it is to the country.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Lot of these nations don't have option or political mandate to source alternate suppliers apart from USA due to alliance or tied aid or quid quo