F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[lookieloo]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

...USN made the right decision by going for the SH for its long range strike requirement. Hornet cannot fill that role and neither can JSF...

You must live in an alternate reality Prada. A simple wiki search turns up the SH combat radius as 390 nm. At ~600 nm, the F-35C has that beat by a fair margin and still isn't considered "long range." The USN will have to wait until UCLASS reaches service before it regains the legs it had with the A-6.

 

[p2prada]

This link talks of engine removal time for F/A-18 Hornet.

New Aircraft Ii - Florian Ion Petrescu, Relly Victoria Petrescu - Google Books

The F404 engine connects to the airframe at only 10 points and can be replaced without special equipment; a four person team can remove the engine within 20 minutes.

The F-414 "may" better it. Overall, I don't really see a difference in 30 minutes and 60 minutes.

 

[lookieloo]

This link talks of engine removal time for F/A-18 Hornet.

New Aircraft Ii - Florian Ion Petrescu, Relly Victoria Petrescu - Google Books



The F-414 "may" better it. Overall, I don't really see a difference in 30 minutes and 60 minutes.

Good link, but wrong thread methinks.

 

[cobra commando]

Australia heaps praise on F-35, says rivals years behind | Reuters

 

[p2prada]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

You must live in an alternate reality Prada. A simple wiki search turns up the SH combat radius as 390 nm. At ~600 nm, the F-35C has that beat by a fair margin and still isn't considered "long range." The USN will have to wait until UCLASS reaches service before it regains the legs it had with the A-6.

Incorrect, since you are comparing only internal fuel. SH will fly with two big tanks, always. SH has a range of 1800NMI vs F-35Cs 1400NMI. At the same time SH can carry more weapons since it is not reliant on stealth. Adding external weapons would remove F-35s advantages over SH and not at a cost that permits its inclusion in the force. Meaning, no point inducting a stealth aircraft at a higher cost and then lose that stealth advantage during war. Hence why USN needs an aircraft that equals SH in range while carrying more payload.

SH can carry two fuel tanks and still have 3 heavy hardpoints while F-35 has two internal hardpoints which are size restricted.

Nevertheless, I would still say F-35C is the better aircraft for a host of other features, regardless of the lesser range.

 

[p2prada]

Good link, but wrong thread methinks.

Hmm, why is it here? I posted it in the Rafale thread.

 

[p2prada]

Australia heaps praise on F-35, says rivals years behind | Reuters

"Let me tell you, I don't think that they have the level of stealth that's available in U.S. fifth generation aircraft, and it's by a significant factor," Air Marshal Brown told lawmakers.

That will help me sleep at night, I think.

"Both PAK FA, J-20 and J-31 are possibly where we were in excess of 10-12 years ago in their development time frames, so all those aeroplanes have still got a long, long way to go," Brown said.

I wonder what our Air Marshal Browne has to say about it.

 

[asianobserve]

 

[asianobserve]

Australia heaps praise on F-35, says rivals years behind | Reuters

He must be talking based on direct knowledge and assessment of the F-35 Program, as compared to arm chair internet "experts"...

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

USAF may move F-35A IOC earlier

The U.S. Air Force plans to start operational use of Lockheed Martin Corp.-built (LMT.N) F-35 fighter jets in mid-2016, a year earlier than planned, using a similar software package as the Marine Corps, two sources familiar with the plans said on Monday.

The Air Force's decision to accelerate its introduction with a slightly less capable version of the F-35 software package means the planes will carry fewer weapons at first, although the software will later be upgraded to the final version, said the sources, who were not authorized to speak publicly.

Air Force spokeswoman Ann Stefanek said a final decision had not been made and declined to comment further. A spokesman for the Pentagon's F-35 program office declined to comment.

The decision reflects the military's desire to start using the new warplanes, which are already rolling off the assembly line at Lockheed's sprawling Fort Worth, Texas, plant, even as military officials continue to test the plane.

"This decision gets that (U.S.) fifth-generation capability out on the front lines that much sooner," said one of the sources familiar with the Air Force's plans. "It also sends a message about confidence in the program to Congress and the international partners."

Former Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne said accelerating operational use of the new warplane would allow the Air Force to learn more about the F-35"²s integrated battle management system.

"This is not just about replacing aging F-15"²s or F-16"²s; it is about changing the order of battle and truly embracing a integrated form of warfare where the F-35 manages the targeting and directs supporting fire at the same time as providing more precise aim points," Wynne told Reuters in an email.

The Air Force, Marines and Navy must report to Congress by June 1 on their target dates for initial operational capability, or IOC, which marks the point when the services have enough planes on hand to go to war if needed. Actual deployments usually lag IOC dates by about a year.

The sources said the services would send Congress a list of target or "objective" dates for declaring initial operational capability and a list of "threshold" dates, or deadlines.

The Marines Corps is sticking to its plan to begin early operational use in mid-2015 of its F-35B jets, which can take off and land like a helicopter. It will be the first of the three U.S. military services to start using the jets.

Its threshold is the end of 2015. The planes will run the F-35"²s 2B software, which will give the Marines an initial war fighting capability that includes some air-to-air skills, the ability to strike targets on the ground and carry several internal weapons, including laser-guided bombs.

Lockheed on Monday said one of its F-35 B-model planes completed the first-ever vertical takeoff on May 10, demonstrating a capability needed for repositioning jets in areas where they cannot perform a short takeoff.

The Navy has set mid-2018 for starting operational use of its C-model F-35, which is designed for use aboard U.S. aircraft carriers. Its deadline or threshold date is early 2019.

The Air Force decision marks a reversal from its earlier insistence that it needed the final 3F software package and comes after a Pentagon report cited China's development of two new fifth generation fighters over the past year.

The Air Force began studying the possible change several months ago. Lieutenant General Charles Davis told reporters in March that it might make sense to declare initial operating capability earlier than initially planned, given that the weapons on board would be suitable for basic war fighting needs.

The Air Force will have about 100 F-35s by 2016, when it plans to declare the planes ready for operational use.

The Pentagon's program chief, Lieutenant General Christopher Bogdan, told lawmakers last month he was "moderately confident" that the 2B software — and the associated 3I software being developed for international buyers — would be completed in time for the planned Marine Corps IOC in mid-2015.

The Air Force jets would use the 3I software, which will include a technology refresh with improved memory processors for some sensors on board.

Bogdan said it was not as clear that work on the final software package would be done in 2017, when the Air Force initially planned to declare IOC.

The final 3F software will support use of the aircraft's full war fighting capability, with additional internal and external weapons, and more advanced air-to-air and air-to-ground capabilities.

Exclusive: U.S. Air Force to move forward target date for F-35 use | Reuters

 

[lookieloo]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Incorrect... [blah, blah... "that doesn't fit how I think USN TACOPS should work"... blah, blah]

Nope. Pretty sure I emphasized combat radius, but suit yourself. It won't make the Shornet's legs in actual combat any longer.

 

[lookieloo]

USAF may move F-35A IOC earlier

Exclusive: U.S. Air Force to move forward target date for F-35 use | Reuters

Well, strictly speaking, this means that IOC will be 4 years late instead of 6, with fewer aircraft and fewer capabilities. It might also mean that the USAF is worried about Lockheed's ability to deliver the full software package by 2018. In which case, it would be better to just declare the thing operational with 2B in order to get the general media off their back while they sort out 3F at their own pace.

 

[p2prada]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Nope. Pretty sure I emphasized combat radius, but suit yourself. It won't make the Shornet's legs in actual combat any longer.

Divide range by two and you get combat radius. You were comparing internal fuel combat radius, I pointed out that its wrong since SH carries tanks.

 

[lookieloo]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Divide range by two and you get combat radius. You were comparing internal fuel combat radius, I pointed out that its wrong since SH carries tanks.

Sorry bub, it's not that simple. Also, where did I indicate I was comparing internal-fuel capabilities, and what difference does that make? Realize that the F-35 can also carry new area-ruled bags for even more reach than a SH with bugger-all fuel hanging cocked half-face in the slipstream. Hell, if the threat is high, they can always have the F-35 punch tanks and pylons. Either way, the SH is incapable of matching the F-35's range for a given mission-set.

Range has been a fundamental limitation of the Hornet line since it began, and not even the SH has been able to overcome it fully. Further upgrades (conformal tanks, new engines) will help keep the type relevant for the rest of its service life, at which point the F-35C will have finished replacing the ABCD bugs. That's when the interesting part comes... what will replace the EFGs? I see little indication that an all-new F/A-XX platform is in serious consideration; such a plane would be further along than concept-art by now.

 

[p2prada]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Sorry bub, it's not that simple. Also, where did I indicate I was comparing internal-fuel capabilities, and what difference does that make? Realize that the F-35 can also carry new area-ruled bags for even more reach than a SH with bugger-all fuel hanging cocked half-face in the slipstream. Hell, if the threat is high, they can always have the F-35 punch tanks and pylons. Either way, the SH is incapable of matching the F-35's range for a given mission-set.

Range has been a fundamental limitation of the Hornet line since it began, and not even the SH has been able to overcome it fully. Further upgrades (conformal tanks, new engines) will help keep the type relevant for the rest of its service life, at which point the F-35C will have finished replacing the ABCD bugs. That's when the interesting part comes... what will replace the EFGs? I see little indication that an all-new F/A-XX platform is in serious consideration; such a plane would be further along than concept-art by now.

This is why you should read what I post.

1) SH with tanks will out-range F-35, in both range and combat radius. We are talking about 10.5 tonnes of fuel on SH vs 8.8 tonnes of fuel on F-35C.

2) The reason why I give 3 tanks to SH while none to F-35 is for the simple reason that the F-35 will lose a lot of its advertised capability.

If you combine points one and two you will notice two things. SH's advertised capabilities give it greater range and radius. F-35s advertised capabilities do not allow it the advantage of EFTs which will render it less capable at the cost it is being procured for. If you really want to fly F-35s with tanks, then USN is better off replacing SH Block 2s with SH Block 3s with EFTs, CFTs and EWPs at a lesser cost instead of buying the more expensive F-35C. That will give you more range at lesser cost.

3) USN will want an aircraft that can match SH's flexibility with F-35s capabilities. F/A-XX is the answer, in any form, be it LM's F-35C Mk2 or Boeing's SH replacement program. LM can always make the F-35 larger than it is. My point being, F-35C isn't a direct replacement for SH.

 

[cobra commando]

Italy's ruling party divided over order for F-35 combat jets


Italy's ruling party divided over order for F-35 combat jets | Reuters

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

Pentagon submits F-35s IOC dates to U.S. Congress

The Pentagon is revealing the initial operational capability (IOC) dates for the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) in a new report to the US Congress delivered on 31 May, as required by law.

The US Air Force, the largest US Department of Defense (DOD) customer for the tri-service jet, will declare its F-35A variant operational in 2016. "If the F-35 Integrated Master Schedule (IMS) Version 7 executes according to plan, Air Force F-35A IOC criteria could be met between August 2016 (Objective) and December 2016 (Threshold)," the report says.

The USAF IOC date is a departure from the service's earlier insistence that it would require the full capabilities of the jet's final Block 3F configuration to declare IOC, which is expected to complete development in the later part of 2017 according to the Pentagon's 2012 F-35 selected acquisition report. That means that the USAF plans to declare IOC with either the earlier Block 2B software load or with Block 3i, which is the same configuration rehosted on newer avionics hardware. However, the report does not explicitly state which configuration the USAF will use upon declaring IOC.

The USAF criteria for IOC consists of standing up the first operational F-35A squadron equipped with between 12 and 24 aircraft and with enough train personnel "to conduct basic close air support (CAS), interdiction, and limited suppression and destruction of enemy air defense (SEAD/DEAD) operations in a contested environment."

However, the USAF does note it needs the full Block 3F capability later. "The criteria stated above will provide sufficient initial combat capability for the threat postulated in 2016," the report reads. "However, in order to meet the full spectrum of Joint warfighter requirements in future years, the Air Force will require the enhanced lethality and survivability inherent in Blocks 3F and beyond."

The US Marine Corps, meanwhile, is sticking to its plan to declare IOC with the Block 2B configuration in 2015. "If the F-35 IMS Version 7 executes according to plan, Marine Corps F-35B IOC criteria could be met between July 2015 (Objective) and December 2015 (Threshold)," the report states.

The Marines will declare IOC when the first squadron of between 10 and 16 aircraft is trained and ready "to conduct CAS, offensive and defensive counter air, air Interdiction, assault support escort, and armed reconnaissance in concert with Marine Air Ground Task Force resources and capabilities". The USMC also requires the jet's Autonomic Logistic Information System V2 software to declare IOC. Like the USAF, the Marines require Block 3F for their future needs, the report says.

The US Navy however is holding firm on requiring the full Block 3F configuration for its F-35C IOC date. "If the F-35 IMS Version 7 executes according to plan, Navy F-35C IOC criteria could be met between August 2018 (Objective) and February 2019 (Threshold)," the report reads.

USN F-35C IOC is expected to be declared when the first operational squadron of 10 aircraft is manned, trained, and equipped to conduct its assigned missions. "The aircraft will be in a Block 3F configuration with the requisite SDD [system development and demonstration] performance envelope and weapon clearances," the report reads. The USN says that it must have the Block 3F configuration to deal with threats in the post-2018 environment.

F-35 IOC dates revealed - The DEW Line

 

[p2prada]

U.S. military reveals timing of future F-35 fighter's use to Congress | Reuters

(Reuters) - America's newest warplane, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, will reach operational milestones in 2015 for the Marine Corps, 2016 for the Air Force and 2019 for the Navy, according to details formally provided to the U.S. Congress on Friday.

Those are the dates that Lockheed Martin's F-35 will achieve initial operational capability - the point when the services have enough planes on hand to go to war if needed.

Actual deployments usually lag initial operational capability (IOC) dates by about a year.

Reuters previously reported rough dates, citing sources familiar with the plans.

Friday's congressional rollout made the dates official, despite ongoing concerns about the cost and technical maturity of the world's most expensive weapons system.

Congress was told the following, according to the Pentagon:

- The Marine Corps F-35B will reach the IOC milestone by December 2015.

- The Air Force's F-35A will reach the IOC milestone by December 2016.

- The Navy's F-35C, attached to carrier air wings, will reach the IOC milestone by February 2019.

Overall, the original IOC specs will be met only in 2019 with the Block 3F software. That means both the Marines and USAF will induct a IOC-1 aircraft before upgrading it to IOC-2 specs in 2019. OTOH, USN will wait for the 2019 IOC date for F-35C.

I wonder what the other export customers will do, especially Israel, Australia and Turkey.

 

[p2prada]

USMC will replace 238 F/A-18 Hornets and 126+16 Harrier IIs with 340 F-35B and 80 F-35C. The 80 F-35Cs will operate from USN carriers and will replace F-18 Hornets. The F-35Bs will operate from Landing Helicopter Docks and shore facilities.

USN has 400+ F/A-18 Hornets, 565 F/A-18 Super Hornets. Most of the Hornets will be replaced with 260 F-35C.

USAF has 350 odd A-10, 250 odd F-15C/D, 250 odd F-15E/F and some 1000 odd F-16. Except for some squadrons of A-10, most of the other aircraft are set to be replaced with 1763 F-35A and 187 F-22.

That's pretty much it for a 2037 US fighter strength.

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

U.S. Air Force Agrees To Accept F-35 With Limited Software and Weapons Capability | idrw.org


U.S. Air Force Agrees To Accept F-35 With Limited Software and Weapons Capability


The U.S. Air Force, by far the largest presumed user of the F-35 fighter, has agreed to declare initial operational capability with a much more limited software and weapons capability that initially planned, according to a report sent to Congress May 31.

The Air Force now plans to declare initial operational capability (IOC) with 12 F-35As (and trained pilots and maintainers) in December 2016, before the long-awaited 3F software package is fully tested. The service previously planned to wait for the 3F package because it allows for an expanded engagement envelope and more diverse weapons.

The 3F release adds capabilities that are key to the F-35's core mission, such as multi-ship suppression, destruction of enemy air defenses and new air-to-air and air-to-ground modes. This package also will include the full complement of weapons carried internally and externally on the aircraft. It is slated for inclusion on the LRIP 9 aircraft, and is expected for delivery at the end of the development program in 2017.

"This [plan] is capability based" and the 3I software satisfies the service's initial needs, says an Air Force spokeswoman. "We still believe we need 3F for full mission capability."

In testimony to Congress this spring, F-35 Program Executive Officer Air Force Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan said there is "moderate" risk in prime contractor Lockheed Martin delivering the 2B/3I package in 2015, while he acknowledged more risk in meeting the 3F schedule two years later.

"The F-35 is a vital capability that the nation needs to stay ahead of adversary technological gains, and it provides the multi-role capabilities that the anti-access and area denial environment of the future will require," said USAF Gen. Mark Welsh, Air Force chief of staff.

The Air Force plans to buy 1,763 F-35As; the A-model is expected to be the largest international seller to JSF partners as well as Israel, Japan and, possibly, Singapore.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Marine Corps is planning to declare IOC with 10 F-35Bs, designed for short takeoff and vertical landing (Stovl), as well as trained pilots, maintainers and support equipment, in December 2015. This is a slight shift of the most recent plan to attempt an IOC in summer 2015. The Marines will be the first customer to declare IOC with the aircraft, and they were aggressive in their approach because their aging AV-8Bs are difficult and expensive to maintain. The last Harrier is slated to retire in 2030. "The F-35 is our country's best hedge against the ever-evolving and unknown threats posted by our adversaries," says Marine Lt. Gen. Robert Schmidle.

The 2B software will include basic close-air-support and interdiction activities as well as initial air-to-air and data-linking capabilities. Weapons included will be the AIM-120C7, Joint Direct Attack Munition and GBU-12 laser-guided, 500-lb. bomb. The 2B package has been released to the test force.

Italy and the United Kingdom also are planning to purchase the F-35B

The Navy, which has pursued a risk mitigation strategy of buying Boeing F/A-18 E/Fs and EA-18Gs while waiting for the F-35, is taking a more conservative approach toward welcoming the aircraft carrier-capable F-35C into service. The Navy plans to declare IOC in February 2019. The Navy leadership emphasizes in its statement about the IOC plans that it will need the F-35C to "find, fix and assess threats, and, if necessary, track, target and engage them with lethal results in all contested environments." These capabilities will require, at the least, 3F software as well as training to a larger mission set for an IOC declaration.

By contrast, the Marine Corps and Air Force are taking an incremental approach, allowing for limited use of the aircraft for IOC with a growth path as more capability is delivered to the fleet, eventually culminating in a full operational capability.

Congress directed the Pentagon to declare these IOC plans last year, but allowed for a later release of the information as the Joint Program Office shored up plans for the budget and to assess progress in flight testing.

The services had shied away from declaring IOC owing to numerous past slips in the program; top brass did not want to be seen capitulating on yet another delay. But this now allows for program overseers in the Pentagon and Congress to measure progress against firm plans to introduce the variants into service.

This also allows for the services to craft plans for retiring older aircraft that will be replaced with the F-35, such as the F-16C/D, A-10 and AV-8B.

While establishing a benchmark, the IOC plans also put pressure on Lockheed Martin to make good on its software testing plans. "Our top priority is to continue to execute our plan to support these IOC dates, starting with the Marine Corps in December 2015. Lockheed Martin is committed to cost effectively delivering the F-35's unprecedented 5th-generation capabilities to the warfighter," company spokesman Michael Rein said in a statement.