DRDO and PSU news and discussion

Tridev123

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
253
Likes
584
Country flag
Well
So you are claiming that ADA didn't worked on tejas? And all the work was done and finished with just consultancy? Do have any source for that?
When india was building tejas we were stuck by sanctions that forced india to develop fly by wire system and many other things. Many countries are developing new fighter's aircrafts in joint ventures and in collaboration even the F-35 program have multiple partner's.
Taking consultancy doesn't bite you can either go with that or with Chinese way of copying the equipments.
If Tejas design was not indigenous then how ADA have access to whole Technical development of Tejas.
Heck even in our nuclear program in different stages we have taken assistance from different countries but that doesn't mean our development are not indigenous.

Consultancy is a cheap way to counter spending on R&D under consultancy you gain technical know how. We should utilize our defence relationship with other countries to get technical assistance.


When It takes more than 4 years for government to negotiate with government company aka HAL then what makes you think that government can force other companies to share their expertise to HAL for free? Don't you know that a company is also a separate identity from owner?
HAL undertook these programs on it's own because they were the biggest aircraft manufacturer in india building aircrafts from 60s so they claimed that they have enough experience to build aircrafts like this.
IAF rejected HAL product HTT-40 because it was inefficient and government stopped it's funding then HAL used company fund to complete this project.
And btw HAL paid for consultancy from company funds so government was already not taken in confidence and it's not a big deal HAL didn't paid some multi billion $
Well, I have nothing to say if you want to go on rhetoric. Nobody said ADA did zero work while Dassault did 100% work. The British, French, Americans had 75 years of experience of working on design and manufacturing aircraft. India is still a small power in aerospace compared to global aerospace giants.

Anyhow if your belief gives you happiness so be it. I hate to point out the obvious but we are highly dependent on the West and Russia even for basic electronic components like doides, triode, semiconductors etc. There are many thousands of components that go into the LCA. Go through the entire list of systems and subsystems if you have access to the information and determine how much is imported. Why do you want to make us naked. The plight of countries like Pakistan our neighbour is worse. Stop supply from the West and China and most High tech weapons systems would be unusable. India and Pakistan do not even make aerospace grade aluminium alloys used for building aircraft. Most of the information regarding our vulnerabilities is hidden and rightly so.

I do not wish to burst your happiness bubble.
So no arguments.

It would have been better if you had put out a list of all the components of the Tejas and proved that a majority of them in volume and value are produced in India.
We will reach self sufficiency but it will take time.
 

Assassin 2.0

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2019
Messages
5,318
Likes
26,598
Country flag
Anyhow if your belief gives you happiness so be it. I hate to point out the obvious but we are highly dependent on the West and Russia even for basic electronic components like doides, triode, semiconductors etc. There are many thousands of components that go into the LCA. Go through the entire list of systems and subsystems if you have access to the information and determine how much is imported. Why do you want to make us naked. The plight of countries like Pakistan our neighbour is worse. Stop supply from the West and China and most High tech weapons systems would be unusable. India and Pakistan do not even make aerospace grade aluminium alloys used for building aircraft. Most of the informati
World is increasingly becoming globalized.
Even American companies source parts from different nations.
For now tejas haven't reached large scale manufacturing and infrastructure was not even their to build a localised jet but with the development of tejas we have started to build new infrastructure for further developments. Tejas is aggressively becoming more and more indigenous and with private sector coming in.
do not wish to burst your happiness bubble.
So no arguments.

It would have been better if you had put out a list of all the components of the Tejas and proved that a majority of them in volume and value are produced in India.
We will reach self sufficiency but it will take time
Indigenous content of Tejas 59.7% by value & 75.5% by numbers

reduce dependence on foreign companies, out of the 134 imported LRUs, the indigenisation of 42 units is under progress.
Further efforts are being made by way of indigenisation with the objective to reduce the import content progressively, he said

This report is from 2k18
Till the time we start building 83Mk1A we would be able to indigenous it by 75%+


Tejas haven't reached the scale of mass manufacturing and it's very funny to think that with developing aircraft industry india can manufacture everything from day one but slowly and steadily we are moving in the right direction with time we have also indigenous Su-30 aircraft.

For example - Godrej Aerospace announced that company manufactured actuators for LCA-Tejas were successfully tested across all altitudes and speeds of operations on 28th May 2020 and now they have been cleared for production by the ADA and HAL. Actuators were originally designed and manufactured by ADA/DRDO earlier but as production is ramped up, it was decided that Private defence sector companies like Godrej Aerospace will take over the manufacturing of them.

INDIGENOUS DEVELOPMENT OF LINE REPLACEABLE UNITS (LRU’s)
FOR LCA-TEJAS (This one is even more older looks like 2015-16 but note that they were seeking to indigenous all of these equipments)
ADA is the Nodal agency involved in the design and development of Tejas Aircraft along
with HAL as a principal partner and in coordination with nearly 100 work centres spread
across the country. The Tejas development program is in advanced stage, completed
Initial Operation Clearance (IOC) requirements and marching towards final operation
clearance (FOC). Tejas has completed over 2000 flights so far and continuing system
performance and evaluation towards reaching Final Operational Clearance (FOC). There
are 358 LRU's (Components) in the Tejas aircraft, out of which 53% of total LRU's are
indigenously developed with in India. In view to reduce the remaining 47% of the import
LRU's, ADA has initiated the Indigenous development programme for indigenization of the
import LRU's.
The List of Components (LRU's) which belong to different systems of Aircraft, ADA is
looking to indigenous is given in the table below.
Sl. No. System Equipment / LRU
1 Avionics Enhanced – Video cum Digital Recorder (E-VDR)
2 Avionics E-VDR Remote Cassette Unit Holder (RCUH)
3 Avionics E-VDR Removable Mass Memory Device
4 Avionics Global Positioning System (GPS)- Antenna
5 Avionics Gyro Reference Unit [GRU]
6 Avionics HMDS (Head Mounted Display System) -
Guillotine Assembly
7 Avionics HMDS-Line of sight computer Unit
8 Avionics HMDS-Magnetic Transmitter Coil Unit [MTCU]
9 Avionics HMDS-Seat Position Sensor Assembly
10 Avionics HMDS-System Control Panel
11 Avionics Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) - Antenna
12 Avionics Marker Antenna
13 Avionics MMR (Multi Mode Radar) - Ethernet switch
14 Avionics Multi Function Display Unit [MFD]
15 Avionics Radio Altimeter (RAM)-Antenna
16 Avionics RWR (Radar Warning Receiver) - Antenna
17 Avionics RWR - Power Divider
18 Avionics RWR - Switch Filter Assembly (RF Units)
19 Avionics Tactical Navigation (TACAN) - Antenna
20 Avionics Very/ Ultra High Frequency (V/UHF)
Blade Antenna
21 Avionics Very/ Ultra High Frequency (V/UHF)
Radio ACR 500LA

22 Avionics VHF Omni Range – Instrument Landing System
(VOR – ILS) Blade Antennas
23 Avionics VOR - ILS Diplexer
24 Environmental Control Bypass Valve PHE (Primary Heat Exchanger)
25 Environmental Control Cabin Pressure Control Valve
26 Environmental Control Cabin Pressure Safety Valve
27 Environmental Control Cabin Shut-Off Valve
28 Environmental Control ECS-Shut-Off Valve
29 Environmental Control Ejector Shut Off Valve (ESOV)
30 Environmental Control Filter Cabin Pressure Control
31 Environmental Control Flow Control Valve - Avionics cooling
32 Environmental Control Inward Relief Valve
33 Environmental Control Pressure Reducer-Radar and Cabin Seal
Pressurization
34 Environmental Control Pressure Sensor Avionics Inlet
35 Environmental Control Pressure Sensor P26 (Condenser)
36 Environmental Control Pressure Sensor- P79(Avionics Flow Control)
37 Environmental Control Pressure Sensor P24 - Bleed Air Inlet
38 Environmental Control Pressure Switch (Bleed Air Inlet)
39 Environmental Control Pressure Switch-High
40 Environmental Control Pressure Switch-Low
41 Environmental Control Pressure Transducer-Cabin
42 Environmental Control PRV-SOV
(Pressure Reduction Valve/Shut off Valve)
43 Environmental Control PRV-SOV- Control Unit
44 Environmental Control Seal Inflation / Deflation Valve
45 Environmental Control Temperature Control Valve
46 Environmental Control Temperature Sensor (High)
47 Environmental Control Temperature Sensor (Low)
48 Environmental Control Temperature Sensor-Pneumatic
49 Environmental Control Water Separator
50 Electrical 0.35 kVA HMDG (Hydraulic Motor Driven
Generatror) – LH (Left Hand)
51 Electrical 0.35 kVA HMDG – RH (Right Hand)
52 Electrical 0.35 kVA HMDG – VRU (Voltage Regulator Unit)
53 Electrical 30 / 40 kVA IDG (Integral Drive Generator)
54 Electrical 30 / 40 kVA IDG-GCU (Generator Control Unit)
55 Electrical 5 kVA HMDG
56 Electrical 5 kVA HMDG -GCU
57 Electrical Ground Power Receptacle (GPR)
58 Electrical Light - Anti Collision
59 Electrical Light Taxi/Landing
60 Electrical Light-Wander

61 Electrical Power Supply Unit - Anti Collision Light
62 Electrical Undercarriage display unit
63 Electrical Undercarriage Selector Lever
64 ESCAPE Ejection Seat
65 Flight Control Air Data Probe [NADP]
66 Flight Control Air Data Sensor - Left Side [LADP]
67 Flight Control Air Data Sensor - Right Side [RADP]
68 Flight Control AoA (Angle of Attach) Sensor [AoA / AoSS vanes]
69 Flight Control Pilot Control Grip
70 Flight Control Leading Edge Vane Controller (LEVCON) Servo
Actuator Assembly
71 Flight Control Probe Total Temperature [TATP]
72 Flight Control Sensor Assembly, Accelerometer [ASA]
73 Flight Control Sensor Assembly Rate [RSA]
74 Health and Utility
Management System (HUMS) HUMS-Data Acquisition unit
75 Hydraulic Control cable - Park Brake Control
76 Hydraulic Control cable - Under carriage Emergency
77 Hydraulic Emergency Undercarriage Selector Valve
78 Hydraulic Flow Synchronizer
79 Hydraulic Pressure Gauge
80 Hydraulic Pressure Switches
81 Hydraulic Pressure Switch – EMDP
(Electric Motor Driven Pump)
82 Hydraulic Pressure Switch - P/B
83 Hydraulic Pressure Transducers
84 Hydraulic Progressive Pressure Control Valve
85 Hydraulic Slide & Swivel Joints
86 Landing Gear Antiskid Brake Manifold
87 Landing Gear Brake Feel Module Input Potentiometer
88 Landing Gear Free castor valve for Nose Wheel Steering
(Solenoid valve)
89 Landing Gear Nose Wheel Steering Input Potentiometer
90 Landing Gear Nose Wheel Steering Manifold
91 Landing Gear Nose Wheel Steering Position Sensor
(Feedback potentiometer)
92 Propulsion and Fuel Air / No Fuel Float Valve
93 Propulsion and Fuel Differential Pressure Switch
94 Propulsion and Fuel Electric Re-fuelling Valve
95 Propulsion and Fuel Engine third mount pin
96 Propulsion and Fuel Float Valve
97 Propulsion and Fuel Fuel Drain Valve
98 Propulsion and Fuel Fuel Filler Cap

99 Propulsion and Fuel Fuel flow straighter
100 Propulsion and Fuel Fuel flow Transmitter
101 Propulsion and Fuel Fuel Shut Off Cock
102 Propulsion and Fuel Fuel/No Air Valve
103 Propulsion and Fuel Low Pressure Fuel Shut Off Cock dia 25 mm
104 Propulsion and Fuel Motorized Fuel Transfer Valve
105 Propulsion and Fuel Pressure Reducing Valves
106 Propulsion and Fuel Surge Relief Valve - F1 & F2 tanks
107 Propulsion and Fuel Surge Relief Valve - F1A tanks
108 Propulsion and Fuel Surge Relief Valve - Wing tanks
109 Propulsion and Fuel Throttle Grip
110 Propulsion and Fuel Throttle Quadrant Assembly
111 Propulsion and Fuel Transfer Cum Refueling Valve
112 Utility Services and
Monitoring (USMS) Charge Amplifier (Pre Amplifier)
 
Last edited:

patriots

Defense lover
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
3,922
Likes
11,645
Country flag
At around 40kg, HELINA is one hell of a hefty missile. But DRDO doesn't want to leave it. So they are effectively blocking any foreign import.
Each Hellfire weighs 104 pounds (47kg)


may be some problem with helina seeker
 

ezsasa

Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
15,093
Likes
46,375
Country flag
At around 40kg, HELINA is one hell of a hefty missile. But DRDO doesn't want to leave it. So they are effectively blocking any foreign import.
Any known public info on total Helina inventory requirement by IA&IAF combined?
 

Chinmoy

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
5,373
Likes
8,547
Country flag
Any known public info on total Helina inventory requirement by IA&IAF combined?
IAF version would in all probability be without HELINA. They would use only AAM primarily and ATGM in secondary role. HELINA is primarily for IA. But no clarity in overall project scenario.
 

Chinmoy

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
5,373
Likes
8,547
Country flag
No
Helina is for ia
Dhruvstra is for iaf
Both have different seekers
Both are for same role. Before Apache deal there was hope for HELINA/ Dhruvastra. But with this mess up now, I personally don't think that IAF would pursue it any further.
But lets hope for the best.
 

Abhijeet Dey

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
1,524
Likes
1,908
Country flag
In February 2017, MBDA announced the beginning of a joint venture (JV) with the Indian conglomerate Larsen & Toubro (L&T). This JV Company will notably look to develop and supply fifth generation Anti-Tank Guided Missiles (ATGM5s), inspired by the MMP, in order to answer to a requirement of the Indian Army.


MBDA_MLP_et_MMP.jpeg

Missile Moyenne Portée (MMP)
 

vishnugupt

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
478
Likes
985
Country flag
@Abhijeet Dey
Is there any technical problem or foreign import lobbyists are trying to scuttle Helina missile? :confused1:

Have you heard about the different playing field ?? When you knew that DRDO don't have a particular technology/advantage/Feature but foreign vendors offering it so when you go to MOD and keep pressing for that particular advantage/technology/feature and insist that without this feature weapon is useless. Here is a like what CDS himself said

[/QUOTE]
Each Hellfire weighs 104 pounds (47kg)


may be some problem with helina seeker
Recently spike and MBDA PARS missiles failed in summer trails in Thar beyond 2.5km range but Army wants 4 km range so Helina seaker is much better than its contemporary.

At around 40kg, HELINA is one hell of a hefty missile. But DRDO doesn't want to leave it. So they are effectively blocking any foreign import.
DRDO has no authority over armed forces what armed forces want to import. Whenever requirements arise force go to MOD but MOD itself has no expertise so they discuss this given requirement within a panel where a DRDO guy also sits. When MOD is not satisfied with Armed force's arguments then MOD sends the proposal back.
Now day, it seems everybody is fad up with armed force unwanted GSQRs that why Modi, Rajnath, Nirmala, Vipin Rawat urging them to go for inhouse solutions
 
Last edited:

patriots

Defense lover
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
3,922
Likes
11,645
Country flag
Recently spike and MBDA PARS missiles failed in summer trails in Thar beyond 2.5km range but Army wants 4 km range so Helina speaker is much better than its contemporary.



DRDO has no authority over armed forces what armed forces want to import. Whenever requirements arise force go to MOD but MOD itself has no expertise so they discuss this given requirement within a panel where a DRDO guy also sits. When MOD is not satisfied with Armed force's arguments then MOD sends the proposal back.
Now day, it seems everybody is fad up with armed force unwanted GSQRs that why Modi, Rajnath, Nirmala, Vipin Rawat urging them to go for inhouse solutions
What ever the case ...our armed/attack helicopters should be armed with an atgm as soon as possible
As I have said before 22 Apache and 18 mi35 will not make any difference
But. 70+ Rudras and lch with atgm will do.......
 

BangaliBabu

Regular Member
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
706
Likes
1,957
Country flag

missile
Agni-1 ballistic missile RV detonation

So, what's scary about this damp and grainy GIF image?
Nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles have different detonation mechanisms depending on the type of target they are fired at. Earth penetrating nuclear warheads are used against deep-buried hardened targets. Against 'exposed soft targets', the warhead is rigged to detonate at a certain altitude to maximize the radius of destruction. These 'exposed soft targets' are usually cities. The image is of an airburst test of Agni-1 RV. Airburst fusing has its own set of challenges. An RV flies at several times the speed of sound, fusing has to be precise or the RV would miss the detonation window. Against a city, it would hardly matter but it would have a serious impact on kill probability if the target is hardened, for example. a missile silo.
Anyway, airburst nuke: One moment you are like "Aw look... a shooting star" and next moment you are either vaporized or burnt to crisp or burnt and blind depending on how far you were from the detonation.
It's a good thing that the Indian government decided to stop displaying nuclear missiles in the Republic Day parades. For one, they are a weapon designed to kill millions, nothing to be proud of, and second, India had been negotiating a nuclear deal with Japan when the decision to not showoff nuclear weapons was taken....."hide the nukes."



BMD cometh?


missile, BMD, interceptor
AAD intercepts a target missile

Here is an interesting video of an AAD missile engaging a Prithvi TGT missile (Dhanush modified to mimic a number of trajectories). So far the interceptor missile has been reliable. It would make quick work of most short to medium-range missiles. As of medium to long-range targets, the Kinetic Kill Vehicle of the PDV has matured significantly. The PDV interceptor will be put through more rigorous tests once the floating test range is commissioned. It has already been proven against hypervelocity targets.

 

BangaliBabu

Regular Member
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
706
Likes
1,957
Country flag

missile
Agni-1 ballistic missile RV detonation


So, what's scary about this damp and grainy GIF image?
Nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles have different detonation mechanisms depending on the type of target they are fired at. Earth penetrating nuclear warheads are used against deep-buried hardened targets. Against 'exposed soft targets', the warhead is rigged to detonate at a certain altitude to maximize the radius of destruction. These 'exposed soft targets' are usually cities. The image is of an airburst test of Agni-1 RV. Airburst fusing has its own set of challenges. An RV flies at several times the speed of sound, fusing has to be precise or the RV would miss the detonation window. Against a city, it would hardly matter but it would have a serious impact on kill probability if the target is hardened, for example. a missile silo.
Anyway, airburst nuke: One moment you are like "Aw look... a shooting star" and next moment you are either vaporized or burnt to crisp or burnt and blind depending on how far you were from the detonation.
It's a good thing that the Indian government decided to stop displaying nuclear missiles in the Republic Day parades. For one, they are a weapon designed to kill millions, nothing to be proud of, and second, India had been negotiating a nuclear deal with Japan when the decision to not showoff nuclear weapons was taken....."hide the nukes."



BMD cometh?


missile, BMD, interceptor
AAD intercepts a target missile


Here is an interesting video of an AAD missile engaging a Prithvi TGT missile (Dhanush modified to mimic a number of trajectories). So far the interceptor missile has been reliable. It would make quick work of most short to medium-range missiles. As of medium to long-range targets, the Kinetic Kill Vehicle of the PDV has matured significantly. The PDV interceptor will be put through more rigorous tests once the floating test range is commissioned. It has already been proven against hypervelocity targets.

Our own counter-force methods to a NBC provocation. After so long, it's coming out though it's just a drop in the ocean of our missile program..........
 
Last edited:

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top