HAL Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) and Light Observation Helicopter (LOH)

[johnj]

what does this mean?

Both IA & IAF knows how to make excuses to buy foreign alternatives - in this case - survivability - dual engine is better[ka226] compared to single engine luh - and request more time for extreme tests. Any ways - at the end - luh clear all tests - with a order book around - 350 for ia, iaf , in, in batches. In future hal also consider dual engine version- just a theory considering harsh himalayan, sea & other natural disaster conditions.

 

[Super falcon]

Fablous Indian Defence industry

 

[silverghost]

This thing is so infuriating. Did they not know the capabilities of the helicopter for last 6 years? If they did, then why didn't they ask for improvement before. Now when the time is for orders, these *** ** ******* are dilly dallying. Same goes for LCH. After testing the helicopter, IA Chief said that first they will buy 5-6 helicopters to test and then order it. What the hell were you doing these years? These people will use flying coffins but will not order any indigenous platform. They killed Arjun project and they are going to kill artillery and helicopters too. ****** ****** go **** yourself.

First accept the initial product batch to kickstart manufacturing. Then improve the helicopter in subsequent batches.

Ghar da peer chul da vatta.
Ghar ki murgi daal barabar.

 

[Flying Dagger]

This thing is so infuriating. Did they not know the capabilities of the helicopter for last 6 years? If they did, then why didn't they ask for improvement before. Now when the time is for orders, these *** ** ******* are dilly dallying. Same goes for LCH. After testing the helicopter, IA Chief said that first they will buy 5-6 helicopters to test and then order it. What the hell were you doing these years? These people will use flying coffins but will not order any indigenous platform. They killed Arjun project and they are going to kill artillery and helicopters too. ****** ****** go **** yourself.

First accept the initial product batch to kickstart manufacturing. Then improve the helicopter in subsequent batches.

They need to have helicopters to check them first and provide feedback.

That's why limited lsp is started. Once they go for its trial in varied condition only then they will be able to provide feedback.

And what they want is different from what HAL can produce or provide. That's why the delay happens.

 

[Yodha]

This thing is so infuriating. Did they not know the capabilities of the helicopter for last 6 years? If they did, then why didn't they ask for improvement before. Now when the time is for orders, these *** ** ******* are dilly dallying. Same goes for LCH. After testing the helicopter, IA Chief said that first they will buy 5-6 helicopters to test and then order it. What the hell were you doing these years? These people will use flying coffins but will not order any indigenous platform. They killed Arjun project and they are going to kill artillery and helicopters too. ****** ****** go **** yourself.

First accept the initial product batch to kickstart manufacturing. Then improve the helicopter in subsequent batches.

How good it would have been if things don't cost money but emotions! You'd be the richest man on this planet. When profanities figure out in our speech then we have lost control over our expressions. It happened with me a couple of times and I'm ever apologetic for that to those members. So keep your cool and calm.

Now, to the topic.

Capabilities : Helicopters in our country are mostly made for armed forces and the variating terrain and geographical limitations require custom made solutions. A helicopter is made with requirements in mind. Otherwise an agency will have to make 10 models to sell 1 fitting model for a specific customer. No, capabilities cannot be judged without testing an equipment. How do you validate?

Limited orders : A complex machine requires extensive testing. Lives, performance, mission capabilities and a lot of things are dependant on that machine. Would you directly buy a brand new helicopter in 100s of no.s? Now, the LSP model allows a user to validate and put forward custom requirements which can figure out in a series production. Otherwise it will result in undesired versions that have to be made in the interim for every modification or customisable set.

I'm a pilot and believe me I don't want to die just like that. I don't fancy flying an old helicopter just to die one day.

Extensive requirements : 4 to 5 different user organisations with completely different requirements mandate a complex design. Will you try to get it certified at once or everytime you change some part of the design?

These things will help a platform settle in the long run.

All of the above and you mix Indian politics & bureaucracy with them, you get into such a quagmire.

 

[WolfPack86]

Delays Endless, Now Indian Army Wants To LEASE Light Helicopters
In the latest chapter of its stupefyingly endless quest for critically needed light helicopters, the Indian Army has just sent word official out that it is looking to lease 20 light helicopters for the reconnaissance and surveillance role. The reason why this is absurd is that the Indian Army has been trying for two decades now to procure roughly 200 light helicopters to replace its fleet of old generation French origin Alouette-II and Alouette-III (Cheetah and Chetak) helicopters.

The army has described the target helicopters in almost precisely the same way it has always described the light utility helicopters it has sought to buy for decades — as light multi-utility platforms for reconnaissance, surveillance, armed recce, direction of artillery fire, scout role in conjunction with attack helicopters, aerial photography, airborne forward air controller and more.

While it is early to judge the army’s intentions, given the litany of Indian RFIs that have ended up being worth less than the paper they’re printed on, it is clear that the army feels pushed into a corner by difficult to explain delays in the procurement of such a basic capability. Not only has the Indian Army followed the Indian Air Force into the uncharted realms of leasing military hardware, but looking to lease 20 such helicopters indicates two things right off the bat in the event that this is a genuine quest and not an act of testing waters to see what’s out there. One, that the Army needs a fresh infusion of such helicopters on an urgent basis given a live operational situation in the northern frontiers. And two, that the Army has given up on any early forward movement on two helicopter programs that are intended to meet the army’s full requirement of such helicopters.

Of a total of nearly 400 such helicopters required by the Indian Army and Indian Air Force, HAL’s Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) and the Indo-Russian license built Ka-226T are to supply about half each. While the LUH, despite rapid strides towards a demonstrable operational capability at high altitudes including multiple operational demonstrations in Ladakh, has managed to only land orders for a dozen airframes, six each for the army and IAF, the Indo-Russian joint venture to build the Ka-226T near Bengaluru has remained paralysed for nearly seven years now, with little clarity on whether the Indian government plans to close the loop on a 2015 agreement to build 200 of the helicopters locally.

India’s military standoff with China in the high altitudes of eastern Ladakh that began in 2020 have accelerated defence procurements, but the light helicopter capability remains out in the cold.

The latest Indian Army RFI on the leasing option is only the latest in a saga of dramatic surges and aborts. In 2007 and again 2014, the Indian Army cancelled contests for acquire 197 helicopters. In both contests, Airbus Helicopters (named Eurocopter till 2013) was reported to be in pole position with its AS 550 C3 Fennec offering. A year after the 2014 abort, the Indian government announced in 2015 that HAL and Russia would negotiate a co-production joint venture around the Ka-226T, a program that has all but fallen apart. This would technically be good news for indigenous industry, given that accelerated development and testing of HAL’s LUH had given the Army the option of choosing a single Indian-origin helicopter type to meet the entire requirement of nearly 400 helicopters.

Which is where the prospect of leasing such helicopters is a bolt from the blue. To be sure, industry members indicate that the RFI was expected and that the Army had been sending out feelers for over a year now. That the Army has felt the need to even reveal that it is willing to consider leasing light helicopters establishes that the worst of India’s military procurement impulses have come full circle.

Separately, the Indian Navy’s quest for 111 shipborne naval utility helicopters (NUH) to replace its own Alouette-III helicopters is also on shaky ground. In 2022, after years of doubling down against HAL’s Dhruv helicopter for the naval utility role, the Indian Navy began paperwork to support the procurement of 60 Dhruv MkIII helicopters from HAL, a sizeable enough number to hint at the possibility that the NUH as we know it was on its last legs. But with the NUH contest not formally called off, the race could theoretically be fought between official contenders the Sikorsky S-76 (which has teamed up with Tata for the campaign), two offerings from Airbus — the H135M and AS565 Panther — and a proposed naval version of the Ka-226T.

Delays Endless, Now Indian Army Wants To LEASE Light Helicopters - Livefist

In the latest chapter of its stupefyingly endless quest for critically needed light helicopters, the Indian Army has just sent word officially out that it is looking to lease 20 light helicopters for the reconnaissance and surveillance role. The reason why this is absurd is that the Indian Army has…

www.livefistdefence.com

 

[samsaptaka]

Delays Endless, Now Indian Army Wants To LEASE Light Helicopters
In the latest chapter of its stupefyingly endless quest for critically needed light helicopters, the Indian Army has just sent word official out that it is looking to lease 20 light helicopters for the reconnaissance and surveillance role. The reason why this is absurd is that the Indian Army has been trying for two decades now to procure roughly 200 light helicopters to replace its fleet of old generation French origin Alouette-II and Alouette-III (Cheetah and Chetak) helicopters.

The army has described the target helicopters in almost precisely the same way it has always described the light utility helicopters it has sought to buy for decades — as light multi-utility platforms for reconnaissance, surveillance, armed recce, direction of artillery fire, scout role in conjunction with attack helicopters, aerial photography, airborne forward air controller and more.

While it is early to judge the army’s intentions, given the litany of Indian RFIs that have ended up being worth less than the paper they’re printed on, it is clear that the army feels pushed into a corner by difficult to explain delays in the procurement of such a basic capability. Not only has the Indian Army followed the Indian Air Force into the uncharted realms of leasing military hardware, but looking to lease 20 such helicopters indicates two things right off the bat in the event that this is a genuine quest and not an act of testing waters to see what’s out there. One, that the Army needs a fresh infusion of such helicopters on an urgent basis given a live operational situation in the northern frontiers. And two, that the Army has given up on any early forward movement on two helicopter programs that are intended to meet the army’s full requirement of such helicopters.

Of a total of nearly 400 such helicopters required by the Indian Army and Indian Air Force, HAL’s Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) and the Indo-Russian license built Ka-226T are to supply about half each. While the LUH, despite rapid strides towards a demonstrable operational capability at high altitudes including multiple operational demonstrations in Ladakh, has managed to only land orders for a dozen airframes, six each for the army and IAF, the Indo-Russian joint venture to build the Ka-226T near Bengaluru has remained paralysed for nearly seven years now, with little clarity on whether the Indian government plans to close the loop on a 2015 agreement to build 200 of the helicopters locally.

India’s military standoff with China in the high altitudes of eastern Ladakh that began in 2020 have accelerated defence procurements, but the light helicopter capability remains out in the cold.

The latest Indian Army RFI on the leasing option is only the latest in a saga of dramatic surges and aborts. In 2007 and again 2014, the Indian Army cancelled contests for acquire 197 helicopters. In both contests, Airbus Helicopters (named Eurocopter till 2013) was reported to be in pole position with its AS 550 C3 Fennec offering. A year after the 2014 abort, the Indian government announced in 2015 that HAL and Russia would negotiate a co-production joint venture around the Ka-226T, a program that has all but fallen apart. This would technically be good news for indigenous industry, given that accelerated development and testing of HAL’s LUH had given the Army the option of choosing a single Indian-origin helicopter type to meet the entire requirement of nearly 400 helicopters.

Which is where the prospect of leasing such helicopters is a bolt from the blue. To be sure, industry members indicate that the RFI was expected and that the Army had been sending out feelers for over a year now. That the Army has felt the need to even reveal that it is willing to consider leasing light helicopters establishes that the worst of India’s military procurement impulses have come full circle.

Separately, the Indian Navy’s quest for 111 shipborne naval utility helicopters (NUH) to replace its own Alouette-III helicopters is also on shaky ground. In 2022, after years of doubling down against HAL’s Dhruv helicopter for the naval utility role, the Indian Navy began paperwork to support the procurement of 60 Dhruv MkIII helicopters from HAL, a sizeable enough number to hint at the possibility that the NUH as we know it was on its last legs. But with the NUH contest not formally called off, the race could theoretically be fought between official contenders the Sikorsky S-76 (which has teamed up with Tata for the campaign), two offerings from Airbus — the H135M and AS565 Panther — and a proposed naval version of the Ka-226T.

Delays Endless, Now Indian Army Wants To LEASE Light Helicopters - Livefist

In the latest chapter of its stupefyingly endless quest for critically needed light helicopters, the Indian Army has just sent word officially out that it is looking to lease 20 light helicopters for the reconnaissance and surveillance role. The reason why this is absurd is that the Indian Army has…

www.livefistdefence.com

Why is IA even allowed to give out such statements ? They should simply be asked to place order for LUH ASAP and stop this import / lease kickback deals. GoI is totally innocent or totally corrupt.

 

[WolfPack86]

Improved LUH for the Indian Armed Forces | 300+ LUH Orders.

 

[WolfPack86]

Looking at procuring nearly 200 combat & utility helicopters, says Army chief at Aero India
Bengaluru: The Army is looking at procuring nearly 95 Prachand Light Combat Helicopters (LCH) for mountain warfare, as well as nearly 110 Light Utility Helicopters (LUH) to replace the ageing Cheetahs and Chetaks, Army chief Gen. Manoj Pande said Tuesday.

Speaking on the sidelines of the ongoing Aero India event in Bengaluru, he said that while the Army is getting an initial lot of six Advanced Light Helicopters (ALHs) from HAL, it has sought certain improvements such as autopilot capability.

In addition, the Army expects to get all six American Apache attack helicopters it has ordered in 2024, and any further additional orders will depend on how the Prachands shape up, Gen. Pande said in answer to ThePrint’s question.

“We have the combat aviation arm, which is equipped with the weaponised Advanced Light Helicopters and is known as the ALH WSI. There are about 45 such helicopters. We currently have five LCHs, of which three have been delivered. We are looking at a total of about 90-95 LCHs,” he said while speaking to a group of reporters here.

The Army chief added that the LCH is very versatile in terms of manoeuvrability and has been found to be “better suited for high altitude”. The LCHs are largely for the mountains, he said.

ThePrint had reported that while both the IAF and the Army have raised their first squadron of LCHs, the helicopter lacks its main arsenal and protection suites for now and will take time to be fully operational.

The LCH helicopter — also known as the tank buster — will get its anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) only by mid-2023. And while it is integrated with air-to-air missile launchers, the missile has not been ordered yet, sources in the defence and security establishment had told ThePrint.

Relevance of helicopters in warfare
The Army chief said that the anti-tank missile selected for the LCHs was the indigenous Helina, which has cleared trials.

“But the integration of the missile with the weapons platform is very important and that is something that we are very keen on,” he said.

Speaking about the indigenous LUHs, the Army chief said they fall in the category of recce and observation.

The Army has about 250 Cheetahs and Chetaks, which will be replaced by the LUHs, Gen. Pande said. Although the Army is looking at about 110 of these, he added, that number will increase with time.

Asked if the Army was relying too much on attack helicopters — which have proved to be a disaster in the ongoing Russia-Ukraine war — Gen. Pande said that helicopters would have relevance in warfare in the future. It’s a constant game between helicopters and anti-helicopter systems, he added, just as it is with tanks and anti-tank systems.

“The new helicopters will have a number of suites to operate in contested environments,” he said.

The Army chief also said that indigenisation of air defence guns was a priority for the force and that integrated electronic warfare systems are being tested along the Line of Actual Control (LAC).

Looking at procuring nearly 200 combat & utility helicopters, says Army chief at Aero India

Indigenisation of air defence guns are priority & integrated electronic warfare systems are being tested along Line of Actual Control, says Gen. Manoj Pande

theprint.in

 

[abingdonboy]

Delays Endless, Now Indian Army Wants To LEASE Light Helicopters
In the latest chapter of its stupefyingly endless quest for critically needed light helicopters, the Indian Army has just sent word official out that it is looking to lease 20 light helicopters for the reconnaissance and surveillance role. The reason why this is absurd is that the Indian Army has been trying for two decades now to procure roughly 200 light helicopters to replace its fleet of old generation French origin Alouette-II and Alouette-III (Cheetah and Chetak) helicopters.

The army has described the target helicopters in almost precisely the same way it has always described the light utility helicopters it has sought to buy for decades — as light multi-utility platforms for reconnaissance, surveillance, armed recce, direction of artillery fire, scout role in conjunction with attack helicopters, aerial photography, airborne forward air controller and more.

While it is early to judge the army’s intentions, given the litany of Indian RFIs that have ended up being worth less than the paper they’re printed on, it is clear that the army feels pushed into a corner by difficult to explain delays in the procurement of such a basic capability. Not only has the Indian Army followed the Indian Air Force into the uncharted realms of leasing military hardware, but looking to lease 20 such helicopters indicates two things right off the bat in the event that this is a genuine quest and not an act of testing waters to see what’s out there. One, that the Army needs a fresh infusion of such helicopters on an urgent basis given a live operational situation in the northern frontiers. And two, that the Army has given up on any early forward movement on two helicopter programs that are intended to meet the army’s full requirement of such helicopters.

Of a total of nearly 400 such helicopters required by the Indian Army and Indian Air Force, HAL’s Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) and the Indo-Russian license built Ka-226T are to supply about half each. While the LUH, despite rapid strides towards a demonstrable operational capability at high altitudes including multiple operational demonstrations in Ladakh, has managed to only land orders for a dozen airframes, six each for the army and IAF, the Indo-Russian joint venture to build the Ka-226T near Bengaluru has remained paralysed for nearly seven years now, with little clarity on whether the Indian government plans to close the loop on a 2015 agreement to build 200 of the helicopters locally.

India’s military standoff with China in the high altitudes of eastern Ladakh that began in 2020 have accelerated defence procurements, but the light helicopter capability remains out in the cold.

The latest Indian Army RFI on the leasing option is only the latest in a saga of dramatic surges and aborts. In 2007 and again 2014, the Indian Army cancelled contests for acquire 197 helicopters. In both contests, Airbus Helicopters (named Eurocopter till 2013) was reported to be in pole position with its AS 550 C3 Fennec offering. A year after the 2014 abort, the Indian government announced in 2015 that HAL and Russia would negotiate a co-production joint venture around the Ka-226T, a program that has all but fallen apart. This would technically be good news for indigenous industry, given that accelerated development and testing of HAL’s LUH had given the Army the option of choosing a single Indian-origin helicopter type to meet the entire requirement of nearly 400 helicopters.

Which is where the prospect of leasing such helicopters is a bolt from the blue. To be sure, industry members indicate that the RFI was expected and that the Army had been sending out feelers for over a year now. That the Army has felt the need to even reveal that it is willing to consider leasing light helicopters establishes that the worst of India’s military procurement impulses have come full circle.

Separately, the Indian Navy’s quest for 111 shipborne naval utility helicopters (NUH) to replace its own Alouette-III helicopters is also on shaky ground. In 2022, after years of doubling down against HAL’s Dhruv helicopter for the naval utility role, the Indian Navy began paperwork to support the procurement of 60 Dhruv MkIII helicopters from HAL, a sizeable enough number to hint at the possibility that the NUH as we know it was on its last legs. But with the NUH contest not formally called off, the race could theoretically be fought between official contenders the Sikorsky S-76 (which has teamed up with Tata for the campaign), two offerings from Airbus — the H135M and AS565 Panther — and a proposed naval version of the Ka-226T.

Delays Endless, Now Indian Army Wants To LEASE Light Helicopters - Livefist

In the latest chapter of its stupefyingly endless quest for critically needed light helicopters, the Indian Army has just sent word officially out that it is looking to lease 20 light helicopters for the reconnaissance and surveillance role. The reason why this is absurd is that the Indian Army has…

www.livefistdefence.com

Leasing military assets? Not even the most cash starved peace time militaries try this because ultimately the costs are enormous and the actual mission profile is very narrow

HAL has recently gotten into the leasing business but why do I feel a foreign company is favoured here?


not even a AON for >12 LUH to date and no orders for the ALH NUH

these jokers come in, move some papers around float these pie in the sky ideas then move onto their next posting, rinse and repeat.

Maybe there will be 30 LUH in service come 2030 at this rate, RFQ, DAC, CCS drama still has to go on. It won’t be until mid 2024 that all 12 LSP are handed over, as LCH has shown the subsequent large scale orders that are 100% coming according to IA/IAF generals never materialise.

Anyone heard from IMRH in the last 5 years?


the more time goes by the worse things are getting, I really wonder where all the money is going other than gold plated emergency procurements

 

[johnj]

Leasing military assets? Not even the most cash starved peace time militaries try this because ultimately the costs are enormous and the actual mission profile is very narrow

HAL has recently gotten into the leasing business but why do I feel a foreign company is favoured here?


not even a AON for >12 LUH to date and no orders for the ALH NUH

these jokers come in, move some papers around float these pie in the sky ideas then move onto their next posting, rinse and repeat.

Maybe there will be 30 LUH in service come 2030 at this rate, RFQ, DAC, CCS drama still has to go on. It won’t be until mid 2024 that all 12 LSP are handed over, as LCH has shown the subsequent large scale orders that are 100% coming according to IA/IAF generals never materialise.

Anyone heard from IMRH in the last 5 years?


the more time goes by the worse things are getting, I really wonder where all the money is going other than gold plated emergency procurements

AON comes under MOD, but leasing business comes under IA, since GoI showing zero interest in LUH, IA considering leasing some of them or any other, like IN done with sea guardian, it may convice MOD to order LSP, and emergency procurements money used for buying SUV now after that it goes leasing LUH
What is the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC)?
About Defence Acquisition Council (DAC):

• What is it? The DAC is the highest decision-making body of the defence Ministry on procurement.
• Objective: To ensure expeditious procurement of the approved requirements of the armed forces.
• Formation: It was formed after the Group of Minister's recommendations on 'Reforming the National Security System', in 2001, post-Kargil War (1999).
• Composition:
  • The defence minister is the chairman of DAC.
  • Its members include the Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) and chiefs of the Army, Navy, and Air Force.
• Functions:
  • Give in-principle approval of a 15 years Long Term Integrated Perspective Plan (LTIPP) for defence forces.
  • Accord of acceptance of necessity to acquisition proposals.
  • Categorization of the acquisition proposals relating to ‘Buy’, ‘Buy & Make’, and ‘Make’.
  • Look into issuesrelating to single vendor clearance.
  • Take decisions regarding ‘offset’ provisions in respect of acquisition proposals above Rs 300 crore.
  • Take decisions regarding the Transfer of Technology under the ‘Buy & Make’ category of acquisition proposals.
  • Field trial evaluation.

 

[WolfPack86]

HAL to demonstrate the Auto Pilot feature on LUH

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[WolfPack86]

HAL Light Utility Helicopter(LUH) to be integrated with Auto Pilot by December 2023

 

[Aditya Ballal]

HAL Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) fly-by over Tumakuru factory.

https://x.com/aviationwall/status/1706248047364092162?s=61&t=yuvGwS0cN0KJv4VlBwTZFg

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[Fatalis]

IA is the lead service in regards to procurement of the LUH just as IAF was for the LCH. IMO, the numbers will be:

126 for IA
61 for IAF

Both the services have already started the work on procurement of LSP series LUH with each service getting 6 helicopters.

 

[abingdonboy]

IA is the lead service in regards to procurement of the LUH just as IAF was for the LCH. IMO, the numbers will be:

126 for IA
61 for IAF

Both the services have already started the work on procurement of LSP series LUH with each service getting 6 helicopters.

The requirements for RSH/LUH are well over 400

 

[Fatalis]

The requirements for RSH/LUH are well over 400

The plan was to have around 200 each of LUH and Ka-226T to reach 400. Let's see how this goes.

 

[abingdonboy]

The plan was to have around 200 each of LUH and Ka-226T to reach 400. Let's see how this goes.

Yea but 226 is completely dead