DRDO and PSU news and discussion

[Bleh]

No Swarm drones are indeed difficult to counter , first of all these swarm drones will be intelligent thy know how to react and what to do. they will be interconnected and can do Co Operative engagement , if they fly in high altitudes its difficult to shoot down with the guns. in a swarm different kinds of drones can be used , some of them may be just or creating a target for enemies but the real drones may be somewhere else . They can take on vast areas of enemy. just one swarm with 1000Drones can take out 100MBTs , if we shoot down 750 Drones but still the remaining 250 can destroy MBTs.

they can overwhelm airdefence systems with sheer numbers each drone can mimic different things , when we are in busy in countering swarms just one missile is enough to destroy the Air Defense systems , and we can do whatever we want just need to code the AI for appropriate Missions . when mass producing they wil be pretty much cheep also .

I'm not saying they'll be a breeze... Ofcourse intelligent enemy can even train rats to be granade carriers.

Still a combo of fragmentation airburst granades & shotgun buckshots can be much MUCH cheaper counter to blunt them to significant degree, especially when they'll have to close in for hit. 1000 swarm-drones vs 100 shotguns & training regimen have heavily skewed cost ratio.
Armenia was hardly a proper case-study.

 

[Akula]

Meh, copter-drones are too slow & sluggish. All it'll take is some skeetshooting training & shotguns.

Actually maybe we're indeed predicting the future incorrectly & carbines/kalashnikovs will simply be replaced by 20gauge semi-auto shotguns in Army.
View attachment 69117

Swarms drones aren't that difficult to counter if lads get the right tools (drone-skeet is an official Olympic sport now).

I think we played Call of duty Black ops 2 too much.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

No Swarm drones are indeed difficult to counter , first of all these swarm drones will be intelligent thy know how to react and what to do. they will be interconnected and can do Co Operative engagement , if they fly in high altitudes its difficult to shoot down with the guns. in a swarm different kinds of drones can be used , some of them may be just or creating a target for enemies but the real drones may be somewhere else . They can take on vast areas of enemy. just one swarm with 1000Drones can take out 100MBTs , if we shoot down 750 Drones but still the remaining 250 can destroy MBTs.

they can overwhelm airdefence systems with sheer numbers each drone can mimic different things , when we are in busy in countering swarms just one missile is enough to destroy the Air Defense systems , and we can do whatever we want just need to code the AI for appropriate Missions . when mass producing they wil be pretty much cheep also .

China once tested a swarm of 2000 drones

We have thousands of AA guns. With various types of fuses, which can target upto 12 km.. And the shells are cheap too, much cheaper than these drones.. But, we need to devise strategies to counter drone warfare..

 

[Bleh]

I think we played Call of duty Black ops 2 too much.

Never played it... Explain your joke.

 

[ezsasa]

Meh, copter-drones are too slow & sluggish. All it'll take is some skeetshooting training & shotguns.

Actually maybe we're indeed predicting the future incorrectly & carbines/kalashnikovs will simply be replaced by 20gauge semi-auto shotguns in Army.
View attachment 69117

Swarms drones aren't that difficult to counter if lads get the right tools (drone-skeet is an official Olympic sport now).

any reason for mentioning 20 gauge shell specifically? bigger the gauge of the shell, smaller the shell.

but anyways regular shotgun shells, loose their potency after 100 yards.

 

[mokoman]

Swarm drone......bdw iafs requirement is of many morr UAVs....
Bdw I can count 12 UAVs......

, how would you use this in combat ?

Too costly. Shotgun is cheaper.

What about dispersal , and effective range ?

SMASH-2000 is 150m and can be used at night time.

IMHO something unmanned like @Bhumihar posted is best option.

 

[Bleh]

any reason for mentioning 20 gauge shell specifically? bigger the gauge of the shell, smaller the shell.

but anyways regular shotgun shells, loose their potency after 100 yards.

No, no just heard of 20 gauge skeet-shooting gun. Ignore it.

What about dispersal , and effective range ?

SMASH-2000 is 150m and can be used at night time.

Similar. Maybe specialised powerful buck-shot with large pellets can be created.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Very hard to shoot swarm of small & moving targets in air with heavy-calibre RCWS, in time. You need area weapons like shot-gun... Or remote exploding airburst granades if you're feeling fancy.

Thats how anti aircraft guns work, airburst rounds are fired that damage and ultimately destroy the aircraft.

 

[Cruise missile]

AI-enabled night vision device is being used by the Indian Army.

The device is an AI-based personalized night vision device, which is mounted on the helmet of a soldier, and warns the soldier related to any suspicious activity. Along with the helmet, a wristband-like device would vibrate after picking up signs of movement in the soldier’s line of sight.

AI-enabled night vision device is being used by the Indian Army

To avoid challenging conditions for the soldiers, the Army Design Bureau developed a device which would warn soldiers of unusual activity across regions with restricted line of sight.

indiaai.gov.in

 

[FalconSlayers]

, how would you use this in combat ?



What about dispersal , and effective range ?

SMASH-2000 is 150m and can be used at night time.

IMHO something unmanned like @Bhumihar posted is best option.

XM25 CDTE type weapon will be best if able to equip with SMASH-2000. Americans failed in making it but South Koreans successfully made and inducted 20mm airburst grenade launcher Daewoo K11 installed with an assault rifle.


XM25



The S&T Daewoo K11

Such South Korean systems should’ve been purchased for such roles as the S. Koreans and Americans made it for use against Infantry or CICT ops in Afghanistan but who knew such systems can be used against Swarm Drones effectively.



Can be very effective against Swarm Drones If it can be used with SMASH-2000.
Else without SMASH-2000 also it can be used effectively.

 

[porky_kicker]

I'm not saying they'll be a breeze... Ofcourse intelligent enemy can even train rats to be granade carriers.

Still a combo of fragmentation airburst granades & shotgun buckshots can be much MUCH cheaper counter to blunt them to significant degree, especially when they'll have to close in for hit. 1000 swarm-drones vs 100 shotguns & training regimen have heavily skewed cost ratio.
Armenia was hardly a proper case-study.

There is a natural order of progression to things

First one has to prepare to detect a target
Then isolate and track a target
Then bear his weapon on to the target
Wait for the target to get in the kill zone of his weapon
Then ensure hit on the target

Imo Humans with airburst grenade launchers & shotgun buckshots will fail miserably.

Aerial targets are always hard to him .

These drones even though they are commercial drones by the look of things , in a swarming configuration will overwhelm a human or a no of humans , things will happen so fast that human operator reflex will fall short.

Things are easy to imagine but a soldier on a look out for drones sweeping out of the sky will be on tender hooks psychologically.

 

[Bleh]

Thats how anti aircraft guns work, airburst rounds are fired that damage and ultimately destroy the aircraft.

XM25 CDTE type weapon will be best if able to equip with SMASH-2000. Americans failed in making it but South Koreans successfully made and inducted 20mm airburst grenade launcher Daewoo K11 installed with an assault rifle.


XM25



The S&T Daewoo K11

Such South Korean systems should’ve been purchased for such roles as the S. Koreans and Americans made it for use against Infantry or CICT ops in Afghanistan but who knew such systems can be used against Swarm Drones effectively.



Can be very effective against Swarm Drones If it can be used with SMASH-2000.
Else without SMASH-2000 also it can be used effectively.

Guys, this was my point.

We may not need to use massive resources like AAA & supercostly super-gun, for some bombs with plastic wings or rotors.
Not when we can easily use much cheaper buckshots. Or even something like a 12gauge frag-slug that airbursts at a particular range.

There is a natural order of progression to things

First one has to prepare to detect a target
Then isolate and track a target
Then bear his weapon on to the target
Wait for the target to get in the kill zone of his weapon
Then ensure hit on the target

Imo Humans with airburst grenade launchers & shotgun buckshots will fail miserably.

Aerial targets are always hard to him .

These drones even though they are commercial drones by the look of things , in a swarming configuration will overwhelm a human or a no of humans , things will happen so fast that human operator reflex will fall short.

Things are easy to imagine but a soldier on a look out for drones sweeping out of the sky will be on tender hooks psychologically.

That is possible too. Loitering drone swarms may not be the same thing as shooting down spy drones at LOC... Troops can get a lot of practice though, with plastic skeets/gliders. Only then we'll know how effective a group of 100 shooters spraying buckshots can be against a drone swarm.

Small scale area (or atleast directional) jamming equipment ofcourse is the best choice.

 

[porky_kicker]

Guys, this was my point. We may not need to use massive resources like AAA & supercostly super-gun, for some bombs with plastic wings or rotors.
Not when we can easily use much cheaper buckshots... Or even something like a 12gauge frag-slug that airbursts at a particular range.

Trying to use a gun scope which has a narrow FoV to acquire and aim , that too a fast moving drone is not something easy to do.

AAA imo is the best answer , calibre choice will depend on the drone types. Even they will struggle without EO / radar input.

There are WW2 videos on AAA operations , see them to understand the complexity.

 

[porky_kicker]

Instead of KE /HE projectiles best use EM guns which can fire directional EM pulses to distrupt the electronics etc.

Aim need not be great , simply point in the general direction and shoot .

Reportedly india bought few of these

 

[Bleh]

Trying to use a gun scope which has a narrow FoV to acquire and aim , that too a fast moving drone is not something easy to do.

AAA imo is the best answer , calibre choice will depend on the drone types. Even they will struggle with EO / radar input.

There are WW2 videos on AAA operations , see them to understand the complexity.

No no, you can't use a skope for skeet-shooting like marksmanship. You need to give lead & aim for an area in the sky.
See some skeet-shooting of drones, it's an actual sport now. That's where I got the idea. They're NOT slow, and that too go in haphazard directions, not towards the shooter.

Lastly I'm just musing over a possibility, that I'm still finding plausible. You could be correct instead.

But I do believe these tiny, not-hot things will be very hard to trace & shoot by AAA or RCWS, but whittled down by random infantrymen spread over the area.

 

[mokoman]

Only swarm attack i heard off were on Russian base in syria.They tried to take out a s400 using 13 cheap fixed wing drones.

Khmeimim Air Base - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Cant imagine how you will take about 100+ drones spread out at night using AAA,shotguns or with a fancy rifle.

 

[porky_kicker]

, how would you use this in combat ?



What about dispersal , and effective range ?

SMASH-2000 is 150m and can be used at night time.

IMHO something unmanned like @Bhumihar posted is best option.

This is simply tech demonstration / validation for AI based swarm using commercial drones.

Once proven they will need to implement it in real time applications , like in US MALDS , Gremlins etc

 

[FalconSlayers]

Guys, this was my point.

We may not need to use massive resources like AAA & supercostly super-gun, for some bombs with plastic wings or rotors.
Not when we can easily use much cheaper buckshots. Or even something like a 12gauge frag-slug that airbursts at a particular range.
That is possible too. Loitering drone swarms may not be the same thing as shooting down spy drones at LOC... Troops can get a lot of practice though, with plastic skeets/gliders. Only then we'll know how effective a group of 100 shooters spraying buckshots can be against a drone swarm.

Small scale area (or atleast directional) jamming equipment ofcourse is the best choice.

Or Directed Energy weapons, or how does DRDO’s anti drone weapon works which is now an essential part of PM’s protocol?

 

[Bleh]

Cant imagine how you will take about 100+ drones spread out at night using AAA,shotguns or with a fancy rifle.

Ideally case ofcourse is powerful area-jamming... then installed directional janmming turret... individual jammers mounted on hundreds of guns like UBGLs.

But this sight flying 200m over you to its target, can be significantly whittled down by 20 of you with shotguns & a few flares.

Anybody knows any skeet-shooter who can give an opinion?

 

[Trololo]

Pay the required $$$ to IAS and you can sell 100 paper planes to IAF as swarm drones.