German Army reported problems with G36 rifle

[Kunal Biswas]

No Dear, I am very sure German servicemen are very professional and they know how to keep there firearm operational ..

And its the barrel here in question not the Rifle as whole, A common 18inch barrel of any rifle is more or less same except the metallurgy ..

Don`t make facts on your own

There are no real problems with the G36's construction. The G36 never was designed for long-lasting engagements without firing breaks. To be more specific, when the G36 was being designed, there also was a special version with heavier barrel for longer firefights - this one however was never purchased..

 

[Ray]

Don`t make facts on your own

There are no real problems with the G36's construction. The G36 never was designed for long-lasting engagements without firing breaks. To be more specific, when the G36 was being designed, there also was a special version with heavier barrel for longer firefights - this one however was never purchased..
methos ↑

Who is to legislate that an attack will not be a long firefight and finish in a jiffy?

Typical stupid arguments by the western backers of their equipment.

Here is the difference

Mikhail Kalashnikov, designer of the world's most popular assault rifle, says that U.S. soldiers in Iraq are using his invention in preference to their own weapons, proving that his gun is still the best.

"Even after lying in a swamp you can pick up this rifle, aim it and shoot. That's the best job description there is for a gun. Real soldiers know that and understand it," the 86-year-old gunmaker told a weekend news conference in Moscow.

"In Vietnam, American soldiers threw away their M-16 rifles and used [Kalashnikov] AK-47s from dead Vietnamese soldiers, with bullets they captured. That was because the climate is different to America, where M-16s may work properly," he said.

"Look what's happening now: every day on television we see that the Americans in Iraq have my machine guns and assault rifles in their armored vehicles. Even there American rifles don't work properly."
http://www.haaretz.com/news/ak-47-inventor-u-s-troops-in-iraq-prefer-my-rifle-to-theirs-1.185455

Israeli news.

 

[methos]

Why this hullabaloo about G36?

Mostly because of politics. The reports about the G36 issues appeared just before the elections in 2013. The German ministry of defence has suffered a lot of troubles during the previous period of rule by de Maiziere (now ex-defence minister) and his predecessors.
In mid to late 2013 a number of articles has been published about the troubles associated with the "latest" military acquistions: the problems of the Puma IFV, UHT Tiger, K130, Euro Hawk and finally the G36.
The Euro Hawk is the only real failure: The whole program costed more than 1.3 billion Euros, but then in 2013 it was publically disclosed, that it failed German and EU security trials and hence was not allowed to fly anywhere close to inhabited areas.


The final result of the official investigation also didn't found the G36 to be the fault of the reported troubles, but the ammunition from on of the manufacturers:
Sturmgewehr G36: Mangel-Munition soll Probleme verursacht haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE (newspaper article speaking about the results of the official investigation)

The G36 can have trouble with overheating (i.e. the plastic starts to melt once the barrel gets too hot), but this should never happen in combat, unless the user fires an extremely high amount of ammunition without any firing pause.

They could have simply taken FN-FALs and AKMs with them to Afghanistan.

And why should they take the FN FAL or AKM with them? The AKM is worse in pretty much all regards when compared to the G36. The FN FAL is not in German service, but it is very closely related to the G3.

The German solution (which has been ignored by the media reporting about the G36 issues) was introducing two further versions of the G3 (the G3 ZF and G3 DMR) and the G28 (a version of the HK MR 308) into service. All of these weapons are chambered in the older 7.62 mm NATO round.
According to offical German sources, the G3 is considered to be accurate enough for effective engagement of enemy forces up to 600 m, while the G28 has an effective range of up to 800 m.

No Dear, I am very sure German servicemen are very professional and they know how to keep there firearm operational ..

And its the barrel here in question not the Rifle as whole, A common 18inch barrel of any rifle is more or less same except the metallurgy ..

I am not making up any facts. The lmG36 was a special version of the G36 with bipod and a heavier barrel. The barrel was thicker, which means that it takes longer for it too reach the critical melting point of the plastic, and that it had more surface to dispense the heat generated from firing.

The lmG36 however was never accepted by the German army, because it was considered to be expensive and to be an assault rifle (despite being called "light machine gun 36" by the manufacturer), the reason for this being the lack of quick-barrel-replacing mechanism.

The Germans might be professional servicemen, but if you spoke any German you should visit some of the more professional German websites or speak to actual German soldiers. There are quite a few "horror stories" about the some members of the German army or some decisions made in the past by the DoD.

PS: Can somebody tell me why the forum is broke? It is really hard to distinguish quotes from the rest of a reply, because the stylesheet (?) of the forum is missing.

 

[apple]

How about, You two have no where near the understanding of firearm on first place ..

So, Einstein, would you like to explain how the Laws of Physics don't apply to firearms and how I was "no where near the understanding of firearm on first place"?

________________________________________

And its the barrel here in question not the Rifle as whole, A common 18inch barrel of any rifle is more or less same except the metallurgy ..

Don`t make facts on your own

Refer to Methos answers in the last post.

While Methos seems to have specific knowledge of the G36 (which I don't have), I would also add to his answer that a heavier barrel should have more mass, which would help it stay cooler longer. In addition, it may have a positive effect on barrel harmonics, but that's a subject I have virtually no understanding of.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Methos, You don`t have a slightest Idea about what you talking, Don`t you ? ..

INSAS, M4, AK-100 series, G-36 and all other firearm use thermostat mainly not some plastic , Plastic layer is over thermostat cover and its all same for all modern Rifles, Can you now stop making fact .. I mean NOW !

We don`t need to learn German, German officials from Germany often visit here and they speak good English with us, One of them even impressed with our firearms, Though he was not a Infantry man ..

The G36 can have trouble with overheating (i.e. the plastic starts to melt once the barrel gets too hot), but this should never happen in combat, unless the user fires an extremely high amount of ammunition without any firing pause.

I am not making up any facts. The lmG36 was a special version of the G36 with bipod and a heavier barrel. The barrel was thicker, which means that it takes longer for it too reach the critical melting point of the plastic.

but if you spoke any German you should visit some of the more professional German websites.

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Don`t talk about things you know **** about ..

Lurk and learn before knee jerking, Or you will be shown your way out ..

So, Einstein, would you like to explain how the Laws of Physics don't apply to firearms and how I was "no where near the understanding of firearm on first place"?

 

[methos]

You are clueless, I have a lot of knowledge about what I am talking about.

The G36 body is made of glass-fibre reinforeced polyamid (to be more exact, it is Polyamid 6.6). Polyamid is a type of polymere and hence a type of plastic. This polyamid melted during actual high-endurance testing done by BWB as mentioned in the source I provided earlier.

So stop flaming and start to read some sources or don't participate in this discussion.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Quite down, Keep away your rant to yourself ..

You know nothing you are babbling about, For the very start ' melting plastic ' shows your level of knowledge ..

If you don`t understand what you talking about and what others telling you, You should be smart and learn about things you don`t know ..

Like i said, " Don`t talk about things you know **** about .. "

I have a lot of knowledge about what I am talking about.

The G36 body is made of glass-fibre reinforeced polyamid (to be more exact, it is Polyamid 6.6). Polyamid is a type of polymere and hence a type of plastic. This polyamid melted during actual high-endurance testing done by BWB as mentioned in the source I provided earlier.

 

[methos]

There is not much sense in proclaiming that your adversaries lack knowledge, just because you have problems providing other proofs for your argumentation.

I have seen and also used the G36 multiple times myself and unlike you I have access to dozens of German sources. I have more knowledge about the G36 than you and any attempts from you to make me look misinformed are nothing than internet flaming.

Here is an article about the topic from Augen geradeaus!:
Kein Aprilscherz: Wenn das Gewehr heißläuft : Augen geradeaus

This article contains the wording of the official German army orders about the topic. It clearly says that the testing proofed that certain components of the G36 melt when firing large amounts of ammunition (150 rounds continuus firing) when the bullet type ZDv 3/136 RN 136 is used.

In other defence magazines there were even pictures showing the melted (angeschmorten) parts of the G36.

Don't make a fool of yourself and stop this senseless attacks on other persons just because they have a different opinion and facts speaking for them.

 

[ITBP]

Germany can also replace G 36 by H&K 33, it is cheaper than H&K 416 and 417.

 

[pmaitra]

And why should they take the FN FAL or AKM with them?

Because both are tried and tested.

The AKM is worse in pretty much all regards when compared to the G36.

The AKM won't have the overheating problem like the G36. I mean it might overheat, but it will keep firing. I would pick an AKM over G39 anyday, if I were aware of the overheating problem.

The FN FAL is not in German service, but it is very closely related to the G3.

I know. They simply need to use something that works and something that closely matches their battle doctrine. That is why FN-FAL. Coming to AKM, it can be used for suppression.

 

[methos]

The overheating is only an issue, when the G36 is used with flawed ammunition (type ZDv 3/136 RN 136) from MEN Metallwerk Elisenhütte. When used with this ammunition, after 150 rounds a longer firing pause has to be done.

When used with ammunition from other proliferants (and there are multiple) or newer ammunition from MEN M. E. produced after the flaws were discovered, the G36 is expected to not suffer from any heat related issues (unless it is used for permant firing with more rounds than usually carried by two infrantrymen).

(zDV 3/136 = manual for the G36, RN 136 = type of ammunition)

 

[ITBP]

Of course, with lots of shots fired, by law of probability, at least one will hit the target.

Why this hullabaloo about G36? They could have simply taken FN-FALs and AKMs with them to Afghanistan.

Why use foreign rifles? They better simply replace G 36 by H&K 33 or WW2 STG 44. Indeed G 3 a German battle rifle(comparable to FN FAL) is better.

 

[pmaitra]

Why use foreign rifles? They better simply replace G 36 by H&K 33 or WW2 STG 44. Indeed G 3 a German battle rifle(comparable to FN FAL) is better.

G3 and Heckler-Koch 33 are good as well.

What I fail to understand, and this applies to India as well, what is the need to constantly "research" new rifles when no substantial improvement is being made? Or am I missing something? Seems like a money sink-hole for the government to benefit the arms companies.

 

[Ray]

You are clueless, I have a lot of knowledge about what I am talking about.

The G36 body is made of glass-fibre reinforeced polyamid (to be more exact, it is Polyamid 6.6). Polyamid is a type of polymere and hence a type of plastic. This polyamid melted during actual high-endurance testing done by BWB as mentioned in the source I provided earlier.

So stop flaming and start to read some sources or don't participate in this discussion.

Poor selection of material?

G3 and Heckler-Koch 33 are good as well.

What I fail to understand, and this applies to India as well, what is the need to constantly "research" new rifles when no substantial improvement is being made? Or am I missing something? Seems like a money sink-hole for the government to benefit the arms companies.

Research is good.

However, in India, the research is spurred by the new 'innovations' made by foreign weapon manufacturers and the hype they can generate.

Unless the weapon manufactures keep the world agog with smoke and mirror and sometimes rarely with logic, how will they guarantee that their companies remain in the black at the bottom line?

 

[cobra commando]

Press Statement by the Minister of Defence on the G36 Assault Rifle

 

[cobra commando]

German defense minister says "²no future"² for G36 rifles in Bundeswehr | News | DW.DE | 22.04.2015