F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

StealthFlanker

New Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
879
Likes
1,213
Country flag
This radar was developped so as to fit the two mode. It's was genius idea, so as to capitalize on the experience of the first gen antenna.
The PESA "antenna" include for exemple the TOP, not the AESA of course. All the back part of the radar, probably the costlier one, is common
Except that they aren't like literally the TWT, high power amplifier, low noise amplifier and phase shifter aren't the same
Sorry my dear, but NO.
A lighter plane, thanks to composite better T/W ratio of the engine (a Mirage 2000 M53 engine has the same weight than ATAR 9 of the Mirage 3 but with roughly 30% more thrust) help to improve ITR but mainly STR.
Nice try, if only it was that simple.
Mirage 2000 is actually heavier than Mirage III, nevertheless, there are only 3.9% differences in their wing loading. Yet somehow Mirage 2000 instantaneous turn rate is 60% better, despite your "logic" of same of wing layout.
What is the use of the F16 LERX ? To energize the flow up the wing so as to keep the tail active.
Actually no,
LERX create vortex which reduce pressure => steeper CL/alpha
Furthermore, vortex delay the flow separation => higher Clmax


But the single vertical tail of F-16 can't catch the energized flow from the LERX, most of the flow is also blocked by the fuselage, so at high AoA it is basically at a super stall.



F35 is a medium dog fighter versus 40 years old F16.
And Rafale went against F-4 which is 60 years old fighter.


what is the use of peddal turn in air combat?)
Offensive Spiral

 

BON PLAN

-*-
New Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
6,510
Likes
7,217
Country flag
Nice try, if only it was that simple.
Mirage 2000 is actually heavier than Mirage III, nevertheless, there are only 3.9% differences in their wing loading. Yet somehow Mirage 2000 instantaneous turn rate is 60% better, despite your "logic" of same of wing layout.
No moving leading edge on Mirage 3, so you can't say it's the same wing plan.

Add no FBW, not the same CG ....

You are comparing apple and strawberry.
 

BON PLAN

-*-
New Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
6,510
Likes
7,217
Country flag
LERX create vortex which reduce pressure => steeper CL/alpha
Furthermore, vortex delay the flow separation => higher Clmax
NOT ONLY.
Lerx also dynamise air flow over the wing. So the vertical single fin keep some authority.

The 2 small wings on the air intakes of M2000 have the same use (ie : energize air flow for the fin. No use in flow separation over the Delta)

The close coupled canards of Rafale also : to avoid flow separation over the main wing so as to increase lift, reduce stall speed, AND energize flow around the fin.
 

BON PLAN

-*-
New Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
6,510
Likes
7,217
Country flag
What if the F-35 Fighter Never Existed?


24 years after the program first began as the Joint Advanced Strike Technology (JAST) program, 21 years after the first Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) design contracts were awarded, and yet 16 years after Lockheed Martin won the development contract for the F-35 Lightning II, way back in October 2001. It’s notable that a war started the month prior to that award. Perhaps it’s intriguing to ask what might have happened if that contract had never been signed—if, perhaps, the Pentagon had gone all-in supporting the fighting in Afghanistan (and later Iraq), and found some other solution for backfilling its aging fighter fleets.

Extrapolating a little from the Selected Acquisition Report of December 2014, the U.S. Defense Department alone has so far spent or appropriated just under 100 USD billion on its F35. Over half of that has been for development and construction; only about $45 billion has gone into low-rate initial production of the first 300 or so aircraft. The production cost of a Lightning is thus not wickedly worse than that of a Typhoon, though Dassault’s Rafale is probably a bit less. Boeing’s Super Hornets and Saab’s Gripens cost much less—perhaps only half as much, depending on the basis of the estimate.

What else might the Pentagon done with that $100 billion? (Apart, of course, from the Treasury not borrowing it in the first place!) Forgoing new development, the whole sum would have bought about 740 Typhoons, or 900 Rafale or 1100 Super Hornets—and those aircraft would be in service already. As the F-35 is only now just available, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq would have gone no worse. The Navy would have no carrier deck shortfall. No one would be anguishing over the decaying state of the fighter force. Chinese Intelligence would have had no new stealth fighter plans to steal. So the dreaded Chengdu J-20, like the much-ballyhooed Sukhoi PAK-FA, would still be just a prototype. And this would all be well-and-good, for now.

For by the threat estimates on their briefing slides, a grim mood would have already set in amongst the air admirals and generals. Enemy aircraft aren’t the stressing threat yet; it’s enemy missiles. Those “fourth-generation” fighters (as Lockheed’s marketing literature calls them) are expected to suffer high loss rates against Almaz-Antei’s S-300 and S-400 anti-aircraft batteries, now in service from Russia to China to Syria, and maybe soon in Iran. Squadrons of Super Hornets could attempt to fly through them, much like B-17s weathering flak over Schweinfurt. The other frightening missiles are China's legions of the anti-ship variety, on aircraft, ships, and trucks. China’s latest aircraft, too, aren’t to be trifled with. As I heard a retired air admiral put it recently, "with squadrons of J-20s coming eastbound, a supercarrier in the China Seas might need all 44 of those F-18s just to defend itself.” Either way, such a “grinding strategy of attrition,” as Max Boot pointed out back in 2003, no longer fits in what Russell Weigley once termed “the American War of War”.

Think about how much more could have been accomplished with just a part of that hundred billion dollars.
 

StealthFlanker

New Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
879
Likes
1,213
Country flag
No moving leading edge on Mirage 3, so you can't say it's the same wing plan.
So, on one hand, you can see that Mirage III and Mirage 2000 doesn't have the exact same wing configuration due to the slat , yet at the same time you think F-16 and F-35 have the same wing plan because they both use wing-tail layout despite the fact that they literally use completely different kind of airfoil with different thickness, camber, sweep, aspect ratio, different number of vertical stabs, different fuselage ? Double standard much?

Add no FBW, not the same CG ....
You are comparing apple and strawberry.
FBW between F-35 and F-16 isn't the same, and neither is their CG so once again your double standard is showing.
If comparing aerodynamic of Mirage III and 2000 is like comparing apple and strawberry then comparing F-35 and F-16 would be like comparing Apple and The moon.

NOT ONLY.
Lerx also dynamise air flow over the wing. So the vertical single fin keep some authority.
The 2 small wings on the air intakes of M2000 have the same use (ie : energize air flow for the fin. No use in flow separation over the Delta)
The close coupled canards of Rafale also : to avoid flow separation over the main wing so as to increase lift, reduce stall speed, AND energize flow around the fin.
LERX, canard, slat, chines can all create vortex to improve CL (the vortex is what energized your airflow)
But it doesn't help much when your vertical tails can't catch much of the airflow (since it is at the center of the fuselage and at high AoA the fuselage will block most of the flow.).
While they can still pitch to high AoA then recover, single vertical tail aircraft without TVC don't have the nose authority of twin canted tail aircraft.
Case in point: F-16 is heavily AoA limited by CAT limiter

You will never see F-16, EF-2000, Rafale or Gripen perform something like this, even in an airshow.


a nice slow and predicable target in the sky.....
usefull as the "Cobra".... just for aero show.
Not very useful for multi boogies dogfight but could be quite useful for 1 vs 1 dogfight
https://theaviationist.com/2016/03/...g-in-the-f-35-a-jsf-pilot-first-hand-account/
In a furball with many enemy, something like Thach Wave will be more useful , but it has little to do with aircraft agility
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave
 

BON PLAN

-*-
New Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
6,510
Likes
7,217
Country flag
Yet Rafale did perform a high AoA slow pass, like i said, they can reach AoA, they just doesn't have same level of control authority
We just have to wait the first real training between a rafale and a F35...

There will be blood.
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,558
Country flag
F-35A NOW ONLY $89 MILLION UNDER LOT 11 (still LRIP)

The deal for 141 F-35s lowers the price of the F-35A, the most common version of the stealthy fighter jet, to about $89 million, down around 6 percent from $94.3 million in the last deal struck in February 2017, the sources familiar with the talks said.
The F-35 program is aiming to grow the fleet to more than 3,000 jets and bring the unit price of the F-35A closer to $80 million in 2020 through efficiencies gained by ordering in larger quantifies.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ent-to-below-90-million-sources-idUSKBN1K50D3
 

BON PLAN

-*-
New Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
6,510
Likes
7,217
Country flag
@BON PLAN Congrats for FIFA cup.
It was hard, very very hard.
Belgium and Croatia were high level teams.

We just win playing as Italians.... (harsh defense and some high speed counter attacks)

But only the victory is great.

Thanks.
 

BON PLAN

-*-
New Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
6,510
Likes
7,217
Country flag

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,558
Country flag
Not even FOC that a new engine is on the drawing board. :scared2:

18 tons of thrust not enough? It's sure that with the aerodynamism of a piece of sugar....
That's only an upgrade, not a new engine. It'll be the same engine, F135. In fact, P&W already tested an increased thrust/reduced consumption F135 (so this improvement is already ready).
 

Articles

Top