F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[Neil]

BAE Systems Opens New F-35 Lightning II Machining Facility

Samlesbury, UK – BAE Systems has formally opened a new state-of-the-art titanium machining facility at its Samlesbury site in Lancashire. The robotic facility will be used to manufacture detail and assembly components of the Aft Fuselage, Vertical Tail and Horizontal Tail for the F-35 Lightning II combat aircraft, further reinforcing BAE Systems' key role in the world's largest defence programme.

From the first sod being cut in May 2009, the 9000 metre square machining facility has taken just ten months to complete and a further eight months to become operational. It comprises two computerised Flexible Manufacturing Systems (FMS) which not only manage the manufacturing requirements and machine tool utilization, but also interface with order book requirements, thus ensuring components are produced and delivered on a 'just-in-time' basis.

Each FMS contains eight large hard metal milling machines, two long spar longeron machines and is supported by a number of secondary operations. The facility is equipped to allow two titanium components to be produced at the same time thus doubling efficiency. This capability will be critical in meeting the growing demands of the F-35 Lightning II programme which, at full rate production, will potentially see aircraft produced at a rate of one per day.

The facility was formally opened by Mark Kane, BAE Systems' Managing Director – Air Mission Support & Services who commented "This is a huge step forward in the development of our manufacturing capabilities. The facility contains extremely complex manufacturing systems that have taken years to design, with some being the first of their kind in world. Investment in cutting edge technology is fundamental in demonstrating our commitment to enhancing the UK's manufacturing capabilities and the future of aerospace in the UK."

Mark added "This facility is also fundamental in ensuring we continue to play a key role in the F-35 programme. We are steadily increasing our technical capability in support of the F-35 programme and this facility will keep us quite literally at the cutting edge of manufacturing technology."


http://www.defenceaviation.com/2010...aign=Feed:+DefenceAviation+(Defence+Aviation)

 

[Tshering22]

Israel's Defense Minister Ehud Barak Approves an initial buy of 20 F-35A Stealth Fighters for $2.75 Billion. Photo: Lockheed Martin

Israel will be the first country to receive the F-35 through the United States government's Foreign Military Sales process. beginning in 2015.

In August 2010 Israel's defense minister Lt. General (Ret) Ehud Barak has given the go-ahead to a $2.75 billion purchase of 20 fifth Generation, stealth F-35I Lightning II fighter jets from Lockheed Martin. About a month later, on September 19, the Israeli government approved the procurement authorizing local currency budgeting necessary for the preparation of infrastructure. On October 7, Israel's Ministry of Defense Director General (Maj. Gen. Ret.) Udi Shani signed the Letter of Offer and Acceptance for the procurement of the F-35 aircraft. The acquisition of the planes will be funded by U.S. military aid, over eight years. The new fighter will be provided along with an integral support package, sustaining the aircraft through its service life. The decision has yet to pass the approval of the Israeli government. The purchase will be funded by U.S. military aid to Israel. Israel originally planned to initially buy of 25 aircraft. The current decision trims this initial buy by five aircraft. According to Israel MOD sources, the flyaway cost of these aircraft will be $96 million, but this cost reflects only the net price of the platform.

The expenses including the preparation of the new squadron, initial infrastructure, logistical and support package is expected to eventually exceed $150 million per plane. Given the additional integration cost of locally developed Israeli systems, planned for integration into this highly complex aircraft, the cost of future batches is expected to rise significantly for the fully equipped F-35Is in following years. Israel's future plans are to buy 75 F-35Is. Furthermore, for these enhancement and adaptations Israel may have to rely on local currency funding, unlike the aircraft acquisition program that will be funded entirely by the annual U.S. aid amounting over $2 billion per year.

Israeli pilots will begin training on the new aircraft by 2014 and the first aircraft are expected to arrive in Israel by 2015. The first squadron could become operational in less than two years at one of the Israel Air Force (IAF) southern air bases.

The initial F-35I will represent standard F-35A models. However, the F-35I acquisition agreement is opening opportunities for the installation of Israeli systems in future production batches. These opportunities will also open the aircraft for marketing Israeli systems to other air forces, reflecting an opportunity worth several billions of dollars for the local industry. Gen. Udi Shani has stated that the acquisition agreement also includes a framework for buyback purchasing from the Israeli industry worth $4 billion. The introduction of Israeli components, systems and technologies into the world's newest fighter plane will also open a potential market opportunity worth about $5 billion among the aircraft users. Read the full article on today's Defense-Update.com.

Israel is somehow still not convinced of JSF and ordered very limited jets. Wonder what's their intention.

 

[Neil]

Lockheed proposes F-35'ing the F-22

So far, the F-22 and F-35 have been developed along parallel paths. Except for one of the F-35's engines, the direct links between Lockheed's two "fifth-generation fighters" are surprisingly thin. It seems both Lockheed Martin and the US Air Force like it that way. If an official -- or even unofficial -- photo exists showing both aircraft together in flight, I've never seen it.

The disconnect extends deep beneath the titanium and steel skin. Major subsystems for both aircraft are based on different computing architectures. So improving hardware or software on the F-35 yields no benefit for the F-22, and vice versa.

No decisions have been made, but Lockheed officials at the F-22 factory are asking if that should change, only 16 months before the production line is shut.

The concept involves installing the F-35 computing architecture and certain hardware in the F-22. Even Lockheed acknowledges the idea would require "significant initial investment", but could yield "some cost savings" in the long-term. Discussions with the US Air Force are underway.

"Say, if we want to add something to [the F-22] CNI suite, F-35 could take that wholesale with minimal modifications," says Jeff Babione, vice-president and deputy general manager of the F-22 programme. "So you'll see this bouncing back and forth where F-22 develops something for F-35, and F-35 develops something for F-22."

Although less powerful and slower than the F-22, the F-35 has more sensors. Installing the electro-optical targeting system, infrared search and track and distributed aperture system "as is" on the F-22 is impossible, the company says, but the proposed "common architecture and common modules provides the opportunity for synergy ... at a potentially lower cost across both platforms".

Another potential example is the integration of the multifunction airborne data link (MADL), a narrowband channel designed to pass data between stealth aircraft such as the F-35, F-22 and the Northrop Grumman B-2A bomber.

The US Congress has criticised the US Air Force over the high cost of integrating MADL on the F-22, even after making a similar heavy investment for the F-35. The USAF has recently withdrawn MADL from the Increment 3.2 upgrade programme for F-22, delaying the start of integration until fiscal year 2014, Babione says.

But adopting a common architecture with the F-35 could "dramatically reduce" MADL implementation costs on the F-22, Babione says.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2010/10/lockheed-proposes-f-35ing-the.html

 

[Neil]

Israel is somehow still not convinced of JSF and ordered very limited jets. Wonder what's their intention.

the cost is way too high for Israel and its development is still under way so they are playing on the safer side....

 

[Vladimir79]

the cost is way too high for Israel and its development is still under way so they are playing on the safer side....

What price is too high? They get them for free off their military welfare check.

 

[Neil]

What price is too high? They get them for free off their military welfare check.

i doubt they will use their entire ''military welfare check'' for just 20 warplanes.....and they want to modify this planes with Israel avionics which mean shelling out more money and US ain't gonna pay for it.....

 

[Neil]

F-35 buy could trigger Arctic arms race: Expert

A government purchase of F-35 fighter jets could cause "angst in Russia" and trigger an Arctic arms race, Arctic sovereignty expert Michael Byers said Thursday.

"I don't want my country to be the country that starts an Arctic arms race," Byers said as debate over the government's plan to spend $16 billion on 65 of the F-35s raged on several fronts on Parliament Hill.

Byers is chair in global politics and international law at the University of British Columbia. He said there is no need for stealth "shock and awe" military aircraft in the North and senior U.S. military officials have contradicted Canadian government claims of threats from aging Russian bombers near Canadian airspace.

What is needed up North, he emphasized, is search-and-rescue planes.

Air force chief Lt.-Gen. Andre Deschamps told the House of Commons defence committee that Russia is already building a "fifth-generation" fighter — which is what the F-35 is — and that China is expected to build one too.

If the planned purchase is cancelled, he told MPs, Canada's air force would become "irrelevant" for defence missions with the United States and other countries in the NATO military alliance, many of whom are also buying the Lockheed-Martin aircraft.



Deschamps was responding to Conservative MPs' attempts to undermine Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff's announcement Wednesday that he would cancel the project and hold a competition for a jet to replace Canada's aging CF-18 fleet.



Opposition MPs repeatedly sought assurances from Deschamps and Col. Dave Burt, acting project manager for the F-35, that there are strong controls in place to prevent a repeat of the cost overruns, significant delivery delays and lack of oversight found by the auditor general in the government's $11-billion purchase of Chinook and Cyclone helicopters and associated operating and maintenance contracts.

"Why should we feel more comfortable this time?" asked Toronto Liberal MP Ken Dryden.

"We don't want to end up with this costing us $32 billion someday," said Parti Quebecois defence critic Claude Bachand.

Deschamps became testy when Bachand pressed him to provide to MPs, behind closed doors if necessary, classified information about the F-35's technical capabilities.



"You're implying that we don't know what we're doing," Deschamps told him. "Please don't tell us that we don't know what we're doing."



Burt said an F-35 project management office was set up two weeks ago and teams to oversee the project are being assembled.



Auditor General Sheila Fraser told the House of Commons public accounts committee that the military and government spending authorities will have to properly assess risks, requirements and the range of costs for operating and maintaining the F-35s.

The government has not yet signed a contract to buy the jets but expects delivery to start in 2016, gradually retiring the F-18 fleet by 2020.

Spurred by the findings on the helicopters, Fraser has decided to audit the F-35 process. Some of the Chinook costs were so underestimated that she said the military might have to reallocate funds to cover operating and maintenance costs.

http://www.dailyairforce.com/386/F35-buy-could-trigger-Arctic-arms-race-Expert.html

 

[Neil]

UCAVs to Influence U.K. F-35C Buy

The development of next generation combat UAVs along with the health of the Royal Air Force's current fighter fleet will be key factors in determining how many F-35C Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters the United Kingdom buys in the coming years, a senior British defense official said today.

"We know the number of F-35s we need" for a carrier air wing but have yet to decide on how many ground based JSFs are needed to perform "deep and persistent" missions, Gen. Nicholas Houghton, vice chief of the British defense staff said during a presentation in Washington sponsored by the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

To this end, British officials will weigh progress made in fielding unmanned combat air vehicles (UCAVs) in the next five years against the service lives of the island nation's fleet of existing fighters when determining Britain's F-35 buy.

These questions will ultimately be answered when the U.K. conducts its next strategic defense revue in 2015, according to the general.

The Royal Air Force plans to eventually operate fly a fleet of Eurofighter Typhoons and F-35s. The Typhoon is already replacing the RAF's F3 air superiority-variant Tornadoes while the GR4 ground attack variant will eventually be replaced by F-35s.

Meanwhile, a desire for increased range, payload and interoperability with the United States and French navies combined with concerns about rising costs led to last month's decision by the United Kingdom to swap its planned buy of 138 short take-off and vertical landing F-35B-model JSFs for an unspecified number of F-35C carrier variants, Houghton said.

The desire to keep costs down and get more performance out of U.K. F-35s combined with the fact that British naval aviators could be training for carrier operations on U.S. and French aircraft carriers for the next decade "played into the discussion and ultimately the decision" by London to trade JSF variants, Houghton said.

All of this comes amid reports that the beleaguered fighter program may need as much as $2.5 to $5 billion in additional funding and will face several years worth of delays, with the B-version of the plane slipping by as much as three years.

http://dailyairforce.com/399/UCAVs-to-Influence-UK-F35C-Buy.html

 

[Neil]

First Navy F-35 Arrives At Pax River

The first F-35C Lightning II carrier variant, the U.S. Navy's first stealth fighter, arrived at Naval Air Station (NAS) Patuxent River, Md., on Saturday, Nov. 6 at 2:37 p.m. The aircraft, piloted by David "Doc" Nelson, departed NAS Fort Worth Joint Reserve Base at 11:31 a.m. (Eastern) and achieved successful air refuels at a maximum load of 19,800 pounds during the flight. At Patuxent River, the F-35C will conduct air-to-air refueling and performance testing.

The Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II is a family of fifth-generation, single-seat, single-engine stealth multirole fighters. When it enters service it will be one of the most advanced fighter aircraft in the world, performing ground attack, reconnaissance, and air defense missions. The F-35 has three main models; one is a conventional takeoff and landing variant, the second is a short take off and vertical-landing variant, and the third is a carrier-based variant.


http://www.defenceaviation.com/2010...aign=Feed:+DefenceAviation+(Defence+Aviation)

 

[Neil]

Default Major F-35B Component Cracks In Fatigue Test

The aft bulkhead of the F-35B BH-1 fatigue-test specimen has developed cracks after 1,500 hours of durability testing, Ares has learned. This is less than one-tenth of the planned fatigue test program, which is designed to prove an 8,000-hour airframe life with a safety factor of two.

The bulkhead design was modified in the course of the jet's weight-saving redesign in 2004-05, switching from forged titanium - proven on the F-22 - to a new aluminum forging process developed by Alcoa.

According to Lockheed Martin,"the cracks were discovered during a special inspection when a test engineer discovered an anomaly." The company says that flight-test aircraft have been inspected and found crack-free and that flight testing has not been affected.

Engineers are still investigating the failure and it is not yet known whether the cracks reflect a design fault, a test problem (for example, a condition on the rig that does not reproduce design conditions) or a faulty part.

If the bulkhead design is found to be at fault, it will be a serious setback for the F-35B program, potentially imposing flight restrictions on aircraft already in the pipeline or requiring expensive changes on the assembly line.

Six F-35Bs are included in the LRIP-2 contract, now in the mate or final assembly stage, and nine in the 17-aircraft LRIP-3 batch - which are intended to support initial Marine Corps training and operations. If a redesign is necessary it could also delay deliveries of LRIP-4 aircraft.

Bulkheads are a major structural component of the F-35, carrying the major spanwise bending loads on the aircraft. They are produced from forgings weighing thousands of pounds, which are machined into the final shape. They are among the longest lead-time items in the airframe, being built into mid-body sections produced by Northrop Grumman.

The F-35A and F-35C bulkheads are still made of titanium, as are similar bulkheads on the F-22.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blog...&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

 

[Neil]

F-35 review results imminent, says Lockheed Martin

Lockheed Martin expects to learn the outcome of a recent review into its F-35 Joint Strike Fighter programme around mid-December, as it also starts adjusting to a major shift announced by its main international partner, the UK.

The US Defense Acquisition Board met in late November to discuss potential cost and schedule overruns on the F-35, believed to have been outlined during a technical baseline review. With the outcome of their recommendations to be included in the next fiscal year budget, it had been thought that details would not emerge until early next year.

"The budget is going to lock down in the next couple of weeks, and my sense is that we are going to get strong support out of the Department of Defense," says Tom Burbage, Lockheed's executive vice-president F-35 programmes. "I don't expect to hear anything as dramatic as a variant change," he adds, referring to suggestions that the short take-off and vertical landing B-model could be cancelled.

Meanwhile, Burbage is confident that problems now facing the programme will soon be overcome. "The issues will all be non-issues within a year," he says. "If the team we have assembled can't solve them then they can't be solved."

Separately, Burbage says Lockheed was relieved at the outcome of the UK's recent Strategic Defence and Security Review, even though it included a "somewhat unexpected" change from the STOVL F-35B to the larger F-35C carrier variant (below). "We were thankful to see that with the budget process being as tough as it was that the programme came through," he says.

The UK is expected to sign its first production order for the F-35 around mid-2012, with Burbage saying this should be for an initial batch of seven aircraft. A contract for another nine would then be due in 2014; the year before the UK's next planned defence review. Only after this has taken place does the company expect to learn about the UK's total planned buy for the JSF, which stands at a projected 138 aircraft.

Meanwhile, Burbage reveals that the UK has requested if its order for a third F-35B to support joint initial operational test and evaluation activities could be switched to an F-35C. Lockheed is investigating options in a bid to assist its customer, but Burbage notes that long-lead items for the STOVL aircraft - including its Rolls-Royce Liftfan propulsion system - were ordered around 18 months ago.


http://www.flightglobal.com/article...ew-results-imminent-says-lockheed-martin.html

 

[Patriot]

F-35 partly recovers flight test record in 2010, but fresh obstacles await

The Lockheed Martin F-35 will pass the fourth anniversary of its first flight on 15 December with a test programme surging forward but facing new challenges in 2011, says chief test pilot Jon Beesley.

Set for retirement on 1 February, Beesley has overseen a dramatic expansion of sorties flown in 2010. After completing about 130 sorties in the first three years of flight testing combined, Lockheed expects that seven aircraft representing all three F-35 variants should surpass an unofficial goal of 394 tests this year alone.

As the test fleet finally swells to 14 aircraft by July - a roughly six-month delay - programme officials are preparing to meet fresh problems.

In particular, three aircraft flying with Block 1 software will strain the F-35's thermal management system as never before, Beesley says. The aircraft's electrical and power system radiates heat that must be cooled or dumped into "heat sinks", such as fuel. The challenge is most acute when the F-35 taxis on hot days.

"So far the (F-35's thermal management) concept seems to have worked well," Beesley says, but adds: "When it gets to be 105°F (40.6°C), that's when you want to look at it. It's a great question to ask by the end of next summer and see how did it go."

Another key challenge will be overcoming the "struggling" short take-off and vertical landing F-35B variant. BAE Systems test pilot Graham Tomlinson memorably completed the first vertical landing on 18 March, but such tests have been halted since September after Lockheed found unexpected wear on auxiliary inlet door hinges.

That restriction could be lifted during the week of 13 December, Beesley says, although Lockheed must first "go through a few more wickets" to receive approval from the F-35 joint programme office.

The F-35B is now scheduled to begin vertical landing tests aboard an amphibious carrier in "the fall" of 2011, Beesley says. That means the schedule has slipped by six months since July, when programme officials disclosed the milestone was due in March 2011.

But perhaps the biggest challenge of all will be to sustain the momentum of test sorties per aircraft. The two conventional take-off and landing aircraft currently flying have averaged about 10 sorties per month, Beesley says.

Last June, a senior Lockheed official projected that the total number of test flights would grow from nearly 400 in 2010 to about 1,000 next year. Beesley, however, is non-committal about a goal for flight-test numbers.

"I don't know what the goal is next year," Beesley says. "I very seldom think about number of flights. That might be the most meaningless metric there is."





http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/12/09/350766/f-35-partly-recovers-flight-test-record-in-2010-but-fresh-obstacles.html

 

[Patriot]

F-35B Delays, Plus Philosophy

Updates on the F-35B this week: Bloomberg reports that testing and initial operational capability for the short take off, vertical landing fighter will be delayed two years under the current review of the program.

That will presumably go along with changes to the flight test program, taking resources away from the F-35B program and using them instead to support testing of the F-35A and F-35C. Whether that will be enough to recover the March 2010 schedule, given the continued slow deliveries of test aircraft, remains to be seen.

It's also significant that (quoted in the Bloomberg piece) Lockheed Martin consultant Loren Thompson spins a two-year delay, in a program that is four years late, as good news.

Meanwhile, Marine Commandant Gen James Amos issued a strong defense of the F-35B in a townhall meeting with Marines at MCAS Miramar yesterday - saying that pressure on the budget would mean that more Marines will be forced to live on base, in barracks, so that the Marines can afford the most expensive US fighter in current plans.

"Can we buy this piece of equipment that we need for war fighting or am I going to spend the money to make life comfortable on Marines so that they can live off base? I am about to reach a point where I can't do both at the same time," Amos said.

However, Amos supported this call for sacrifice with an argument that is weak at best: "If the F-35B doesn't make it, for whatever reason, then our nation is going to have only 11 Navy aircraft carriers with fifth generation airplanes, instead of 22."

We know that Marines are big on philosophy, but this argument is a classic case of "begging the question", or taking as true what needs to be proven. In this case, Amos' words imply that an LHA-class ship with F-35Bs is somehow equivalent to a carrier, but it isn't, either quantitatively or qualitatively.

As Navy documents cited in a previous post show, the baseline future carrier air wing has 49 fighters and Growlers, and the equivalent Marine air combat element has six F-35Bs. (Any more than that and you have to offload V-22s and helicopters at a rate of one-to-one or higher.)

More importantly, is anyone ever going to send a Marine expeditionary force up against any serious opposition without a carrier in the background? And in this case the carrier's fighters are only part of the question: only the Hawkeyes provide over-the-horizon warning of cruise missile attacks, and as the Israeli Navy found in 2006, cruise missiles can turn up in places you don't expect them, and by the time they pop over the horizon, the best terminal defenses are racing against time. And an LHA or LHD is not exactly a hard target to discriminate.

The Thales, Boeing and US Navy people who came up with the unfortunately named TOSS concept a few years back had this problem figured out, but nobody (least of all the Corps) paid any attention to it.






http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a57e5980c-7c6d-4175-9b2f-781584885444&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

 

[chex3009]

F-35 will be no match for the Chinese J-20 : Retired USAF Lt. Gen

The Chinese have deliberately and very cleverly leaked their new fifth generation stealth fighter, the J-20, just in time for Secretary of Defense Gates' long delayed visit to Beijing this Sunday.

This is another move by the Chinese to subtly send the current American administration and our Asian allies signals that they are investing heavily in military capabilities that will dominate Asia in the future.

Could we see the first flight of this prototype during Secretary Gates visit or perhaps even when President Hu Jintao visits Washington on January 19? This is a very interesting question but it is clear to me that these important visits are linked with these initial sightings of the J-20 at the Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute's airfield.

The J-20 looks like a knockoff of the USAF's FB-22 that Lockheed proposed in 2002. It makes sense that it would now shows up as a prototype, almost ten years later, in China a country that has been the single biggest leader in cyber-espionage in the world.

Make no mistake, with China as our single leading creditor nation, the country has been moving forward aggressively to build a very creditable anti-access/anti-denial (AAAD) capability that is outstripping our capabilities to operate in the Taiwan Straits or the Chinese littoral.

The addition of the DF-21B Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM) — which is already operational according to Admiral Willard, Commander of Pacific Command — is alarming. This capability, coupled with the J-20 stealth fighter (although not operational for a number of years), presents American and Allied Forces in the region with a formidable threat to our carrier battle groups and our decreasing Air Force tactical and bomber forces.
On any given day we would be lucky to have 70 F-22s and 5 B-2s operationally available worldwide plus the new F-35 which will be no match for the J-20. Shades of 1939 are here again.

The Obama administration's decision to kill the F-22 production line in April 2009 without a whimper from a Democratically-controlled Congress does not look very good now. I can assure our readers it will have huge adverse consequences in the future. Alarm bells should be going off in the new Republican Congress. I hope they are not in denial like their predecessors.

The quickest solution would be to insert funding for 12 F-22s into the 2011 budget that is under a Continuing Resolution now while the F-22 line is still open — and keep that line going as a counter to this fast developing Chinese threat.

Our Japanese and Australian allies in the Pacific would be delighted to buy this superb stealth fighter aircraft if we would only let them. Burden sharing by our allies is going to be even more important for stability in Asia in the future.

Secretary Gates' and President Hu Jintao's visits and discussions will further reveal that the Chinese have a different vision of their future position in Asia than the United States and our allies had previously imagined.

Bottom line: Beware America, time is running out!

http://idrw.org/?p=2240

 

[Tshering22]

^^I don't understand what's the crazy out of control hysteria all about for the J-20. The jet has just been released now and its not even shown flying. It is very easy to understand that at least it won't be inducted before another 10 years go by no matter how fast Chinese assembling lines for it are.If at all J-20 plans to match the Raptor as PLAAF would want it to be. A stealth jet is more than just a design which is why even AMCA's development I believe is being released on need-to-know basis to our often yellow-tongued media (almost something like the Arihant secrecy).

While I want to say that the frontal design of J-20 is amazing, blending the low observable design concepts of Raptor nose and JSF engine inlets to reduce signals, the same inlets are right now are attached with huge and I mean HUGE frontal canards that almost undo the whole engine inlet rework. Not to mention that the J-20 is itself humungous in size-- more like a MiG-25 Foxbat that if we see physically, adds to the radar signature issue. To reduce this, Chengdu will have to put massive amounts of RAM all over its structure, making its per-flight costs high; something that PLAAF doesn't want since it believes in quantitative showdown strongly (alongside quality now).

F-35 on the other hand is a totally different ball game. It has some very advanced sensors and EW systems that enable it to conduct attacks much before they have to drop the bomb on the ground. The only problem JSF has it that it is slow, less maneuverable has less armament and has very less range.

But the comparison is stupid in first place since no F-35 wielding nation will ever be fighting the Chinese--- yes not even India since F-35 will be a 3rd stealth platform which nobody can afford in the indigenous-focused IN or the confused-IAF.

 

[civfanatic]

F-35 will be no match for the Chinese J-20 : Retired USAF Lt. Gen

The Chinese have deliberately and very cleverly leaked their new fifth generation stealth fighter, the J-20, just in time for Secretary of Defense Gates' long delayed visit to Beijing this Sunday.

This is another move by the Chinese to subtly send the current American administration and our Asian allies signals that they are investing heavily in military capabilities that will dominate Asia in the future.

Could we see the first flight of this prototype during Secretary Gates visit or perhaps even when President Hu Jintao visits Washington on January 19? This is a very interesting question but it is clear to me that these important visits are linked with these initial sightings of the J-20 at the Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute's airfield.

The J-20 looks like a knockoff of the USAF's FB-22 that Lockheed proposed in 2002. It makes sense that it would now shows up as a prototype, almost ten years later, in China a country that has been the single biggest leader in cyber-espionage in the world.

Make no mistake, with China as our single leading creditor nation, the country has been moving forward aggressively to build a very creditable anti-access/anti-denial (AAAD) capability that is outstripping our capabilities to operate in the Taiwan Straits or the Chinese littoral.

The addition of the DF-21B Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM) — which is already operational according to Admiral Willard, Commander of Pacific Command — is alarming. This capability, coupled with the J-20 stealth fighter (although not operational for a number of years), presents American and Allied Forces in the region with a formidable threat to our carrier battle groups and our decreasing Air Force tactical and bomber forces.
On any given day we would be lucky to have 70 F-22s and 5 B-2s operationally available worldwide plus the new F-35 which will be no match for the J-20. Shades of 1939 are here again.

The Obama administration's decision to kill the F-22 production line in April 2009 without a whimper from a Democratically-controlled Congress does not look very good now. I can assure our readers it will have huge adverse consequences in the future. Alarm bells should be going off in the new Republican Congress. I hope they are not in denial like their predecessors.

The quickest solution would be to insert funding for 12 F-22s into the 2011 budget that is under a Continuing Resolution now while the F-22 line is still open — and keep that line going as a counter to this fast developing Chinese threat.

Our Japanese and Australian allies in the Pacific would be delighted to buy this superb stealth fighter aircraft if we would only let them. Burden sharing by our allies is going to be even more important for stability in Asia in the future.

Secretary Gates' and President Hu Jintao's visits and discussions will further reveal that the Chinese have a different vision of their future position in Asia than the United States and our allies had previously imagined.

Bottom line: Beware America, time is running out!

http://idrw.org/?p=2240

This is just a ploy to revive the F-22 program.

Does anyone actually believe the J-20 will be superior to the F-35?

 

[Armand2REP]

This is just a ploy to revive the F-22 program.

Does anyone actually believe the J-20 will be superior to the F-35?

Have you noticed how LARGE the J-20 is? It is so huge it won't be doing much dog fighting at all. With a pair of WS-10 engines it won't be supercruising either. The canards are large causing huge drag + increased frontal RCS. There is nothing stealthy from the rear aspect. Two things the Chinese did better than the Russians was contouring and actually making a bubble canopy. Other than that, it is a flying brick compared to PAK FA. Its role is really as a strike fighter like the F-117. It won't hold up in an air duel without an AESA and that is a long way out of China's reach. They are still buying Russian PESA for J-10s. lol

 

[civfanatic]

Have you noticed how LARGE the J-20 is? It is so huge it won't be doing much dog fighting at all. With a pair of WS-10 engines it won't be supercruising either. The canards are large causing huge drag + increased frontal RCS. There is nothing stealthy from the rear aspect. Two things the Chinese did better than the Russians was contouring and actually making a bubble canopy. Other than that, it is a flying brick compared to PAK FA. Its role is really as a strike fighter like the F-117. It won't hold up in an air duel without an AESA and that is a long way out of China's reach. They are still buying Russian PESA for J-10s. lol

I think it's fair to say that the J-20 is FAR from being operational, and even farther from being a credible threat to other fifth-gen aircraft in existence and under development.

 

[chex3009]

US puts F-35 STOVL variant on two-year probation

Lockheed Martin might need to redesign the short take-off and vertical-landing (STOVL) variant of the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, and F-35 orders will stay flat in fiscal year 2012 (FY12), US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates announced on 6 January.

The US Navy's Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fleet may be bulked up to replace F-35s as they are redesigned.

Gates announced the F-35 setbacks as part of a broader budget speech at the Pentagon in which he proposed shrinking the US Department of Defense (DoD) budget over the next five years.

He said that the US Marine Corps (USMC) F-35B STOVL variant is "experiencing significant testing problems" that "could add more weight and more cost to an aircraft that has little capacity to absorb more of either".

As a result, he said he would place the STOVL variant on a "two-year probation", which would be followed by cancellation if problems with performance, cost and schedule were not resolved.

He also said that the development of the F-35B would be moved to the back of the F-35 production sequence and that more US Navy (USN) Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft would be ordered to fill the void.

Under Gates' plan, overall production of the F-35 - which comes in the conventional take-off and landing (CTOL) F-35A variant, the F-35C carrier variant (CV) and F-35B - would remain the same in FY12 at 32 aircraft.

http://www.janes.com/news/defence/air/jdw/jdw110110_1_n.shtml

 

[badguy2000]

Have you noticed how LARGE the J-20 is? It is so huge it won't be doing much dog fighting at all. With a pair of WS-10 engines it won't be supercruising either. The canards are large causing huge drag + increased frontal RCS. There is nothing stealthy from the rear aspect. Two things the Chinese did better than the Russians was contouring and actually making a bubble canopy. Other than that, it is a flying brick compared to PAK FA. Its role is really as a strike fighter like the F-117. It won't hold up in an air duel without an AESA and that is a long way out of China's reach. They are still buying Russian PESA for J-10s. lol

yes ,you eyes-watching is more useful than thousands of windy-tunnel tests in CHina labs.