Exclusive: Made in India rifles to replace INSAS

[Bhadra]

@pmaitra

Why did not say OFB was producing these on TOT when India had to pay through their nose after DRDO failed to develop their own version...

That is what is real position.

 

[anupamsurey]

OFB is a trap. OFB will resist any reform. Heck, it cant even be corporatized. The trade unions will block it. OFB is a governmental organisation. They have a civil service called Indian ordinance factory service. They are actually civil servants. MoD has no way but to stick with OFB eventhough it uses British era technique of making weapons. So now if Private companies start eating into OFB marketshare , the OFB will become one big white elephant. Our labour laws are so crazy that eventhough they have no contracts the govt cant close down state owned enterprises. There are many PSUs which are sitting idle for many decades yet their employees have all privilages.

OFB's are a;ready going through reforms and modernisation, there is a special thread in DFI for it.

 

[Bhadra]

OFB's are a;ready going through reforms and modernisation, there is a special thread in DFI for it.

Zaldi Karo ... there are umpteen numbers of CAG reports as to how the sanctioned money for upgradation and capacity addition is not being spent..

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra

Why did not say OFB was producing these on TOT when India had to pay through their nose after DRDO failed to develop their own version...

That is what is real position.

Carl-Gustav Mark III was produced after receiving ToT. My point was to counter the allegation that OFB was using British era technique/technology (don't see much difference in the two words, except semantics).

India had to pay through their nose, whether for Carl-Gustav or T-90 ToT, and we never got complete ToT.

It would be better if we could use our existing universities and fund research. That is how it happens in the US and other developed countries. A lot of research happens in the Universities. I personally met one professor from Essex University who was leading a team that was working on part of the Scalp-EG guidance algorithm. He couldn't afford his research with full time employees.

Full time employees involved in research will be exorbitantly expensive. Full time employees who have such skills will most likely leave India and go abroad for more money. Only those few who are really committed to the nation will remain in India under meagre salaries and work for India. As a bonus, they will get repeatedly abused.

 

[anupamsurey]

Zaldi Karo ... there are umpteen numbers of CAG reports as to how the sanctioned money for upgradation and capacity addition is not being spent..

I think noone was interested to look at OFB, and its work earlier (the files migh not have been glanced at all), but with a head of Govt. with Bania mentality, and a technocrat for MOD, they sure are pulling some threads and oiling the machinery

 

[anupamsurey]

It would be better if we could use our existing universities and fund research.

we need specialised university and Institutes for defence research, do we have anything like it in India, nope.
When PM talked about special institutes for railway he should also stress fro special universities for defence.

 

[Zebra]

Carl-Gustav Mark III was produced after receiving ToT.

India had to pay through their nose, whether for Carl-Gustav or T-90 ToT, and we never got complete ToT.

It would be better if we could use our existing universities and fund research. That is how it happens in the US and other developed countries. A lot of research happens in the Universities. I personally met one professor from Essex University who was leading a team that was working on part of the Scalp-EG guidance algorithm. He couldn't afford his research with full time employees.

Full time employees involved in research will be exorbitantly expensive. Full time employees who have such skills will most likely leave India and go abroad for more money. Only those few who are really committed to the nation will remain in India under meagre salaries and work for India. As a bonus, they will get repeatedly abused.

Time for upgrade...!
What say...?

http://saab.com/land/weapon-systems/support-weapons/carl-gustaf-m4/
Carl-Gustaf M4

M4 Weight: <7kg Length: <1000mm
The Carl-Gustaf M4 is compatible with all existing and future Carl-Gustaf ammunition from its wide range of anti-armour, anti-structure, anti-personnel and support rounds.

 

[pmaitra]

we need specialised university and Institutes for defence research, do we have anything like it in India, nope.
When PM talked about special institutes for railway he should also stress fro special universities for defence.

Various universities all across India contributed towards the Mars Orbiter Mission.

Jadavpur University produced a weapon in the late 60s that could be used to destroy the tank tracks, and were used during the 1971-72 War against Pakistani Tanks. It was nicknamed "chaincutter."

I don't know how much involved Indian universities are. Our IITs, ISM, IISC, ISIs, etc., are not bad. We need to leverage them.

I do not have a lot of information on how much our universities are being leveraged. Perhaps someone can shed more light.

 

[Bhadra]

@pmaitra

What ever has been achieved is fine..kudos for it but that was 1992

Why not improve metallurgy and make it lighter .. what stops that ??
Why not increase the range of HEAT round..
Why not make HEAT round tandem warhead ? If RPG could do it what stops DRDO / OFB to do it..

Paile ja rahe ho..

 

[Bhadra]

I think noone was interested to look at OFB, and its work earlier (the files migh not have been glanced at all), but with a head of Govt. with Bania mentality, and a technocrat for MOD, they sure are pulling some threads and oiling the machinery

Hai Na.. there is DIAT - DODO Deemed university ....that peoduces top scietists in India ...

 

[Bhadra]

Let us come back to the topic..
What will happen to LMG and Carbines and pistols ?

 

[Srinivas_K]

...............................................................

 

[shekhar]

I dont think so. I view this is as a further block of INSAS getting production till MCIWS is ready.

So till when mciws will be ready

 

[SafedSagar]

It is looking small here.....

 

[Srinivas_K]

........................................................................

 

[Hari Sud]

Good to hear, the selection of Excalibur rifle news by the Indian Army. It was not highly unexpected after sexy looking foreign rifles failed tests in India.

Booooo..... to Phoren Maal.

The arms import industry in India are turning in their sleep at this piece of news.

The nay sayers in this forum and other forums should be ashamed at the negative campaign they had launched against INSAS rifle. But they were rendered speechless after Gen. V K Singh, had all but nice things to say about the existing INSAS rifle. His points, right from the former COAS mouth was that it is defensive weapon built to specs. of nineties and has a flat trajectory with high velocity bullet which goes thru the person hit and shoots upto 450 yards. The terrorists, but not our enemy armies, are equipped with a weapon which is lousy in range, highly inaccurate but fully automatic AK47 rifles. The terrorists does not care whom he hits in an auto mode as long he hits somebody. The armies accurately hit the enemy soldier in their gun sight, and that is what it separates a terrorists from a soldier.

Now a campaign is about to begin, probably starting from this forum and other forums, by fully paged agents of the arms merchant and only 20-23 years of age, to foul mouth Excalibur. They have not seen the business end of this rifle and for that reason any rifle but are rifle experts. They will begin with by saying all the bad things about quality of the make, OFB, MOD and everybody else who was in this decision making process. None of these less intelligent people would have anything to say about the quality, make and metallurgy of the four foreign rifles tested by the army and which all failed. For a change boys, get on their case and start criticizing them for poor quality and wasting India's time of four years in testing these miserable rifles. Nay, boys you won't do that as tend to loose your income.

Shame on you, all the nay sayers.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

@Bhadra here is army chief accepting that mciws requirement were unrealistic .... Same can happen with frcv

 

[salute]

whats so special about this excalibur rifle its just based on insas,
its just upgraded version of insas,
if insas was worst then its upgraded version is bad,
from worse to bad weapon.

 

[Shadow]

Can someone clarify,whether the rifle the soldier is holding in this pic,is excalibur or not?

 

[ezsasa]

It's not that INSAS is bad,as we know It is built as per GSQR in the 90's. As per the doctrine of the 90's. If Excalibur is being chosen it only indicates that doctrine has not changed much, the defensive doctrine.

My only hope is that Excalibur-2 comes with adjustable buttstock and picatany rail on 4 sides, if rails come now accessories can come later.

I have no idea what Excalibur brings to the table that INSAS doesn't, Other than being 4mm shorter and full auto. appreciated if anyone can share the details.