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Samej Jangir

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If it is abt paying off US there are other things we can ask for, not those things which will kill ready indigenous product. Just today there comes news of Israeli ROCKs a competitor to Rudram. Israeli HPR gets ordered just before election announcement when fully Indian HPRs are ready. Same story repeats everytime
Which HPR was ordered from Israel? Can you give source? AFAIK, L&T got the orders which is reasonable
 

Zoid Raptor

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Crystal Maze is a Cruise missile and today's missile was a MRBM
What is the source that it was Israeli missile? Moreover, it was a ballistic missile, not cruise of standoff missile. It is Indian missile as no other foreign country will give an air launched ballistic missile to India
I quoted the tweet which has an ANI story linked to it which clearly specifies the missile tested is an Israeli Crystal Maze-2

It seems y'all are confused with the other MRBM test which seems to be an SLBM
 

Zoid Raptor

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Truthsoldier

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List the items we can import from the US which don't contradict my post you've quoted & also satisfies your criteria then.

Crystal Maze isn't a competitor to Rudram . The latter are ARM whereas the former are ALBMs. Our ALBM are still under development as are our advanced Rudram variants too. .

The HPR story is an altogether different story. As far as I know those indigenous HPRs were not developed indigenously when the SQRs were generated. By the time of tendering they couldn't cost it properly & ended up on the higher side. Anyone with more detailed information who've been tracking this story can correct me & add to what I've posted.
Mid air refuellers,P8I, more Naval helicopters,MTA, HALE are some of the possible things. If it is only abt payoffs then even non military things can be purchased from them
 

Aditya Ballal

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DRDO has many divisions- some for material science, some for electronics, some for astronomy, some for chemistry, some for biology etc. DRDO is a vast set of organisation employing 1lakh people. It is more logical, faster & cost effective to use DRDO to develop advanced materials. Industries are just workshops to make things as per DRDO's instructions.
In this case industry already has the know how and technology to make a plate carrier, the innovation here is in the armour plate, not the carrier. DRDO transferring tech for industry to produce is done when industry has no technological base in that particular sector.
 

Samej Jangir

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In this case industry already has the know how and technology to make a plate carrier, the innovation here is in the armour plate, not the carrier. DRDO transferring tech for industry to produce is done when industry has no technological base in that particular sector.
The R&D for developing an armours is not a piece of cake. The industry is capable of doing it at the speed DRDO can as DRDO has vast amount of data from decades of R&D, has huge laboratory network which industry can't match. Moreover, the scientists employed in DRDO get fixed salary. So, it is not harmful to make use of their expertise to get the plates.
 

Chinmoy

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IAF(because of increased operational thrust needs of LCA Tejas) desired 80-90 kn which was more than original designed goal of 75/78Kn.
Could you please point me to the news where it has been said that its IAF who wanted 80 to 90 kN and not what ADA wanted to power Tejas with?
 

Chinmoy

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Saffaran asked more money , so that deal didn't finalize....was they able to generate more than 81kn,what was the planning, just to check the flutter issue ,or also to increase the thrust
GTRE actually did corroborated with Safran in Kaveri project even before the technical assistance part in MMRCA came up.
We did used Safran made DSB in the initial Kaveri prototype.
 

Aditya Ballal

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The R&D for developing an armours is not a piece of cake. The industry is capable of doing it at the speed DRDO can as DRDO has vast amount of data from decades of R&D, has huge laboratory network which industry can't match. Moreover, the scientists employed in DRDO get fixed salary. So, it is not harmful to make use of their expertise to get the plates.
Dude, read what I’ve said, and then reply. I’m talking about the plate carrier and not the plate.
 

NoobWannaLearn

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Dude, read what I’ve said, and then reply. I’m talking about the plate carrier and not the plate.
In the end drdo will transfer the tachnology to some private group to produce the plates it's like a packaged deal and same as drdo working on Loitering munitions waste of time but Better to have that department work on something rather than just sitting in there offices
 

AnantS

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Could you please point me to the news where it has been said that its IAF who wanted 80 to 90 kN and not what ADA wanted to power Tejas with?
Yes as the weight of LCA Tejas increased both realized the existing Kaveri won't be feasible for operational Tejas. They had to target 80kn+ figures to be meaningful for IAF. I'll post links more I need to dig archive on internet and Google seems to have dropped custom year search filter. Meanwhile from this board itself:
 

Chinmoy

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Yes as the weight of LCA Tejas increased both realized the existing Kaveri won't be feasible for operational Tejas. They had to target 80kn+ figures to be meaningful for IAF. I'll post links more I need to dig archive on internet and Google seems to have dropped custom year search filter. Meanwhile from this board itself:
??

I am asking about some link where GTRE was planning for a 78kNish engine and its IAF, who asked for 90 kN.

You are citing what we have discussed here.

As for my part, http://www.tejas.gov.in/history/milestones.html this link was treasure trove. Don't know why its not working. There were other news item too from 2000s, which sadly has been archived and not accessible as of now.
 

AnantS

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??

I am asking about some link where GTRE was planning for a 78kNish engine and its IAF, who asked for 90 kN.

You are citing what we have discussed here.

As for my part, http://www.tejas.gov.in/history/milestones.html this link was treasure trove. Don't know why its not working. There were other news item too from 2000s, which sadly has been archived and not accessible as of now.
78 kn was figure you posted in the link where ADE director claimed that 78kn was the design intent. What I posted was a link which alluded that 73-75 kn stable thrust was already achieved by Kaveri wayback in 2011 itself. I also posted 80kn was the design intent of Kaveri stated on GTRE products page of DRDO site and if you bother to dig articles clips dating early 2000 you will get the same figure of 80 to 82kn as design intent. It's you who stated that 90kn was original design intent. I corrected that it was IAF and prolly ADA wishing more because 80kn would insufficient for LCA which had gained weight. Not sure what you are trying to prove here.
 

Azaad

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Mid air refuellers,P8I, more Naval helicopters,MTA, HALE are some of the possible things. If it is only abt payoffs then even non military things can be purchased from them
Mid Air refuellers & MTA are available outside of the US with quality standards matching so that's ruled out while we've already procured or are procuring the rest.

The objective behind sourcing from the US is two fold - get cutting edge stuff from them unavailable worldwide which they're aware of & which in turn they'd expect payoffs for as well as the actual payoffs where the latter doesn't create critical dependencies .

As far as non military itens go , the US is still our largest trade partner & we're importing oil from them though it isn't economically feasible given the transportation costs involved.
 

Chinmoy

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78 kn was figure you posted in the link where ADE director claimed that 78kn was the design intent. What I posted was a link which alluded that 73-75 kn stable thrust was already achieved by Kaveri wayback in 2011 itself. I also posted 80kn was the design intent of Kaveri stated on GTRE products page of DRDO site and if you bother to dig articles clips dating early 2000 you will get the same figure of 80 to 82kn as design intent. It's you who stated that 90kn was original design intent. I corrected that it was IAF and prolly ADA wishing more because 80kn would insufficient for LCA which had gained weight. Not sure what you are trying to prove here.
You are mixing up too many aspects here. Lets get things done in a chronological order.

In 1983 DRDO obtained permission to work on Tejas program.

In 1985 ASQR for the same has been submitted by IAF.

Based on the ASQR requirement, in 1986 Kaveri program was initiated. During this time, GTRE was confident that based on the experience gained on GTX-37, they could build a engine to power Tejas and the requirement was put at 90kN max thrust to achieve the ASQR requirement. F-404, producing 78kN was chosen to power the initial prototypes. Along with engine, two more projects were initialized. They were MMR and FBW system.

By the time Tejas flew in 2001, it was found that the current F-404 engine producing 78kN was way too underpowered. In 2003, GE came up with IN20 version with uprated thrust of 84kN. In 2008 Kaveri was de-linked from Tejas program.

By 2010/2011, when IOC was in progress, IAF showed concern with the 84kN thrust and began to pitch for the originally proposed 90kN thrust or even more with the current design. I am sure you might be aware of the war in between IAF and ADA regarding the air-intake, which has been reported as the reason for Tejas being underpowered. Thus came Mk2 with 90 to 110kN thrust engine.

So basically its not the IAF who asked for 90kN engine. It was what has been proposed from beginning in design concept. Coming to GTRE webpage. You would not see the GTX-37 over there which was infact been built by GTRE. They do keep the updated data only over there. So the current 80kN is the updated thrust which has been basically achieved.
 

mokoman

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Lo ho gaya khatam
Forget tata and Mahindra whap
Faltu main pese laga ke rnd karke time aur resources spend Kia aur 200 main se 40 Stryker ayenge
Just wait for next 160 to be screwdrivered Stryker
A hopeless state
they need to buy 30/40 stryker vehicles for 150+ million so they can properly write the tender document . my recommendation is that they should use chatgpt . will save both money and time .
 

AnantS

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@Chinmoy Here is the choronological order fetched from Tejas.gov.in archive. No where it's mentioned that asqr requirement of 90 kn was mentioned. The archive link of 2018 date. The one of 2015 date also doesn't state 90kn asqr figure. Can you give me source of what you state wrt 90kn as the original asqr figure laid by GTRE/ADA?
History
History
1980 - 1989
1983

  • DRDO got permission to initiate a programme to design and develop a Light Combat Aircraft.
1984
  • Government of India set up Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) as the nodal agency developing the LCA and managing the programme.
1985
  • IAF generated Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for LCA in October 1985.
1986
  • Government allocated Rs. 575 Crores for the LCA programme.
  • Programme to develop an indigenous power plant (engine) - Kaveri was launched at GTRE.
1987
  • Project definition commenced in October 1987 with French aircraft major Dassault Aviation as consultants.
1988
  • Project definition phase completed in September 1988.
1989
  • Government review committee expressed confidence in LCA programme. It was decided that the programme will be implemented in two phases.
1990 - 1999
1990

  • Design of LCA was completed as a tail-less compound delta winged relaxed static stability aircraft.
  • Phase 1 (Technology Demonstrator) of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept.
1993
  • Full funding approved from April 1993 and development work for Phase 1 started in June.
1995
  • First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17th November.
1997
  • Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) for LCA design work started at HAL Hyderabad division and LRDE.
2000 - 2009
2001

  • 4th January - the historic first flight of the Technology Demonstrator TD-1 marking a new era in the aviation history of India. Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee named LCA – "Tejas" meaning Radiance in ancient Indian language Sanskrit.
2002
  • 6th June - TD-2 made her successful maiden flight.
2003
  • Tejas crossed the sonic barrier for the first time
  • 25th November - PV-1 made her successful maiden flight.
2005
  • 1st December - PV-2 made her successful maiden flight.
2006
  • 1st December - PV-3 flew for the first time for 27 minutes at an altitude of 2.5 km and at a speed of Mach 0.8. PV-3 was equipped with a more advanced pilot interface, refined avionics and higher control law capabilities compared with the previous versions.
2007
  • 25th April - The first Limited Series Production LCA (LSP-1) made her first flight and reached a speed of Mach 1.1 in the very first flight.
  • PV-2 and PV-3 underwent sea-level trials at INS Rajali Naval Air Station, Arakkonam to study the effects of flying at sea-level, as all earlier trials have been conducted at Bengaluru which is 3,000 feet (910 m) above sea-level. The reliability of the LCA systems under the hot and humid conditions, as well as low level flight characteristics was tested.
  • 7th September - Tejas Prototype Vehicle (PV-1) made a successful flight with two external drop tanks of 800 Ltrs capacity
  • 25th October - Tejas PV-1 fired R-73 (CCM) missile for the first time. The trials were conducted off the Goa coast at INS Hansa Naval Air Station.
  • 11th December - LITENING targeting pod was successfully tested on Tejas PV-2.
2008
  • 28th May to 4th June - LCA Tejas prototypes PV-2 & PV-3 underwent hot weather trials at Air Force Station, Nagpur.
  • 16th June - Tejas second Limited Series Production LCA (LSP-2) made its first flight.
  • 7th November - LCA Prototype Vehicle-3 made first successful night flight.
  • 13th December - PV-3 and LSP-2 completed the high altitude test at Leh, world's highest operational airfield.
2009
  • 22nd January - Tejas completed 1000 flights.
  • October - PV-3 and LSP-2 completed air-to-ground weapons delivery trials.
  • 26th November - Two seater (Trainer) version of Tejas (PV-5) made its maiden flight on 26 Nov 09.
  • 7th December - Tejas speed envelope expanded to 1350 km/h (CAS) while performing flight flutter test in a dive to near sea level. These tests were conducted at INS Hansa, Goa.
2010 - 2019
2010

  • 6th June - TD-2 made her successful maiden flight.
  • 23rd April - LCA Tejas LSP-3 made maiden flight. LSP-3 is close to the final configuration including the new air-data computers.
  • Multi Mode Radar, new communication and navigation equipment and radar warning receiver. With this the LCA programme has completed 1350 test flights logging about 800 flying hours.
  • 2nd June - First Flight of LCA Tejas LSP-4. Flight. In addition to the LSP-3 standard of preparation, the aircraft also flew with the Countermeasure Dispensing System.
  • 19 November - First Flight of LCA Tejas LSP-5.
2011
  • 10th January - Certification for the Release to Service.
2012
  • 9th March - The Tejas Light Combat Aircraft, LSP-7 accomplished its maiden flight from HAL Airport in Bengaluru
    on 9th March 2012
  • 29th April - The Naval version of the Indian Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, made its maiden flight from the HAL Airport in Bengaluru. This was a significant milestone in the history of Indian Aviation in designing a naval variant of a fighter aircraft.
2013
  • 22nd February - The LCA took part in the Iron Fist Exercise in Pokhran, Jaisalmer
  • 31st March - The Tejas Light Combat Aircraft, LSP-8 accomplished its maiden flight from HAL Airport, Bengaluru
  • 20th December - Initial Operation Clearance - 2
    Indian Defence Minister Mr. A.K. Antony handed over the "Release to Service Document" of the country’s own Light Combat Aircraft to The Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne.
2014
  • 1st October - First Flight of LCA Tejas SP 1 - The first Tejas Light Combat Aircraft from the batch of 20 ‘series production’ or full-fledged fighters flew for about 25 minutes in Bengaluru. The flight of ‘SP1’ was piloted by HAL’s Chief Test Pilot Air Cmde K.A. Muthanna(retd). The First Flight of SP1 was achieved within nine months of receiving the penultimate flight worthiness certification, called IOC-2 (initial operational clearance) in December 2013.
  • 8th November - LCA Tejas PV-6 (Prototype Vehicle 6), a final configuration two-seater trainer aircraft, successfully completed its maiden flight at the HAL Airport in Bengaluru.
  • 20th December - Maiden Ski Jump of LCA NP-1 - The first prototype of the light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas Naval version - LCA NP-1 completed its maiden flight as part of the carrier compatibility tests at the shore-based test facility in Goa.
2015
  • 17th January - IAF gets first indigenously-built Light Combat Aircraft Tejas - The LCA Tejas Series Production-1 (SP1) was handed over by Defence Minister Mr. Manohar Parrikar to Indian Air Force Chief Air Marshal Arup Raha in Bengaluru on Saturday.
  • 7th February - The Second Prototype of the Light Combat Aircraft, the NP-2, flew her maiden flight on 7th February 2015 from HAL Airport in Bengaluru. Piloted by Capt. Shivnath Dahiya (Indian Navy), the aircraft performed flawlessly in the first-flight
2016
  • 21st - 23rd January - India's indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas for the first time participated in an International Air Show in Bahrain, an event witnessed by External Affairs Minister of India Smt. Sushma Swaraj.
    The display of India's defence technology comes at a time when the government is giving a strong push to its flagship 'Make in India' programme.
  • 18th May - IAF Chief Arup Raha has his first sortie in LCA Tejas; says it’s a “good aircraft” for induction
    Indian Air Force (IAF) chief Arup Raha on18th May 2016 had his first sortie in the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), after which he called it a “good aircraft for induction”. “It is my first sortie in Tejas, it is a good aircraft for induction into IAF operations,” Raha said.
  • 1st July - Historical day for India: First squadron Inducted into the IAF
    Hindustan Aeronautics Limited handed over the first two Tejas aircrafts to Indian Air Force which will make up the 'Flying Daggers' 45, the name of the first squadron of the LCA.
  • August - Leh - High Altitude and Hot Weather Trials
    The Tejas Trainer PV-6 (KH-T-2010) underwent High Altitude and Hot Weather Trials in Leh. Along with the machine, the men responsible for the activities also gained more experience by the harsh weather conditions.
  • 8th October - LCA Tejas Makes Debut Appearance At 84th Air Force Day Celebrations
    India's Light Combat Aircraft Tejas performed at the 84th Air Force Day Celebrations amid Loud Cheers from the audience at the Hindon Air Force Base on the outskirts of New Delhi. Rising up to the expectations to the theme of this year's IAF Day "MAKE IN INDIA"
  • 8th November - The Ministry of Defence gives clearance for 83 LCA Tejas MK1A
2017
  • 26th January - LCA Tejas made its debut at the 68th Republic Day parade
    LCA Tejas made its debut at the 68th Republic Day parade. Three Tejas aircrafts participated in the fly-past
  • 11th May - LCA Tejas LSP-4 Fires Derby Missile
    Derby Missile in RADAR guided mode was fired from LCA Tejas LSP-4. The missile achieved a direct hit during the trial conducted at Kalaikunda, West Bengal
 

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