In 1999, atleast 2 tanks are with armyokay where was the tank in 1999
In 1999, atleast 2 tanks are with armyokay where was the tank in 1999
same goes for America , SH and SV, also why would then Russia collborate with India on PAK FACan you elobarate how russian requirement is different before advocating for russian products. Russian are not inducting because these products are not for next 30 years and they have a very loyal customer named India to dump all their junks
AJS, the question arises only when T-90M is operational and if IA shows an interest in them.i quote " first you should tell how long it takes to indegenize a tech transfer i say 5 years so tech was transfered at least 5 years ago
same is the fate of mki tech transfer took 6 years" from the same website http://kuku.sawf.org/News/59601.aspx
T-90M will be operational soon ,plus the TOT for T-90M wont take long ,since we are already customers of Russians , also IA has expressed interest in T-90MAJS, the question arises only when T-90M is operational and if IA shows an interest in them.
Russia is not even ready with T-90M. besides indian TOT is for T-90S.
so where is the question of indigenising it??
so you mean to say that current Chief of Air stuff is fool to say that " i am not happy with LCA project with the last 20 years "for those who bash DRDO and ADA on the LCA (for the supposed delay) -
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/20080218_duds01.html
and
http://www.hindu.com/2008/03/09/stories/2008030958701000.htm
do read the above.
thanks.
Do you have any source? If we are so much a love pat of mother Russia, why mother Russia is so reluctant to provide barrell tech to their favourite pat India. About T-90M we have heard about it for several years with their ultra secreative, stealth T-95. When mother Russia dumped T95 projects all the indian fun boys started about T90M, victor, burkut etc etc. We are buying and we have TOT for T90S only. Russian army has around 200 T90. If the T90is such a great tank why Russia is not buying it in a large numbers?T-90M will be operational soon ,plus the TOT for T-90M wont take long ,since we are already customers of Russians , also IA has expressed interest in T-90M
Did you read the articles pppj posted?so you mean to say that current Chief of Air stuff is fool to say that " i am not happy with LCA project with the last 20 years "
No body is saying that DRDO is completely correctthis is really sad the way the army is treated they reject one tank & people brand them corrupted,or import hungry even after buying many DRDO products its not like DRDO has a squieky clean image,
Don't BS so according to you DRDO is the manufacturer?all they been doing all these years are manufacturing russian and western weaponery under TOT now after all these years they are talking about encouraging R&D when they should have that years ago,
What are you speaking here? You have any clue or just for thee heck you are ranting. Isn't LCA is flying with GE engine? And have you checked the benefits of the technologies developed for LCA for ex MiG 27 upgrades Su 30 MKI mission computers. So according to you these should not have been developed at all.and i will not buy that they will not get adequet funding because that is completly false the LCA A/C could have been a reality if they had just purchased the components like engines,radars off the shelf and after FOC could have dived into developing these technologies and by now we could have had a Tejas mk- 2 or Mk-3 with 80% indegenious components
So according to you what ever product they have inducted was perfect from day 1 without any issues at all? Come on apply some logic before putting a sentencethe same with arjun what i like to know is when armed forces of countries like france or US or isreal or any developed countries reject any weapon systems does that make them corrupted? or they are unsupportive towards indeginisation? when the user rejects a weapon they have there reasons after all they are the one who use it at the end? so whats the big deal it does'nt mean they don't like indegineous products you move on and look to the future not stuff them down there throats
I am not ranting i don't need to rant,you talk about the GE 404 engine when was the decision made to go for the GE 404 engine made can you tell me? forgot about the kaveri engine drama all i meant to say was they could have gone with the Grippin way by buying critical components off the shelf for the first time ONLY when there were CLEAR signs that the same will take time to develop indegeneouslyWhat are you speaking here? You have any clue or just for thee heck you are ranting. Isn't LCA is flying with GE engine?
AGAIN there's no BS i was referring to the past at what we were doing getting TOT (T-90,72's,MIG's ,Sukois,BMP's) and then manufacturing them here what was DRDO doing then, we are forced to still using the MIG 21's for god's sakeDon't BS so according to you DRDO is the manufacturer?
I request you to apply the same logic which you so talk about before blindly blaming the armed forces or any body for that matters Tell me how many camache Attack helis do you seenow? or the new GE F35 engine which it is lobbying so aggressively to the congrees do you see that in the new F35 prototypes? or what about the new Scar assualt rifles which is still undergoing user trials by SACCOM, or the F-22's when still it is not being flown that much by the USAF after all these years why do you think they are so less in no's even when billions are pumped in to developing them they are 5th gen by every standerds you don't see much of the developers complaining of sabotage yes they are promoting there product but they are not questioning the decisions of the users are they? any armed forces will not induct any equipment which does not pass its initial trials its that simple arjun failed the initial trials so were not inducted in full no's later it passed in the trials and more were inducted thats it deal with it don't go about accusing one of the oldest and most respectable institutions of corruption because thats not fair and it is wrongSo according to you what ever product they have inducted was perfect from day 1 without any issues at all? Come on apply some logic before putting a sentence
Isn't this is happening LCA is flying with GE 404 what is your point?I am not ranting i don't need to rant,you talk about the GE 404 engine when was the decision made to go for the GE 404 engine made can you tell me? forgot about the kaveri engine drama all i meant to say was they could have gone with the Grippin way by buying critical components off the shelf for the first time ONLY when there were CLEAR signs that the same will take time to develop indegeneously
The ToT is given to manufacturing agency not to DRDO which is a research organization which gets funding from GoI which in turn takes advise from services and gives mandate to do research to DRDO in those areas.AGAIN there's no BS i was referring to the past at what we were doing getting TOT (T-90,72's,MIG's ,Sukois,BMP's) and then manufacturing them here what was DRDO doing then, we are forced to still using the MIG 21's for god's sake
What ever you have written have you understood the base of it?I request you to apply the same logic which you so talk about before blindly blaming the armed forces or any body for that matters Tell me how many camache Attack helis do you seenow? or the new GE F35 engine which it is lobbying so aggressively to the congrees do you see that in the new F35 prototypes? or what about the new Scar assualt rifles which is still undergoing user trials by SACCOM, or the F-22's when still it is not being flown that much by the USAF after all these years why do you think they are so less in no's even when billions are pumped in to developing them they are 5th gen by every standerds you don't see much of the developers complaining of sabotage yes they are promoting there product but they are not questioning the decisions of the users are they? any armed forces will not induct any equipment which does not pass its initial trials its that simple arjun failed the initial trials so were not inducted in full no's later it passed in the trials and more were inducted thats it deal with it don't go about accusing one of the oldest and most respectable institutions of corruption because thats not fair and it is wrong
My point is it was known that the kaveri engine can never be ready on time still the IAF was promised that delivery would happen in time then the decision to go with the GE 404 was taken only after GTRE failed to develop the kaveri engine on time, when this could have been done in the biginning itself, all the time and money which could have been saved,Isn't this is happening LCA is flying with GE 404 what is your point?
My point was to show you that all countries has certain standers and trials when it comes to using weapons and ultimatly the users determise whether to use it or not, the examples was to show that even some of the most complex systems developed failed to achive sucess it should have because the users could not fit it in its plans whether its homegrown or imported does'nt matter and the IA is no different so there is nothing new or controvertial about it, if the user feels it will help in the over all plan he will take ot or no so don't make a big issue out of it if you still disapprove then please Enlighten meWhat ever you have written have you understood the base of it?
FUNDING and inclination to use the home grown products.
I don't think so, if you don't understand this then there is no hope of having any meaningful conversation
NOW comming to your RANTS about buying deficient products the decision to buy weapon system does not only lie in the hands of the armed forces the MOD,DOD & host of other agencies are involved they are not idiots to import defective products if it were true then the PHALCON AWACS,the HERON UAV, Tavor, hercules C130 J,C-17 globemasters are all defective?Now coming to your rant about arjun you keep on repeating the things without understanding that the foreign products are ordered with deficiencies why this favor is given to foreign products only?
Uh so what there was a delay and alternative engine was chosen it happens in development you don't achieve desired result every time.My point is it was known that the kaveri engine can never be ready on time still the IAF was promised that delivery would happen in time then the decision to go with the GE 404 was taken only after GTRE failed to develop the kaveri engine on time, when this could have been done in the biginning itself, all the time and money which could have been saved,
First understand basic thing, the products are developed according to user requirements so it's user also carry equal responsibility towards that product.My point was to show you that all countries has certain standers and trials when it comes to using weapons and ultimatly the users determise whether to use it or not, the examples was to show that even some of the most complex systems developed failed to achive sucess it should have because the users could not fit it in its plans whether its homegrown or imported does'nt matter and the IA is no different so there is nothing new or controvertial about it, if the user feels it will help in the over all plan he will take ot or no so don't make a big issue out of it if you still disapprove then please Enlighten me
Don't change the point by taking different names, as you say it is user who has to chose the product then it's user resposibility to chose the right one if it has defect then the blame has to be on user. Don't try to blame other for user's wrong doings.NOW comming to your RANTS about buying deficient products the decision to buy weapon system does not only lie in the hands of the armed forces the MOD,DOD & host of other agencies are involved they are not idiots to import defective products if it were true then the PHALCON AWACS,the HERON UAV, Tavor, hercules C130 J,C-17 globemasters are all defective?
What Bhul jao??^^ फिर तो à¤à¥‚ल ही जाओ... इस जनà¥à¤® में नहीं होने वाला.. Just get the private players and be done with it already. This red tapism has almost killed India's indigenous capabilities. China is at least 2 decades ahead of us in indigenous development even if we call it stealing, copying and borrowing. At least during wartime, they will have constant supply of their own stuff rather than wait for shipments from foreign countries.